Electric Supercharging

[nzhunter]

Hi,

I've been looking around for a while now at different options of getting even more power out of my n/a 1JZ-GE

1. The first and most obvious way was a turbocharger, this is especially made easy as the 1jz comes out turbo manifolds etc are already avaliable. But a downfall is the engine will be always boosting, and with todays fuel prices..... well

2. Secondly, supercharging using engine driven power. I was looking at using a 4age s12 supercharger and putting where my air cond compressor is as I dont have air cond. This particular superchager has an electirc clutch meaning you can turn the charger on and off, so only using when needed. As well supercharging gives better power at low revs unlike a turbo.

3. Thirdly, Electric supercharging. I only came across this today so pretty much know nil about it bar it uses obviously electric power to charge. I found two sites on them:

Thorton Electric Superchargers

E-Ram Supercharging


Now the E-Ram clains up to 1 psi boost using this little fan in the air intake (f*ck knows how this can actually have enough power to compress air) But shows very easy installation.

The Thorton Claims it can give up to 8psi boost, wheather it actually does, I don't know.


But If anyone could enlighten me on electric supercharging, or know someone who has tryed it that would be great. I'm sure others on this site would be interested in this sort of thing too.


Cheers, DAN

[Steve_t647]

The fan only works on intake restricted cars, it works by negating the intake resistance, used in some boats where they are low down in the engine bay and a long intake up in the fresh air. They are useless in an automotive performance aspect.

Supercharger on that type of revvy motor is useless too, it gives low down torque but is not efficient above 4500 rev's (at least for the cheap toyota ones in your engine capacity, and you will have to look back through the forum to try calculate the pulley size (I posted the math a bit back).

Turbo is really the best way to go it gives you the top end performance you would be looking for, is easy enough to bolt up and you can set the boost you want through a boost controller rather than change a crank pulley.

The question is where do you want the power off the start line? or through the higher part of rev range? (turbo starts to produce useful boost from about 3) and power all the way to red line.

Supercharger produces power early and fades off about 4k rpm and possibly negativley affecting performance at the topend, there are more expencive units that are more efficient but the costs jump.

[Steve_t647]

Forgot to say the SC12 (1.2 litres of air per revoloution) is too small it was too small for the 1600 it was fitted to really the SC14 is the better one (1.4 litres per revoloution but again small capacity air flow so it only works lower in the rev range.Realistically you need to go to a 1.8 liter per rev for your engine, Toyota doesn't make one but some american companies do.

[tpft]

a lot of thoose electric superchargers use motors very similair to the one cooling your computer,
pure utter gimick, takes power to make power.
200 hp will need 20-50 to run the blower (pure estimations) need pretty big electic motor to get that power and rpm

heaps of cheap blowers around

[Flash2004]

I have a spare Lysholm AX1400 screw type blower which is made in Scandinavia and sold in the USA as a Whipplecharger. I bought it for my 4.0L Jeep before I discovered it was too small for it. Not sure what size your engine is but the yanks use these to wake up their 2.4-2.6 4 cyl engines and the power gains are impressive. Its one of the blower types mentioned above which doesn't lose efficiency as the revs build and Lysholm claim its the most efficient design out there. But then they would say that wouldn't they? so it probably would work on a Toyota. Teflon coated screws, RPMS capable up to a sustained 18,000 with bursts to 20,000 and rated to about 22psi (from memory, it could be higher) Its new, unused and I can supply whatever diameter pulley you calculate you need for it. Its possible you might be able to graft an AC pump electric clutch to it. Very compact in size, no manifolds included. If you want it, its cheap. PM me. cheers

[Bulletproof]

I looked at the option of using an electrical supercharger because a number of big trucks use them to give them boost from idle until theirs turbos kick.
But unless you have a 24 volt system they are not very good and the trucks still use a turbo for top end.

They still take a lot of power away from the motor because of load on the alternator but then every supercharger absorbs a lot power to drive.

richard

[KiwiBacon]

Here's an excellent post discussing the merits of electric superchargers. Fark it's funny.
If you can't spot the sarcasm there, then you deserve to be parted from your hard-earned cash.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic141354.php

Basically the power needed to supply an engine with forced induction is far beyond what a 12v power system can supply.
The turbo on my 4wd (4L diesel, 20psi boost) produces up to 25 kilowatts of power. The average 240v house can't supply that much power.

[Smurf]

Here's an excellent post discussing the merits of electric superchargers. Fark it's funny.
If you can't spot the sarcasm there, then you deserve to be parted from your hard-earned cash.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic141354.php

Now there is some darn good ideas in there....

[Steve_t647]

If you want more power and easy power then a push button 20HP Nos shot may be all you need, yes you need to keep refilling the bottle but the costs with the number of bottle fills you have could be cost effective, You can have heat issues running lean and other issues and cause a piston melt down but like anything done right it is power at the press of a button when you want it.

Personally I don't like NOS because I have seen a backfire up into the intake (Was carbed, EFI may handle it better as it wont add fuel in both directions) I am only prepared to loose my eyebrows and fringe once. NOS does make a lot of heat so depending how much you use it a newer radiator may be needed.

Personally a turbo or supercharger at 8psi, the electric fan's in a large turbo diesel help take some of the lag out of the turbo their intakes are long and when the turbo suck's it can make the intake low pressure giving boost then a flat spot while the intake catches up and then away again this electric fan is to keep airflow and the turbo spinning a little more during those long gear changes (at least this was how I was told the truck system worked).

[Jezza]

Personally a turbo or supercharger at 8psi, the electric fan's in a large turbo diesel help take some of the lag out of the turbo their intakes are long and when the turbo suck's it can make the intake low pressure giving boost then a flat spot while the intake catches up and then away again this electric fan is to keep airflow and the turbo spinning a little more during those long gear changes (at least this was how I was told the truck system worked).

What trucks have those fitted?

[Steve_t647]

I don't know of anything that has them here, they are usualy on big trucks and comercial stuff more common if working at altitudes. The trucks a friend drives with the system are german, most over there use something like this he said even some of the russian stuff uses it too (he is over there training his partner is german and he is a diesel mechanic) the other thing they do is reduce emissions (I guess off boost or they mix the fuel better or something) but the truck's over there have 3 tanks 1 diesel 1 LPG and one eurea (sp) all for emissions. Some of the big earth moving stuff may have the system over here but there are a few diesel boats with them basically to overcome the length of tube they suck air through.

In a diesel turbo you would get better performance from LPG Fumigation, it has the same effect as NOS I have been told I never got motivated enough to give it a go. Oh and to give the electric option a real chance you would have to get a bigger alternator for sustained current, better batteries (the fan will have to draw a lot of current for a long time) and at night you would be drawing from batteries I am pretty sure so the 5hp (I am being optimistic) minus the heat loss the alternator loss and the air resistance loss (you are putting a fan in the airflow bigger fan less blockage more power to spin) would be so minimal to not be felt in performance, in fuel economy maybe the extra load could help emissions and the fan mix the air but I am sure all the car manufacturers will have thrown the idea out for a reason and stuck with turbo's.

Oh and he said the difference in driving a truck with ti working and without it working (A bird built a nest in an intake) really is only felt after the 3 - 5 seconds between gearchanges working builds boost earlier but again you are talking seconds.

[KiwiBacon]

Devices like the garrett E-booster are only working (as Steve said) to reduce emissions and give enough airflow to wake up the turbo a little sooner.

To get 1hp from 12v requires over 60 amps and 1hp goes nowhere in a pump feeding air to an engine.

[worthog]

When my Nissan was a diesel I fitted one of these http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/ which gave it a real boost when you wanted it. Knew another Nissan owner with it fitted too, but he has since moved to Aussie

Sold my unit when I fitted the chevy, and I dont think the new owner has installed it yet (after 3 years) think he probably has forgotten about it

[KiwiBacon]

When my Nissan was a diesel I fitted one of these http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/ which gave it a real boost when you wanted it. Knew another Nissan owner with it fitted too, but he has since moved to Aussie

Sold my unit when I fitted the chevy, and I dont think the new owner has installed it yet (after 3 years) think he probably has forgotten about it

Power, certainly. But it's not good for your engine.

[WACKO]

dont know anything bout elec superchargers so cant comment.

turbos... when your not putting your foot down your not using much more gas. so they arnt as bad as you think. one of my freinds had a supercharged levin, then took the s/c off and put on a turbo. fuel consumption droped considerably. with a supercharger you are constantly turning it (off the crank) so it will always have to feed in more gas. with a turbo you put your foot down, more gas gets forced out of the engine forcing the turbo to go faster causing more gas to go in to compensate.

if you were to go supercharged id look into getting differant cams to drop the useable power down in the rev range. also unless you are getting an aftermarket computer its best to keep the psi down. 4psi doesnt sound much but on a N/A engine it will make a huge differance.

you could also look into doing a twin turbo conversion. a smaller turbo that kicks in early and a bigger one to take over when it runs out of puf. get it right and you can have a nice smooth powerband right accros the rev range.

Sam

[Bulletproof]

dont know anything bout elec superchargers so cant comment.

with a supercharger you are constantly turning it (off the crank) so it will always have to feed in more gas.

Sam

This not always correct because alot of superchargers have an electro magnetic clutch so only the pulley is turning.

Richard

[WACKO]

dont know anything bout elec superchargers so cant comment.

with a supercharger you are constantly turning it (off the crank) so it will always have to feed in more gas.

Sam

This not always correct because alot of superchargers have an electro magnetic clutch so only the pulley is turning.

Richard

yeah true forgot bout that. the toyota sc12/14s do, but any others? what bout holden v6 superchargers? i think they do aswell...

Sam