Offroad-Express

There is currently a subject on the best types of hooks to use, because hooks can either bent or break.

I believe a lot of the trouble is the kind of rope or recovery strap that is being used and this causes hooks to bend or break.

Most ropes dont have enough stretch in them.
Alot of people I see on club trips use polyester rope because it is cheap. I reckon you might as well use a piece of chain as there is next to no give and shock loads the hooks.

Many of the recovery straps are not much better. They might roll up nice and tidy in the truck but every accident I have seen involves one. They are very suspect to damage as they are dragged over rocks.

I use 24mm nylon and replace it every year or two and the ease it makes of recovery without any effort makes the extra money spent well worthwhile. It doesn't get damage very easy and doesn't shock load the hooks.

Here is a video of polyester verses nylon.

The first 2 attempts are with the polyester and you will see the stuck truck didn't move a mil. and all the shock load is on the hook.
The second shows we change to my nylon rope and the stuck truck moved forward without the shock on the hook.



Richard

That nylon rope does have a lot of stretch.
So can you easily tell the difference looking at them?
How would I know if I am buying polyester or nylon rope?

Bulletproof wrote:There is currently a subject on the best types of hooks to use, because hooks can either bent or break.

I believe a lot of the trouble is the kind of rope or recovery strap that is being used and this causes hooks to bend or break.

Most ropes dont have enough stretch in them.
Alot of people I see on club trips use polyester rope because it is cheap. I reckon you might as well use a piece of chain as there is next to no give and shock loads the hooks.

Many of the recovery straps are not much better. They might roll up nice and tidy in the truck but every accident I have seen involves one. They are very suspect to damage as they are dragged over rocks.

I use 24mm nylon and replace it every year or two and the ease it makes of recovery without any effort makes the extra money spent well worthwhile. It doesn't get damage very easy and doesn't shock load the hooks.

Here is a video of polyester verses nylon.

The first 2 attempts are with the polyester and you will see the stuck truck didn't move a mil. and all the shock load is on the hook.
The second shows we change to my nylon rope and the stuck truck moved forward without the shock on the hook.


Richard

yeah the so called snatch we are drummed in to using have a 20% stretch, now by my calcs a 9m strop with 20% should stretch 1.8 metres, havent seen one do that yet but have seen them break. please feel free to correct me if my calcs arnt correct

just to be clear are you talking about this sort of thing, http://4wdbits.co.nz/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=132

and not to use these?? http://4wdbits.co.nz/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=47 or these http://4wdbits.co.nz/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=45

and not that i disagree with you about the ropes, (i have pretty much always used the flat type snatch master strops but am keen to try anything safer/ gives better results) but were the ropes in the video the same lenght, it looks like the second one was longer allowing the vechicle to get up onto the flat ground, get better traction and get more speed on the run up
if they are the same lenght rope then that nylon stuff stretches way way more and im keen to buy and try some

rangimotors wrote:it looks like the second one was longer allowing the vechicle to get up onto the flat ground, get better traction

thats what i had noticed.. more like a lesson in carryin varied length strops perhaps?

prone to breakage is always a factor but recoil when they go? whats that like?

rangimotors wrote:and not that i disagree with you about the ropes, (i have pretty much always used the flat type snatch master strops but am keen to try anything safer/ gives better results) but were the ropes in the video the same lenght, it looks like the second one was longer allowing the vechicle to get up onto the flat ground, get better traction and get more speed on the run up
if they are the same lenght rope then that nylon stuff stretches way way more and im keen to buy and try some

The nylon one may have been a little longer but the fact is the polyester didn't stretch where the nylon stretched about a third of its lenght making it look a lot longer and used the kinetic energy to do the job.

The other advantage of a round rope is that it fits right down in the hook where the strops can get hooked up on the point of the hook pulling in the wrong place.

Richard

i,ve used ropes and flat strops.i carry a 5 metre rope from cooks (cooks recovery rope ,nylon from memory).and it is the shit when i need a snatch.ive found these ropes to visably stretch whereas the strops its hard to see them stretch.i use the strops to make my rope longer if needed but the rope is (in my opinion with 18 yrs 4wding and trialing) the best snatch strap around . the downside is because they stretch so well the mud gets into the plait easier and is hard to get out .my strops and rope get a good waterblast after any use on a trip but the ropes need replacing more often (every couple of years due to mud stopping them stretching)they are a bit dearer than strops but i will still prefer the rope over the strop any day due to the less shock loading.thats my two cents worth anyway

I have a 10m rope which the manufacturer states have 20% strectch. I then have a 10m cookes snatch strap... the 10m rope is my preferred recovery tool. It seems to just work 'better' than the snatch strap.

Having been co-driver with hosehustler for quite a few river trips the only poly rope I have is a 2M , specifically for river recoveries where someone needs to be standing on your rear bumper/front bonnet to attach ropes.

Bulletproof wrote:I use 24mm nylon and replace it every year or two and the ease it makes of recovery without any effort makes the extra money spent well worthwhile. It doesn't get damage very easy and doesn't shock load the hooks.

Well done to Bulletproof. You don't hear many people talking of replacing their ropes but they only have a limited life and need replacing regularly.
Nylon rope has the shock absorbing qualities required for recovery where as polyster and polypropelene do not have sufficient (or any) stretch to avoid shock loading the hooks. Nylon straps have some stretch but not to the same extent that the rope does and also the stitching limits the amount of stretch.

Yes poly ropes are used in the South Island rivers because they float but they shouldn't be used for snatch recoveries.

OK, so nylon ropes of about 24mm sound good.

What is the best length to get and is it best to get the loops spliced into it or does anyone use the bowline type knot to shorten it to the required length for the santch? If using the bowline (or similar) knot I would envisage the running end being taped (or tied) back to the working length and then any excess bundled up out of harms way on either vehicle.

Windsock wrote:OK, so nylon ropes of about 24mm sound good.

What is the best length to get and is it best to get the loops spliced into it or does anyone use the bowline type knot to shorten it to the required length for the santch? If using the bowline (or similar) knot I would envisage the running end being taped (or tied) back to the working length and then any excess bundled up out of harms way on either vehicle.

I buy 7metres of 24 mm nylon from a fishing net maker and they splice both ends leaving me with about a 6 metres of rope.
I find that a good length for most recoveries.

Other people make prefer a different length.

I also carry 30 metres of polyester because over a big distance you dont want too much stretch.I Also I have a have a 50 metre polyester for testing huge rivers.

Cheers Richard

Cheers Bulletproof,

Just looked at the Steel & Tube rigging catalogue. 24mm Nylon rope has a break load of 12000kg - impressive.

Any feedback from anyone on shortening the rope whilst snatching with the bowline knot?

if you use a knot in the rope it will weaken it by about 45%- 50% an also the know "even the bowline" will bind up so tight it wont undo.

i use ropes all day out on the boats that i hve to drive for a living an each time a drive ties a knot when i dont see it , that rope is then cut up an respliced.

jono

red-devil wrote:if you use a knot in the rope it will weaken it by about 45%- 50% an also the know "even the bowline" will bind up so tight it wont undo.

i use ropes all day out on the boats that i hve to drive for a living an each time a drive ties a knot when i dont see it , that rope is then cut up an respliced.

jono

Thanks Red-devil & Bulletproof,

Thought the knot may bind under the load of a snatch but needd to hear it from someone whe been there done that (better than me trying to find out later in the mud! ). Cheers also for the weakening info, had no idea it'd be that much so thanks again. Next time I am at Steel and Tube I'll buy 7 or so metres of this stuff and get them to loop it.... and hopefully never need it