Offroad-Express

Hi all just wanting to know your thoughts and tips for steel winch cable and safety,things like steel splinters and cable snapping and the re-coil dangers
also im wondering will the shear pin go before the cable snaps

How much load can steel cable cope with?

pros and cons of steel cable VS synthetic rope

Like everything, the life of steel cable depends on how it is treated and used. They will crush and will break strands and will snap. If a heavily loaded steel cable snaps, then there will be some recoil as the wire does stretch a little. Which direction the loose end goes is hard to predict and can depend again on many variables.
A shear pin will only work if it is the right rating for the purpose, some people use pins that may never shear!

How big is the wire you have in mind? It comes in a variety of sizes and steel types.

Winch rope is practical for many purposes as it is strong when new and has low stretch along with a low weight so when it breaks it usually has few dramatic effects. It can squeeze turns between other turns on the winch drum under load which can make unspooling tricky but overall, if treated with care and kept clean it is good stuff.

If the cable is in good condition, the shear pin will go before the cable breaks on a steady pull. Shock loading is the most likely cause of a break (if you are driving while winching and the tyres loose traction so the truck lurches backwards).

Steel cable pro's:
Cheap
needs less maintenance

Cons:
Throw the whole thing away if it breaks or gets kinked / crushed
Whiplash danger (OK if you use appropriate techniques & ALWAYS use a cable dampener)
Sprags to tear your hands apart (ALWAYS use leather gloves)


Symthetic pro's
Safer if it breaks (little or no whiplash)
Can be easily spliced if it does break
Easier handling
Less weight

Cons:
Cost
Deteriorates with UV (depending on brand)
More susceptible to chafing
Jams up on the drum (especially if spooled on loosely)
Heat sensitive (depends on winch design)

There's probably a few others...
In my opinion, steel cable is fine for most uses except competition. It just requires more time and caution to use safely.

i have some pretty ruff steel cable on my pto that im wanting to replace,hence the post of this thred to see what others think.i like the steel cable because of its long life if treated well.

Go and buy yourself an overbraid synthetic cable and see the difference for yourself.... I'd never go back to handling steel cable

zookfest wrote:i have some pretty ruff steel cable on my pto that im wanting to replace,hence the post of this thred to see what others think.i like the steel cable because of its long life if treated well.

It all depends on the type of 4 wheeling you do. On winch challenges and getting out out of bogs you want synthetic rope because it is safer and more user friendly ,but if you do what I do ,clearing and opening new tracks you need steel.
You cant drag 1 metre beech trees out of the way on river boulders with synthetic rope unless you carry chain or steel as well, Thats why I stick to the steel.

Richard

That said Richard, we do know a couple of guys running synthetic on our trips and it will be interesting over time to see how they go. I personally prefer steel as well at the for the reasons you have just said. I have snapped three steel cables over the years I have been out bush, two straight pull and one double line. All have broken within the closest third to the vehicle and when used with a dampner they have always pulled down towards the winch and straight back towards the pull. That's just been my observation. I was on a recent trip and dampners weren't used alot. I was well clear in all directions in this case. I always use dampners and do not believe in driving on the wire ropes secondary to the shock loadings.
Al

For anyone who is aware or the steep bank down to the Little Totara on the tailings track.

Quite a few people won't drive it and are lowered on a winch. Twice now that I know of the synethic rope has started to smoke and broken because of getting hot from the brake and the ones on the end have unexpectedly dropped to the bottom which is quite dangerous.

Another minus for the synethic rope.

Cheers Richard

How safe you consider electric and pto winches for lowering, especially down vertical slopes. When Tim and I did the chasm from the Grey with JR, I prefered lowering on the tirfor (thinking it more safer considering it is rated to winch unimogs 11mm cable) down that vertical slope. Hard work (especially in summer) but piece of mind all the same in my opinion.
Al

Bulletproof wrote:For anyone who is aware or the steep bank down to the Little Totara on the tailings track.

Quite a few people won't drive it and are lowered on a winch. Twice now that I know of the synethic rope has started to smoke and broken because of getting hot from the brake and the ones on the end have unexpectedly dropped to the bottom which is quite dangerous.

Another minus for the synethic rope.

Cheers Richard

alot of newer winches house the brake in the cone of the winch eliminating most of the heat build up

Bulletproof wrote:For anyone who is aware or the steep bank down to the Little Totara on the tailings track.

Quite a few people won't drive it and are lowered on a winch. Twice now that I know of the synethic rope has started to smoke and broken because of getting hot from the brake and the ones on the end have unexpectedly dropped to the bottom which is quite dangerous.

Another minus for the synethic rope.

Cheers Richard

i would say that is a minus for an electric winch that has a brake in the drum mate. the winch causing rope to smoke is not the ropes downfall.

Sadam_Husain wrote:Go and buy yourself an overbraid synthetic cable and see the difference for yourself.... I'd never go back to handling steel cable

X2

best thing i ever did was replace my 13mm steel cable with some Dynex Dux overbraid. so much better in so many ways

wopass wrote:i would say that is a minus for an electric winch that has a brake in the drum mate. the winch causing rope to smoke is not the ropes downfall.

When I was reading about synthetic winch rope before buying, I read that the most modern synthetic ropes can withstand much higher temperatures than the early stuff.

wopass wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:For anyone who is aware or the steep bank down to the Little Totara on the tailings track.

Quite a few people won't drive it and are lowered on a winch. Twice now that I know of the synethic rope has started to smoke and broken because of getting hot from the brake and the ones on the end have unexpectedly dropped to the bottom which is quite dangerous.

Another minus for the synethic rope.

Cheers Richard

i would say that is a minus for an electric winch that has a brake in the drum mate. the winch causing rope to smoke is not the ropes downfall.

Im not blaming the rope but the truth is that over 90% of trucks have the brake in the drum. I have the latest Warn 9500 ti and that still has the brake in the drum even though warn have moved 1 planetary gear to the motor end to reduce drum speed and reduce heat.

Here is a clip of one of the two times the synthetic broke which is quite dangerous. Notice the rope smoking under strain.



Cheers Richard

At thte start of the clip, is that steam coming off the rope?

Any breaking winch cable is dangerous whether its steel or synthetic or anything else, if theres smoke coming off the rope its just plain dangerous to keep on going?

Sadam_Husain wrote:Any breaking winch cable is dangerous whether its steel or synthetic or anything else, if theres smoke coming off the rope its just plain dangerous to keep on going?

What option have you once you commit yourself to a 100ft bank ? This has happened 2 times now that I know of.

Richard

If its smoking you stop and let it cool down or work out plan B before it lets go and things turn to custard or worse?

I didnt look at the video coz it takes a wee while on my dialup so I'm only going on the cable smoking comments?

I could be wrong, and would say it was steam, as it is raining, just wondering if that was the case or not.
Was the winch used previous to this, as it may be heat from the radiator transferring to the top layer of the rope?

May not have taken much to have steam come off being wet and cold, thats IF it is steam to start with

DaveM wrote:I could be wrong, and would say it was steam, as it is raining, just wondering if that was the case or not.
Was the winch used previous to this, as it may be heat from the radiator transferring to the top layer of the rope?

May not have taken much to have steam come off being wet and cold, thats IF it is steam to start with

Hi Dave
It was raining quite hard and it may have been steam. The facts that I do know is that 2 synthetic ropes have broken.
Scotty from Nelson was involved in the other breakage.
The truck belonged to Stephanie Rouse and Vic drove down the bank who you must know because he belongs to the Blenheim Club

Cheers Richard

I have always used steel rope, never tried the synthetic.
For the amount I would use my winch when I get a new one, I'll stick with steel, and I think it would last longer for log dragging in firewood season down the Clarence

Bulletproof wrote:. The facts that I do know is that 2 synthetic ropes have broken.
Cheers Richard

what type of synthetic rope was it, how old was it etc ? im guessing it was well used and a lesser cheaper brand ?

wopass wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:. The facts that I do know is that 2 synthetic ropes have broken.
Cheers Richard

what type of synthetic rope was it, how old was it etc ? im guessing it was well used and a lesser cheaper brand ?

You may be right. I have no idea about the answer to any of these questions.

Richard

wopass wrote:what type of synthetic rope was it, how old was it etc ? im guessing it was well used and a lesser cheaper brand ?

We all know any winch cable can break regardless of whats its made of, typically a synthetic rope will have a higher breaking rating than a steel rope of the same diameter, without knowing the history of the ropes and how they were being used you cant judge why they broke?

The overbraid ones are the better ones to use coz the UV dosent penetrate through the outer protective sheath like an unsheathed rope and the overbraid provides physical protection to the inner rope

A winch rope should be treated like a safety device and you dont put yourself at risk with dodgy gear because a failure could result in you or someone else being put at risk

A couple of other people I go with have broken their synthetic ropes half a dozen times and they are full of knots. They carry a new spare rope as well. So they are not as good as made out.

I have never broken a steel wire

Richard

Best we all go back to steel cables

Sadam_Husain wrote:Best we all go back to steel cables

Im not saying that. I think for ordinary club activities the synthetic is the answer but the two friends I referred to with all the breaks do track making and clearing and that is where I think steel is the answer.

It is horses for courses

Richard

Bulletproof wrote:A couple of other people I go with have broken their synthetic ropes half a dozen times and they are full of knots. They carry a new spare rope as well. So they are not as good as made out.

I have never broken a steel wire

Richard

You friends are not using a roller fairlead with the synthetic rope are they? For synthetic rope you have to use hawse fairlead. Anybody switching from steel to synthetic will have to incorporate that expense as well.

I agree with Richard, If I was planning on doing a lot of winching where the cable gets pulled along the ground, ie dragging trees, trucks etc then I would not have gone for synthetic. I will go back to wire if I start doing that.

Watched a steel cvable in relatively good nick snap on the weekend at Kopara that was being dragged through the ground. I personally prefer putting a piece of wood between the ground and rope.
Al