1KZ surf transformed to Coil SAS club truck

[hosehustler]

I've had this project on my mind ever since I went to haast in June with Al.
One of the chaps there had a 4-door IKZ surf, prado SAS'd, dual lockers, moddest lift and running 33 inch tyres.
It went bloody well, did everything they were all doing (and some).
While we were away at the Bulletproof chasm, Subaru hill, and other tracks Mike's surf went pretty good too and considering it's still IFS......... very surprising .
The old surf I had was nothing short of awesome off road, but as for getting the wife and kids in and out it was a nightmare, it's long gone anyway
I sourced a complete Prado front end off Lanny a few weeks ago, 4.88 high pinion diff, and yesterday I picked up this Surf, its got a 1kz in it with a new head installed, needs a new exhaust system, although it needs a little TLC it's tidy enough considering it's just going to get the bush treatment, has no WOF, reg is on hold.....so it's the perfect start.


The plan is pretty simple....build a good all rounder club truck, it's going to have Prado SAS in front, dual lockers, 4.88 gearing, only lifted enough to run 33inch BFG's.

Although it has an ARB bar on it, and yes Fitzy they are the best looking bar on the market....I don't like them!, the winch is essentially "buried" and too often we need to get at them in the bush, the ARB bar will probably be replaced with one of these;

I will then build a tube bar off it and end up with something similar to what Bulletproof is running on his lux, and sticking to a low mount winch as well.
Its also going to get some sill protectors;


Will make up a custom rear bar/protection, and recovery points.
Once i've completed the coil SAS, it'll be off to get a new, eaier breathing exhaust sytem fitted, EGT guage, and will look into fitting a seperate trans cooler, I went auto this time just for a change, read and heard all the pro's and con's!!!


While it's not the beast the other thing was, it should fill the purpose of a good "club truck", wife and kids can be dragged along, and suitable for everyday use.

[kiwipete]

Sweet looking project truck there Tim, good on you.

[pajeroboy]

looks like a good one to do.sweet

[monaro427]

looks good tim i have one of those winch mounts on order from jafa and am just going to make bars of it aswell

[niblik]

there was a rig like this out at sheffield today tim.. went bloody well too...

[Mattman]

Will make a very capable truck. A stylish small Cruiser alternative.

I would love to do a SAS on my LN130. Who's doing the SAS conversion Tim?

Matt.

[hosehustler]

I would love to do a SAS on my LN130. Who's doing the SAS conversion Tim?

*Tim, and Rob (Dad)*

I'll be doing all the grinding, setting up etc, tack weld everything needed for SAS in place and then get a certified welder to do all welds, all other mods, locker install, diff build, oh forgot to mention, i'll be putting rear discs on again, they will be done by me, and winch bar, rear bar, will all be done by me as well, as you don't need to be a certified welder for those bits
Rock sliders are trail gear, i've odered from Jafa as can't make them for their prices

[NJV6]

Hi Tim, so your not going to worry about longfields or twins?

[hosehustler]

Hi Tim, so your not going to worry about longfields or twins?

Not this time, won't need longs with only 33's and an auto, and the Prado ones are stronger anyway. As for twin cases, i'm still thinking about that, I have a spare top shifting T/case, and there are parts available from Marlin crawler to match the gearbox to the trail gear adaptors that Jafa sells here in NZ, as they have the V6 surf (4runner there) in the states, but have to say at this stage I don't think i'll bother.
By the time ya pay for or make a crossmember, dual adaptor, R series adaptor, shorten rear d/s, lengthen fron d/s, cut up the floor.........can't be bothered

[mike]

Hi Tim, so your not going to worry about longfields or twins?

Not this time, won't need longs with only 33's and an auto, and the Prado ones are stronger anyway. As for twin cases, i'm still thinking about that, I have a spare top shifting T/case, and there are parts available from Marlin crawler to match the gearbox to the trail gear adaptors that Jafa sells here in NZ, as they have the V6 surf (4runner there) in the states, but have to say at this stage I don't think i'll bother

I wouldnt bother either, remember the okuku that time tim, you can drive the auto like a crawler for a while if you want. best of both worlds sure not the same, but as you state your not going all out on this one

Mike

[kiwipete]

Be good to see how you do your winch bars Tim. I had a wee run in with the WOF man this time around and they what to see more pedestrian protection on it for the next WOF.
So im up for ideas you see. And I want to raise the winch another 75 - 100mm too.

[albundy]

Glad to see your trip in My Nissan helped you with your idea Good one. You need to finish it by xmas.
Al

[Bulletproof]

I would love to do a SAS on my LN130. Who's doing the SAS conversion Tim?

*Tim, and Rob (Dad)*

I'll be doing all the grinding, setting up etc, tack weld everything needed for SAS in place and then get a certified welder to do all welds, all other mods, locker install, diff build, oh forgot to mention, i'll be putting rear discs on again, they will be done by me, and winch bar, rear bar, will all be done by me as well, as you don't need to be a certified welder for those bits
Rock sliders are trail gear, i've odered from Jafa as can't make them for their prices

Hi Tim
You dont have to be a certified welder for anything as long as you can demonstrate to the certifier you are a competent welder.I don't have a welding certificate but have done all mine. Including all the nissan suspension , cutting swivle hubs off the axles and rewelding them, cutting pan hard rods in half etc..
But if you would rather employ a certified welder dont let me influence you.

Cheers Richard

[hosehustler]

Last vehicle was all welded by me, the certifier was happy aswell, he had me write a letter stating all my experience and how I learnt to weld, which I didn't have a problem with, my only concern is that "if" there is ever a serious or fatal because of a weld failure of mine........makes ya think.

[hosehustler]

Has anyone here at ORE done a prado SAS on a road going vehicle before, as stated earlier in the thread i know of at least one, but i've heard the castor angle takes a little setting up, Rick informs me 5 degrees is the mark, but to obtain it may require heating up and reworking the radius arms?
I've found this thread on Pirate, is the Aussie Bunderra the same as a prado front end.....looks the same
Any confirmed knowledge would be appreciated

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... aussie+sas

[Jafa]

cut and rotate the knuckle balls

[Bulletproof]

Has anyone here at ORE done a prado SAS on a road going vehicle before, as stated earlier in the thread i know of at least one, but i've heard the castor angle takes a little setting up, Rick informs me 5 degrees is the mark, but to obtain it may require heating up and reworking the radius arms?
I've found this thread on Pirate, is the Aussie Bunderra the same as a prado front end.....looks the same
Any confirmed knowledge would be appreciated

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... aussie+sas

Hi tim
I think 5 degrees would be the upper limit. At that there could be a possibility of uncontrollable wheel shack.

My caster is 3.4 degrees and with out the steering damper it still shakes a bit. What I did was cut the swivle hubs off the end of the axle tube and rewelded them at the right angle . They are a spigit fit so the weld is only to locate them. You have to tack them well or the camber can be pulled out as the weld shrinks

Feel free to give me a ring .

Cheers Richard

[tallsam66]

Sames ones im in the process of ordering for my hilux....should be here in about 6 weeks or so.

[hosehustler]

What I did was cut the swivle hubs off the end of the axle tube and rewelded them at the right angle . They are a spigit fit so the weld is only to locate them. You have to tack them well or the camber can be pulled out as the weld shrinks

Feel free to give me a ring .

Cheers Richard

Hi Richard, I will ring, I take it from that post that it's just a matter of carefully grinding off the weld on the swivel ball and it will then come off the axle housing rather than chopping straight through the housing .
cheers
Tim

[Jafa]

Basically you got it Tim, I did mine the easy way, chucked the whole housing in the lathe and cut through the weld then stuck a bar through the kingpin holes and yanked on it to rotate the swivel balls, then re-welded them back up.




Instead of the lathe, you can cut through the outer thickness with a cutoff wheel. you want to cut through the 6mm outer layer, then your away

[rokhound]

Does anyone know what the factory hilux castor is st at?
And does any one know if there is a certain distance turned to turn = degrees turned?
Or do you have to have axle set up at ride height and measure it all on the truck.
Mine was all done willy nilly last time, and as I have a std beam axle surf sitting here, I guess I can measure angle now, and then just replicate it after the 4 link is finished. Be nice to know if there is a calc somewhere that can help do the job though

[Bulletproof]

Basically you got it Tim, I did mine the easy way, chucked the whole housing in the lathe and cut through the weld then stuck a bar through the kingpin holes and yanked on it to rotate the swivel balls, then re-welded them back up.




Instead of the lathe, you can cut through the outer thickness with a cutoff wheel. you want to cut through the 6mm outer layer, then your away

Hi Tim
What Jafa shows is the more professional way than what I did but is still the same thing. I cut mine with cutoff discs.

The main determining factor at the moment for you is what Radius arms you use

The reason I say this is if you use prado ones the tie rod will not be a problem as it will be above the radius arm and you shouldn't have to alter the castor. If you use Nissan radius rods then the tie rod is under the radius arm and the minimun caster that can be had is about 3.5 degrees.
There is a possibility you could run a tie rod like a cruiser at the front of the diff. So before you cut anything I would get the steering and radius rods sorted first.
The king pin angle is about 9 degrees which lowers or raises the wheel as you go from one lock to the other and if the castor is over 3 degrees the steering starts to get unstable especially with wider wheels. Thats why I say 5 degrees I think is too much.

On a hilux or cruiser with leaf spings the castor is only about 1 degree but these numbers mean nothing if you use radius arms. a nissan safari is 2.6 degrees I think.

Cheers Richard

[wjw]

The bundera is indeed a Prado. Would it be worth checking angles and stuff on my truck?

[Jafa]

Does anyone know what the factory hilux castor is st at?
And does any one know if there is a certain distance turned to turn = degrees turned?
Or do you have to have axle set up at ride height and measure it all on the truck.
Mine was all done willy nilly last time, and as I have a std beam axle surf sitting here, I guess I can measure angle now, and then just replicate it after the 4 link is finished. Be nice to know if there is a calc somewhere that can help do the job though

Factory caster is 1.5 degrees. I dunno how much rotation equals how much caster, as I used a jig and measured the difference on the diff face, but I'm certain theres a thread on pirate that says 1/4" rotation at the weld equals 5 degrees castor, need to confirm that tho
heres my jig

[NJV6]

The only difference between the early bundera arms and the prado arms you and I are using is the way they mount to the chassis - the early ones had the round bush like a Rangie.

If you were to measure yours Bill it probably wouldn't be accurate due to having the lifted springs which rotates it (of course this comment is null & void if caster correction bushes are in )

As I am trying to do mine with no engine, gearbox, or body present it would be best to leave it to the end at the final ride height I guess, the angles change quite a lot as the suspenion goes up & down.

I have another question - what is the easiest way to measure it have you guys found?

[Bulletproof]

I have another question - what is the easiest way to measure it have you guys found?

With the diff stting in the truck I used a 2400 straight edge on the concrete floor with a builders framing square through the top and bottom king pin centres. I then ran a round bar through the king pins and worked the degree lean back in mms over the distance of the top and bottom king pins on a calulator .
Over 600mm the height of a builders Square 1 degree 10.47mm , 2=20.95mm , 3= 31.44mm . Or over a 1 metre lenght it is 17.45mm.
Generally with radius arms the castor needs to be more than leaf springs because most travel is down and this reduces the caster angle. Therefore generally where leaves have 1-2 radius rods are 2-3 degrees . Things like chopper motor bikes are extreme but you can't do that with a truck because of the king pin angle therefore 5degree would really be at the upper limit.
This way there is no guess work.

Cheers Richard

[Jafa]

Ahh yes, that would be trigonometry, a long lost skill especially amongst the young apprentices these days .....but that's another story

[wjw]

I do have castor correction

[hosehustler]

I do have castor correction

How has it been obtained bill?

[wjw]

castor correction bushes