Offroad-Express

I'll start a thread here to collate info on 70 series Cruiser PTO winches.

I've pulled mine off and stripped it down. Reason: The lever to free-spool was seized and also it had just started leaking out the PTO shaft seal and dripping its gear oil over the ground at quite a quick rate. When I took it to bits there was water in the oil.

Earlier I had tried using penetrating oil to free the free-spool lever but had no success. The only way I could move it was by trying to swing a hammer between the grille and bull bar, which is not convenient on the field. Even once I had the mechanism off the winch I still was struggling to free it up, so decided it had to come to bits. I drove the locking pin out and then put it in the vice and belted the main lever shaft many many times with a big hammer and punch and finally got it out, a quick tidy up with sand paper and a slurp of oil got that freed up nicely. This lever also has a brake for the spool on it.

I also cleaned the body up and basically took it totally to bits. Decided to replace both bearings (PTO input and main Winch shaft) I reckon it would be fairly easy to to the PTO input with winch still in vehicle, but the main winch shaft needs every thing removes to get to.

Does any one off-hand know the sizes and/or part nos for these two seals - where is the best place to get seals like this from?

There will be some pics. Any info regarding these appreciated.

if you get them out intact ,take them to a bearing shop get them to match them up

coxsy wrote:if you get them out intact ,take them to a bearing shop get them to match them up

Yeah they are certainly still recognizable/measurable and I've put them aside to take with me.

Couple of photos

Here is the thing sitting on the bench, It's all very simple in there.


And this is the offending free-spool lever. I'm already looking forward to pulling the cable off the drum rather than waiting for it to slowly unwind.

The other thing that I found jammed up the dog clutch on mine was some burrs on the key. A few strokes with a file to clean up the edges of the key steel made a huge difference to how freely it could slide!

muddy wrote:The other thing that I found jammed up the dog clutch on mine was some burrs on the key. A few strokes with a file to clean up the edges of the key steel made a huge difference to how freely it could slide!

Ok thanks, the keys were quite a mess and had to be pryed out so I'll have to check that all slides smoothly as it goes back together.

I was in town today so went to hunt up seals to replace the PTO shaft input (the leaking one) and main winch shaft seal.

I went to SKF and they checked their stocks and said they could get the smaller one (PTO input) down from Auckland but the other they would have to try and track down overseas. I asked where else I could try, they suggested Seal Imports Limited (SIL) so I went and found them (New road not on map and new building not yet sign written ) They had both in stock and gave 25% discount making a total of only $11.90 for both. (And he gave $5 too much change which I set right at the time ) Good crowd to work with and very efficient (all their code numbers are the actual measurement of the seal - inner/outer/thickness).

I will get their details and also the seal measurements so it is here for reference for someone later.

fweddy wrote:I will get their details and also the seal measurements so it is here for reference for someone later.

Seal Imports Ltd
29 Nga Mahi Rd
Sockburn
Christchurch

03 341 8043

The PTO input seal is 28 x 43 x 7
The Winch shaft seal is 38 x 58 x 10

$11.88 incl. for both

make sure you dress the shaft around where the keys go as the turning force usualy leaves a minor bruise in the shaft, mine had them and was why the dog gear wouldnt slide as it was bound up on the bruises.

wopass wrote:make sure you dress the shaft around where the keys go as the turning force usualy leaves a minor bruise in the shaft, mine had them and was why the dog gear wouldnt slide as it was bound up on the bruises.

Yeah but you have huge winch!

nah - thanks - will address that and the keys themselves as muddy says. Appreciate the acquired knowledge.

hey thanks for putting in the time to post this thread and info fweddy as my winch seals are bugged and dumping oil
but now i know where to get them

zookfest wrote:hey thanks for putting in the time to post this thread and info fweddy as my winch seals are bugged and dumping oil
but now i know where to get them

No problem - that's exactly why I'm doing it as I like some details of how people get on doing these types of things. No use all of us running around doing research individually when others have done it anyway.

Have this all assembled now.



The dog gear moves freely now and hopefully there is no leaking seals. Also freed up the fairlead too as only one roller turned.

Just need to fit up, fill with gear oil and connect and wind winch cable.

And need to sort out the shear pin.

It had a broken shear pin when I got the truck and I've been running a succession of 4" nails. They do the job for pulling submerged Hyundais and dragging me out of soft shingle holes but really are too weak to pull when you really need it. I've snapped a number of them recovering other people that my mate's wee Chinese winch just knuckled down and pulled them out - so need to do something better.

I spoke to Just Cruisers, they suggested drilling it out a bit and fitting a bolt. Some one suggested ¼" bolt. Do I need to use the clear shank of the bolt and not the threaded bit? high or low tensile? Am I better to go to Toyota and get a genuine item? What are others running?

Also where it fits, the joint is quite sloppy. I imaging this would add to the problem of the shearing? or is this just the way it is?

Lots of questions...

I've been using a 4mm Grade 12 bolt as a shear pin, but I've broken it several times. I also have a lot of slop in the sleeve and I think this has contributed to the broken pins. It also makes it pretty rattly if you drive the winch above 2nd gear. I've recently drilled it out and put in a 6mm grade 5 bolt, and I'm carrying a couple of spares grade 8.8 in case it still keeps breaking. I haven't used it hard since...

Thanks Muddy - you are at about the same point as I am, let me know how you get on. Be keen to know if that seems satisfactory - would you mind going and getting real stuck and see if the shear pin breaks so I know if to go down that route

What are other pto winches here using? factory pin? or don't you use your winch

the factory pin is expensive and break easy. I'm currently using a drill bit that appears to be holding up, gave it a bit of a test in the weekend and it was all good. the next step will be to go to a capscrew and drill it out to fit.

fweddy wrote:I spoke to Just Cruisers, they suggested drilling it out a bit and fitting a bolt. Some one suggested ¼" bolt. Do I need to use the clear shank of the bolt and not the threaded bit? high or low tensile? Am I better to go to Toyota and get a genuine item? What are others running?

I use a 4mm cap screw and nylock nut - plus I have vowed to never accelerate again - to set the engine speed at 1200 to 1500 rpm in 1st or 2nd and to use a double pull for any but really easy winchs.

Come out to Hanmer for the Winch Challenge 1-2 Nov & you'll see how many times I have to replace the shear pin. 4 times at the last event we did here in Marlborough...

I'm a bit nervous about drilling out this 2mms bigger



I might go and have a chat to my uncle who works for a structures and engineering outfit - he might be able to help me out a bit.

that is what mine looked like b4 I drilled it out to 5mm to take the 4mm cap screw - worked ok doing this winch

Been down the same path. Even used a phillips screw driver when we ran out of shear pins. Screwdrivers days were numbered after that little performance.

I also drilled out the hole to fit a 5mm cap screw. Think is is graded as 12. Use the clear shank only to avoid an easy fracture starting around the thread. I'll try and take a pic of that first joint. I had mine rebuilt to sleave over the shaft that has the worm gear on it. Makes for a very snug fit and stops the rattles.

I reckon the 5mm cap screw is as big as I will go. Using a single line pull and driving to get front wheels over a log, the worm gear drove itself out of the housing. Apart from that they are bloody robust winches.

Jungle

Just watched the u tube footage. Christ thats slow on a double pull. Ha
Why have you set you truck up on such an angle to the recovery vehicle?
Did you have to stop and respool your winch rope every 10 metres?

Jungle

Jungle wrote:Just watched the u tube footage. Christ thats slow on a double pull. Ha
Why have you set you truck up on such an angle to the recovery vehicle?
Did you have to stop and respool your winch rope every 10 metres?

Jungle

deliberately slow - 1200rpm 1st gear - as I didn't want to do anymore damage to a $250,000 vehicle. Yes - could have been on a better angle - didn't have to re-spool

Classic. I think the driver may have done enough damage already. Don't think your high speed winching would have hurt it much. I don't usually go above 2nd gear for winching but will rev upto 3000 if not too much load on.

Was that the Hella Rally?

Jungle

Jungle wrote:Classic. I think the driver may have done enough damage already. Don't think your high speed winching would have hurt it much. I don't usually go above 2nd gear for winching but will rev upto 3000 if not too much load on.

Was that the Hella Rally?

Jungle

Yep - WRC car no 47 - we were only supposed to recover the Possum Bourne Rally vehicles - but got tasked to this one after the Rally of NZ truck couldn't get down the 70 metres - good to know about 2nd gear and 3000 revs - after breaking heaps of shear pins - I haven't wanted to over load the 4mm cap screw.

Appreciate your inputs. Seems 4-5mm cap screw is the go.

Also just been down to the engineering outfit to have a chat about it. We are going to start by getting the slop out of the joint then look at getting a cap screw in there.

How far did you sleeve it? Would appreciate a photo if you can.

Dropped into check on developments on the sleeving and cap screw at my uncle's work this week... a little progress made...

Never mind I have other things to do on the cruiser too so its not as though it is needed before getting it back on the road yet.

Picked up the worked on part with 5mm cap screw fitted and a couple of spares.

The main shaft was worn with a slop it had so its been milled down a little and a sleeve fitted to the other part. All ready to fit now.

10mm cap screw 12.9 grade no problems, rope or tree brakes before anything else... but i have a bit different winch to you guys

Well winch is all assembled and refitted, bars back on and cable wound up.... Ah just remembered, must open the oil filler to let it drain to level now that it is in. (I put the oil in before fitting as its a lot easier. I over-filled it a bit and will pull the filler bung out to let it drain back to that level. I'm presuming it is the correct level... If any one knows anything different let me know.)

Now all I need is to get the truck's disk brake conversion finished and go get stuck somewhere to test.

Loving the freed up free-spool going to save a lot of unravelling time and hopefully no more shear pin issues! Will report back on success or failure...