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south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:24 pm
by mazdamike
hay all i am looking into getting the lease on a pice of land out in hanmer. there are formed tracks on the land and i would like to create a 4wd park on it. I have been talking to rick at 4wdaccessories and have come up with some idears for the place but dont wana do it if noone is intrested in coming out.
ofcorse there will be a gate charge to cover deveping the place so big question is if we do it will ppl come
cheers mike
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:38 pm
by PR
Hell yea
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:40 pm
by Smurf
So long as you got places for tents? yep
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:53 pm
by mazdamike
that was the plan want camping and bbq area so keep the sedgestions on what u would like to see there and we will see where it will go
there is lots of mud and clay up there my idera was to stick so big rock pits and lots of bogs. there is already some deadmans in the ground so good winching areas too
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:00 pm
by fweddy
Its something that is needed in Canty. I was thinking along similar lines and had lots of ideas floating around in my head of possibilities and lots of impossibilities.
I knew it wasn't feasible to do it myself so went to plan B that never fails: Come up with a really good idea, formulate it well, then just wait a few months and some one will start doing it. And here you are!
Hadn't thought of Hanmer, was thinking closer to CHCH but it would most likely be a doable location provided you have some where to stay and basic facilities.
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:10 pm
by antsarooney
Sounds like a great idea.
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:11 pm
by mazdamike
i didnt find the land it found me i cant really afford to di it eather but im sick of the waimac lol and u only live once
pros on hanmer is it got shit loads of accomation and well the hot pools keep the wife happy and u get to play more right???
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:20 pm
by Smurf
You could pick up a few cheap 4wds and hire them out by the hour for the tourists.
Hanmer is more central in the top of the south island so potentially accessible by more people than just CH-CHers. I'd happily travel to Hanmer for a weekend.
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:42 pm
by Jerry
Fantastic Idea....
Putting on my Jerry Hat.....Things you may need to think about are OSH BS, some places have an "agreement" with OSH, if you don't have one then you may find yourself liable if something happens....
Need to look at any council etc BS as well, does the land purpose allow for recreational activity?, are there any environmental issues eg mud runoff into streams, drains etc. are there any fire ban issues, are there any buildings/sheds onsite? you may find its easier to "maintain" existing structures there rather than build new ones to get around any new compliance bs, check out the neighbours as well, will they have any objection to what you are doing (if you have them onside then theres potentially less issues with them complaining......
Consider open access or managed access, what basic saftey rules will you require (this may help form your osh plan), Will you need any fire/personal liabiality insurance?
The rules and regulations are different if you are using this as a commercial activity as opposed to inviting a group of mates around for a play....
Just some thoughts off the top off my head....
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:07 am
by albundy
Is this the same land we ran the Thermal Thunder 08 winch challenge on last year?
Al
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:15 am
by swampa
if it is for the sole purpose of 4 wheelin then i think it would be un economical, its a fair way from chch, and really, i dont think the south island has enough population base, if the property is used for somthing else and wouldnt be solely relying on 4wds for income, well, maybe. As stated already, osh, acc etc would be the biggest hurdle, the only way i can see around that is dont advertise, even on here, i'm sure they have spys everywhere, go through 4wd clubs saying you have a property, see what response they give, they may book a weekend,my guess is you may get a dozen or so vehicles a weekend, $30 to 50 per vehicle?
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:55 am
by Bulletproof
mazdamike wrote:hay all i am looking into getting the lease on a pice of land out in hanmer. there are formed tracks on the land and i would like to create a 4wd park on it. I have been talking to rick at 4wdaccessories and have come up with some idears for the place but dont wana do it if noone is intrested in coming out.
ofcorse there will be a gate charge to cover deveping the place so big question is if we do it will ppl come
cheers mike
It may appeal to townies just staying at Hanmer for a relaxing weekend but I dont think real 4 wheelers would be interested because Reefton ,Lake daniells and Dregeville is only an hour away .
Cheers Richard
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:20 am
by rokhound
Not sure if Ken Buchanan's widow still owns the camp ground in Loburn, but if she does, go and have a word with her about it.
Ken formed a series of tracks out there 15yrs ago. I wouldn't say it was a success, although he did hold some good events there. As it was only an adjunct to the camping ground though, it didn't matter to much.
If you have no capital to make this run off your own back, stay well clear of it.
Do your sums, you will need to allow for legislative issues, set up (you won't be allowed any sort of camping facilities with out an ablution block), advertising, professional fee's, ongoing running costs and of course you have to make money on top of your income as well. At a very loose guess, I would allow a minimum of $150k to get your self started. (unless some of these items are already on site).
Think about it another way, I estimate that you will need $300k turnover p/a, (and that won't give you a great income, but an okay one), if you are only doing the 4wd thing that equates to 190 odd paying customers (@ $30) every week of the year, or 10 000 clients p/a.
It might seem like I am putting you off, but you are better off being pissed off at me than loosing a amount of cash that you may never recover from. But hey, if you have the coin and don't care, go for it.
I have 10 acres just up the road in Hurunui that I have been think about doing this on, but it won't happen as there are far better opportunity's to direct cash at
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:47 am
by swampa
" I dont think real 4 wheelers would be interested because Reefton ,Lake daniells and Dregeville is only an hour away" .
there is no certainty in life, how long before doc or whoever see fit to close these areas because every man and his dog are going into these areas every weekend and hammering these areas, you guys talk about the future preservation of 4wd areas, in 10 or 15 years private property like the idea floated my well be the only places to use
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:02 am
by Swaney
I think its an absolutely great idea... but my thoughts would be for generating money you would need to tap the "tourist" market - hire out a few POS 4x4s with roll cages and let them go nuts in the mud. Doesnt Hamner Springs survive on tourists anyway?
I would definately head up and have a play - depending on cost of course.
Just my thoughts
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:09 am
by albundy
there is no certainty in life, how long before doc or whoever see fit to close these areas because every man and his dog are going into these areas every weekend and hammering these areas, you guys talk about the future preservation of 4wd areas, in 10 or 15 years private property like the idea floated my well be the only places to use
Dregeville and the part of lake daniels that Bulletproof is refering to is private land allocated for 4wd use. In relation to the tracks on DOC land, if you go into the CMS review that was undertaked a couple of years back and the results from that show that all of the tracks the 4wd community listed got approval as designated 4wd tracks. Doc didn't even know where most of them were until we told them. Alot of the tracks that are grade 1-3 are for shiny use mainly and get looked after and respected in my opinion. The other tracks alot of 4wdrivers do not have the skills nor the required vehicle to do them (eg the chasm track) nor do they know where they are. Most of the 4wd community actually look after tracks they travel on and do road build to maintain them in a suitable standard of use. I personally have rebuilt bridges over small streams and culverts that have been washed out to preserve the track and to stop the washouts becoming impassable.
This place would allow dudes to go and test their builds out, assist clubs with training days etc.
Al
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:15 am
by swampa
my thoughts were with the view that in 10 to 15 years land available now, may not be available then, even with the best intentions of the 4wding community, public land will most definitely be less accessible than it is now, and private land, or parks will be more of a necessity rather than a choice.
karam, my 2 cents worth
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:05 pm
by SMOKEY
Hi Mike, I like your enthusiasm and am certainly not going to try and dampen it. It must be a MIKE thing as Mike at Mt Lyford and Mike at Maruia have had the same idea.
THIRD TIME LUCKY,
FITZY.
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:55 pm
by Shane
there is already a 4wd park in hamner,dont know how much it gets used.
is quite pricey though $69 per vehicle.
what do the guys up north pay?
Shane
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:21 pm
by fweddy
There is no need to go towards a full on 4x4park for the public in initial stages. That would require on site staff etc all the time and big outlay.
Need to talk to the Welly crew regarding how Rallywoods works. That's not a real commercial type set up. I understand its jointly owned by a group of people and access is permitted for use. Who up there can shed some light on the set up there?
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:39 pm
by rokhound
fweddy wrote:There is no need to go towards a full on 4x4park for the public in initial stages. That would require on site staff etc all the time and big outlay.
Need to talk to the Welly crew regarding how Rallywoods works. That's not a real commercial type set up. I understand its jointly owned by a group of people and access is permitted for use. Who up there can shed some light on the set up there?
That is a very similar setup to the Lake Daniels venture, and is totally different to what was bought up initially on this thread.
This sort of setup could really take off and I believe in the future it will big time for the same reasons as Swamper has already alluded too.
Basically shares are sold in the venture and it is operated as a trust. You all contribute financially, and this lessens the load on any one person. The only issue with these is the bitch fighting that always seems to go on when a decent sized group of people become involved. Not something you will ever get rich out of, but it does give you the right to do with land what you (to a degree), and that has to be a good thing.
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:36 pm
by mazdamike
Shane wrote:there is already a 4wd park in hamner,dont know how much it gets used.
is quite pricey though $69 per vehicle.
what do the guys up north pay?
Shane
u are right there is one up there one and this is the same place it was never pushed and was over priced it is also the place where thurmal thunder is run and will be again this year as i understand.
i am looking into the hole osh thing at present and also the camping and what all the council b/s
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:22 am
by rangimotors
mazdamike wrote:Shane wrote:there is already a 4wd park in hamner,dont know how much it gets used.
is quite pricey though $69 per vehicle.
what do the guys up north pay?
Shane
u are right there is one up there one and this is the same place it was never pushed and was over priced it is also the place where thurmal thunder is run and will be again this year as i understand.
i am looking into the hole osh thing at present and also the camping and what all the council b/s
I think its a good idea to run it as a rallywoods/lake daniels type of place. Have you thought about calling the group of guys who looks after lake daniels to ask the in's and out's of the set up I'm sure they could offer some good advice.
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:31 am
by Sadam_Husain
fweddy wrote:Need to talk to the Welly crew regarding how Rallywoods works. That's not a real commercial type set up. I understand its jointly owned by a group of people and access is permitted for use. Who up there can shed some light on the set up there?
Rallywoods probably slips under the radar coz its been used for offroading since the days when they took their horses and carts up there for a blat around, I think any commercial 4x4 park would get caught up in all the resourse concent, osh, health and safety, noise control, facilities (aboultions as Rok said), management, safety plans etc and all that sort of prohibitive shit that modern society deals with. 
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:39 am
by PR
Sadam_Husain wrote:used for offroading since the days when they took their horses and carts up there for a blat around
Showing your age Sadam
I think something like Rallywoods down here would be good
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:42 am
by curly12
Sadam_Husain wrote:fweddy wrote:Need to talk to the Welly crew regarding how Rallywoods works. That's not a real commercial type set up. I understand its jointly owned by a group of people and access is permitted for use. Who up there can shed some light on the set up there?
Rallywoods probably slips under the radar coz its been used for offroading since the days when they took their horses and carts up there for a blat around, I think any commercial 4x4 park would get caught up in all the resourse concent, osh, health and safety, noise control, facilities (aboultions as Rok said), management, safety plans etc and all that sort of prohibitive shit that modern society deals with.
Rallywoods land use is gazzetted as a 4wd park and has been for over 30 years. It was used in the 70's for landrover to release new models to the dealers. Also used to film the hilux adverts with Barry Crump. The landowners have some funny stories to tell
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:44 pm
by Sadam_Husain
curly12 wrote: It was used in the 70's for landrover to release new models to the dealers. Also used to film the hilux adverts with Barry Crump. The landowners have some funny stories to tell
My current cruiser was Toyota New Zealands demonstrator for the first 2 years of its life and Steve Lacey told me he drove it up there for them a couple of times doing some TV commercials...... Farking glad they never let Crumpy get his hands on it 
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:15 pm
by Mocca
[quote="rokhound"]Not sure if Ken Buchanan's widow still owns the camp ground in Loburn, but if she does, go and have a word with her about it.
Umm,Ken's wife has been dead for a year or 2 now as well, Leigh camp was up for sale, not sure who ownes it now...
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:58 pm
by Dr_PC
rangimotors wrote:mazdamike wrote:Shane wrote:there is already a 4wd park in hamner,dont know how much it gets used.
is quite pricey though $69 per vehicle.
what do the guys up north pay?
Shane
u are right there is one up there one and this is the same place it was never pushed and was over priced it is also the place where thurmal thunder is run and will be again this year as i understand.
i am looking into the hole osh thing at present and also the camping and what all the council b/s
I think its a good idea to run it as a rallywoods/lake daniels type of place. Have you thought about calling the group of guys who looks after lake daniels to ask the in's and out's of the set up I'm sure they could offer some good advice.
A guy just out of Sydney about 8 years ago had all sorts of problems with the local councils and stuff when he opened up his 4wd park. So instead of being a 4wd park it became a place to have your picnics. forget what the cost was per Vehicle but then you were allowed to drive anywhere you liked on his posted/graded (1 - 5) tracks. had big maps on signs in the picnic area just insode the main gate
Re: south island 4wheerlers
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:17 pm
by rokhound
Mocca wrote:rokhound wrote:Not sure if Ken Buchanan's widow still owns the camp ground in Loburn, but if she does, go and have a word with her about it.
Umm,Ken's wife has been dead for a year or 2 now as well, Leigh camp was up for sale, not sure who ownes it now...
Is that right. It has been a long time since I stayed at Leigh Camp. Guess you will find it difficult getting info there then..........
But when Ken was alive, this place was well known by all club affiliated 4wd members (as was he), and he used to hold different events there throughout the year. It certainly never supported itself though, and was only the fact that the camp had some patronage (and Ken's passion) that it was ever opened.