Offroad-Express

Hey everyone.

Firstly, should give a brief run down. This escudo has been owned by my Father for about 10years, and been loads fun around Whangarei. Has been off the road and just a club truck since '07, and sitting in storage for the last year, as my parents got work in Te Anau, so we brought it to Christchurch a few months ago for my partner and I to use. No fun sitting in a shed!! I wish to improve the offroad capabilities. A lot more water involved down here!!

I have spent hours searching this forum on the best and most of all the cheapest way to gain height, and a lot keep referring to the cheap vitara lift posted by spanky.

All the threads here havn't shown before and after photos from the same angle, as they never get posted, so thought I would put my 2 cents in.

I have done the front mount flip, and have not yet sorted any rear shocks until I get the spring setup right. Tyres are 29" simex centipedes. Possibly be larger ones on the books at some stage.

Was able to source c33 rear springs($40), and VL commodore rear springs($40), as noted from most posts.


Original rear springs and the c33 rear springs


Original front springs and the VL rear springs.

The rears were a breeze to fit, and a perfect fit. Noted that the max extension of any replacement shock should be 590mm (center of eye-centre of pin) before the c33 spring comes loose. Def need to get some shocks sorted quick smart as they are practically sitting at full extension with these springs.

Which shocks? or any eye/pin shock thats not longer than 590mm extended?

The front took a little more but got there in the end. Undid the sway bar (which will be removed soon once we are all sorted) Undid the 3 bolts holding the ball joint to the A arm, and with a jack and a little muscle was able to separate them, and swing the whole hub forward to allow the arm to drop down, allowing the spring to fall out.


Fitted the VL springs and put everything back together. Now this is where I have come unstuck.

The VL springs are not a perfect fit at the top, and sit out slightly on one side from the seat.

Just got a WOF so good until September but will it be an issue for certification/next WOF? If so how can I fix it?
Are there any springs that would better suit?

Anyway, with this combo of springs, gained roughly 55mm height all round.
Goes to show there is a great depth of knowledge and experience on here.

Altho the rear certainly looks a lot higher than the front, and is by about 40mm?? not sure why and don't have a heavy bar or bumper on the front, should I even it up and how best would that be done?

Also the front camber is now an issue, which i knew it would be, how can that be fixed? Would a wheel alignment place be able to sort it? Was pulling off to the right beforehand so no doubt we needed one anyway.

So now what you have all been waiting for.


Before


After

Any help on all this will be greatly appreciated.

Daymo

Great work, thanks for the pics! How is the ride after your changes ? If I did these to my mostly onroad vitarra will it be much worse on-road ? Thanks

We fitted some vl springs a couple weekends ago. Had to heat and bend the top coil so it sit in the hat correctly. Didn't get it super red hot and didn't quench it so should be ok. The other problem was the seating on the bottom arm isn't perfect. It sits more towards the wheel than the engine. Unsure how to fix that atm but its drivable. The biggest problem currently though is that at full lock the brake calipers hit the coils and theres no brakes. Makes for an interesting drive.

O it was easier to undo the top of the shock and pull the cv rather than deal with that bottom arms bolts too.

It hasn't been done to the truck yet but I was told to try special bolts to counter the camber problem.....Can't remember the name at the mo. Noltec camber bolts maybe??

BUGGER ME!!!!!!! $95 + GST for 1 pair of camber bolts from Autolign. Any other ideas??

No worries. The only bolts i undid were the 3 on the arm, didn't touch the shock or CV at all. This same topic comes up again and again, but never found before/after pics and the problems they came across doing it.

Has huge positive camber, 20mm difference from plumb between top and bottom of tyre so havn't road tested it yet, and still need to find some longer shocks for the rear.

$50 on trademe for camber bolts. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 428588.htm

I have a set of VK commodore shocks for the rear of mine, they extend 50mm longer than the stock ones.

Have seen those camber bolts on Trademe, and look a lot like the ones i just saw at autolign, but the fitment?? Our escudo is a TA01R so not sure. surely they must all be the same '88-'95?

We had to pull the cv to get the arm down low enough for the spring to fit. Its fine on the road to at the moment its just that brake problem so check you don't have the same thing. Can get quite exciting if you don't realise. I think VK and or VL shocks work in the rear too. Daymo do you have factory front shocks at the moment. The one we did had the shocks very close to maxed in the front once the new springs were in. That might give an indication as to the height gain.

Just had a look at the brake calipers on full lock, and yes they do hit the springs. May have to limit the steering a bit by adjusting the stopper bolts on the steering arm i think.

And just thinking that the rear will drop slightly to even things up once we get some gear loaded up, so not worried about that anymore.

Do your springs not seat perfectly at the bottom? Was going to get new front pads so see how much travel that took out but your limiting the steering idea might be a goer. Do your 30's drag on the firewall?? I hammered it back a bit and flattened a couple seams to help.

Ill try stick some pics up of the springs for you if you want.

If I remember right the lower a arm is at a lower angle then it used to be and the spring is forced out in a curve rather than staright (as it was std). If you were to modify the lower arm spring seat (put in a wedge / cut and weld) so the spring base was flat / parallel to the upper mount then the spring shouldnt foul the calliper.

A couple of sites I found valuable a while ago for information.
Might not be current but gets ya thinking of options.

http://www.stumpy.me.uk/

http://www.k9rdj.co.uk/
look up the hagen widening mod fix as this talks about the caliper/spring contact.

Thanks. Might look into that widening mod, if it moves out about an inch may take care of the spring and get away without camber bolts for now.

I actually thought that the VL springs sat pretty good in the bottom mount, and put the slight curve out down to the fact that it isn't sitting flat at the top, and pushing higher on one side than the other. will keep you posted.

Just looked at the steering and its very easy to limit the steering a bit. Should be enough adjustment in it to fix it.

I had a set of spare arms here when I had my zuk and was thinking of welding a plate over the ball joint holes and redrilling them a little furthur out and forwards. Figured this would move it out (steering with wider tyres) and forwards (taller tyres not fouling the footwells) and could also sort out the camber to a degree. Of course this could bring the axle forwards and may cause contact with the spring (if it is behind the spring that is )

Has huge positive camber, 20mm difference from plumb between top and bottom of tyre so havn't road tested it yet, and still need to find some longer shocks for the rear.

In terms of camber correction, this may work for you....

http://www.zookpower.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=83091

I found it the other week when considering the same problem. I have standard springs with 30's and its got a bit of positive camber (no idea why).

I chose not to do anything about it at the mo, I'm looking to do the same as you first.

invest in a set of spring compressers-worth every cent!

Oh yeah, found this too, if you were good in the workshop this would help with the spring-bowing issue....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bentparts/427316480/

Thanks, no good with a welder and wasn't planning on hacking up the control arms just yet.

Thanks for the link Zooky. Positive camber all sorted!! Don't know why I didn't think of it. Saved myself some hard earnt beer $$$$ Now even have some negative camber which doesn't worry me. Not the daily driver and won't be clocking up huge kms, that's what we bought a transporter for

Just undid the top bolt of the hub/strut mount, tipped the hub down out of the way, and filed the strut hole back towards the strut only about 1-2mm. Figure that its highly unlikely to ever shift forward again with the spring pressure always pushing it back.

daymo wrote:Thanks for the link Zooky. Positive camber all sorted!! Don't know why I didn't think of it. Saved myself some hard earnt beer $$$$ Now even have some negative camber which doesn't worry me. Not the daily driver and won't be clocking up huge kms, that's what we bought a transporter for

Sweet as. So it worked well huh? Any chance you could post a pic of it to finish off the project.

The likely reason the back sits a bit higher than expected would be because of the weight difference between yours and a normal tin top. The owners handbook states 1135kg for the canvas top and 1259kg for the tin top... That's 115kg without the fact yours doesn't have the original roof or probably seats in the back(?)

daymo wrote:Thanks, no good with a welder and wasn't planning on hacking up the control arms just yet.

Thanks for the link Zooky. Positive camber all sorted!! Don't know why I didn't think of it. Saved myself some hard earnt beer $$$$ Now even have some negative camber which doesn't worry me. Not the daily driver and won't be clocking up huge kms, that's what we bought a transporter for

Just undid the top bolt of the hub/strut mount, tipped the hub down out of the way, and filed the strut hole back towards the strut only about 1-2mm. jacked up under hub to keep pressure back as I reinstalled the bolt, all sorted. Figure that its highly unlikely to ever shift forward again with the weight always pushing it back.

I did this exact same thing with an MR2 that I owned. Put a flat washer on each end of the bolt and tighten as before- make sure your camber is 100% right where you want it and take your time.

THEN- get someone to tack the washers into place over your oval hole to set the camber for good Your tacks do not need to be huge- just one on each side of the washer. It just means that it will never change and it will be problem free to set up again in the future.

That makes excellent sense. Will keep that in mind if we ever actually go as far as getting a proper wheel alignment done.

No rear seats or canvas top. just a tin lid polycarbonate rear window.

Going to pick up the rear shocks tonight. VN for $30 from trademe. Think they are about 60mm longer than standard, and VY are about 15mm longer still but the guys asking way to much for those ones. Found some monroe 4x4 shocks that are 590mm extended but that's right on the limit of the spring coming loose so playing safe and keeping it cheap for now.

flyingbrick wrote:I did this exact same thing with an MR2 that I owned. Put a flat washer on each end of the bolt and tighten as before- make sure your camber is 100% right where you want it and take your time.

THEN- get someone to tack the washers into place over your oval hole to set the camber for good

Eureka! even better again, and all for about 50c of parts and less than an hours labour.

flyingbrick wrote:

daymo wrote:Thanks, no good with a welder and wasn't planning on hacking up the control arms just yet.

Thanks for the link Zooky. Positive camber all sorted!! Don't know why I didn't think of it. Saved myself some hard earnt beer $$$$ Now even have some negative camber which doesn't worry me. Not the daily driver and won't be clocking up huge kms, that's what we bought a transporter for

Just undid the top bolt of the hub/strut mount, tipped the hub down out of the way, and filed the strut hole back towards the strut only about 1-2mm. jacked up under hub to keep pressure back as I reinstalled the bolt, all sorted. Figure that its highly unlikely to ever shift forward again with the weight always pushing it back.

I did this exact same thing with an MR2 that I owned. Put a flat washer on each end of the bolt and tighten as before- make sure your camber is 100% right where you want it and take your time.

THEN- get someone to tack the washers into place over your oval hole to set the camber for good Your tacks do not need to be huge- just one on each side of the washer. It just means that it will never change and it will be problem free to set up again in the future.

that is so BOOGIE....... might want to think about warrant unless its a bush truck

Escudo boy wrote:

flyingbrick wrote:

daymo wrote:Thanks, no good with a welder and wasn't planning on hacking up the control arms just yet.

Thanks for the link Zooky. Positive camber all sorted!! Don't know why I didn't think of it. Saved myself some hard earnt beer $$$$ Now even have some negative camber which doesn't worry me. Not the daily driver and won't be clocking up huge kms, that's what we bought a transporter for

Just undid the top bolt of the hub/strut mount, tipped the hub down out of the way, and filed the strut hole back towards the strut only about 1-2mm. jacked up under hub to keep pressure back as I reinstalled the bolt, all sorted. Figure that its highly unlikely to ever shift forward again with the weight always pushing it back.

I did this exact same thing with an MR2 that I owned. Put a flat washer on each end of the bolt and tighten as before- make sure your camber is 100% right where you want it and take your time.

THEN- get someone to tack the washers into place over your oval hole to set the camber for good Your tacks do not need to be huge- just one on each side of the washer. It just means that it will never change and it will be problem free to set up again in the future.

that is so BOOGIE....... might want to think about warrant unless its a bush truck

Are you saying its more boggie than just leaving a slotted hole?

If you have a better suggestion you should tell us all now, tom.

-Nathan

Ok got the shocks. What a deal! Monroe Sensatracs. Don't think they are standard?

As for the camber issue. It's only temp for now, and the down force from the spring actually keeps it all pushed back anyway. Just don't take too much out, and would hardly call it a slot. The head and nut still cover everything. When we can afford to replace the front shocks will get camber bolts then and do it properly, but for now this is only sposed to be a CHEAP lift.

daymo wrote:Fitted the VL springs and put everything back together. Now this is where I have come unstuck.

The VL springs are not a perfect fit at the top, and sit out slightly on one side from the seat.

Just got a WOF so good until September but will it be an issue for certification/next WOF? If so how can I fix it?
Are there any springs that would better suit?

I found that problem as well. Sorted it by levering the spring across into the spring mount with two big screwdrivers while the lower arm was slowly jacked up - needed two people. Seemed to work OK.

Heating and bending them make them fit perfect. Like a 15min job to do.

Yea tried to keep them shoved over but they still slid back out and don't have a torch to heat them.


You can clearly see the spring doesnt sit centre, and I was not happy with this at all, which got me thinking.

Anyway, problem solved!!

When I got the c33 rear springs, they were still on the struts as the guy was to slack to remove the springs. Looking through all the bits I had left over, realised that the c33 top rubbers internal ring was only 4mm smaller from what i needed for the VL spring, and the external measurement of the rubber and plate were that of the suzuki mount.



As the plate tapers in, I could just cut down untill i got the desired diameter of the suzuki mount/bump stop. Lots of trial and error required here. Also hammered it out slightly to stretch the rubber and take up those few extra mm and ended up with this.



Removed the original spring pad and cut back, just to act as a spacer to fill the recess.


The stack of, VL spring, c33 rubber, c33 plate, suzuki rubber.


All back in and sitting nice and central, and won't move anywhere.


And the best part is that it acts like a spacer for a further 10ish mm of front lift!!

Also got the shocks fitted today, just had to replace the bushes. Possibly could have gone longer but for $30 I'm not complaining. Gives 60mm extra droop over standard.