Offroad-Express

ok - so I've been looking into how to improve the on-road ride smoother (won't actually be doing much off-road driving other than forrest tracks when out mountain-biking or heading up the mountain with the snowboard).

So far I've been advised not to bother with the FJ60 or FJ80 axle swap as it doesn't really improve on-road handling that much.

Similarly I've been put off the 3 or 4-link suspension as I'm not going to be taking the beast off-road much.

Which is good because all of those mods are kin-spensive!

However - I've been told that changing from leaf-springs to coil suspension will bring a massive improvement. But I can't find anything online about this other than the FJ60 or FJ80 axle swaps. Does anyone know of an FJ40 coil suspension mod using the existing axles?

Cheers

Its a 40 therefore itll be pretty average on the road, If you want somethin that handles better an is generally nicer to drive buy somethin later model that is already coiled .

If youre still keen on the 40 you could use range rover coil set up on the original axles, Pm Sig on here hes done that to the front of his but he said it was pretty average on road.. prob best to stick with the leaves, maybe just get new shocks, spring bushes an p/steering etc

The other thing to consider is how much you can do yourself, If you have to pay someone to do it then coil setups will be expensie no matter which way you go

if ya only wanna go up the odd forest track, why feckin bother coilin a 40 but not 3 or 4 link it up? (have heard of a single link.. but be uglier than rokhound in a speedo though..) why not just sell it and get a cheap ifs hlux or something. forrest tracks or to go snowboarding wouldnt be too inaccessable for an ifs lux. its coiled, real user friendly with better on road manners than a 40. sounds almost like a groin yank factor ya goin for..

cheapest option by far is to use what ya got.. if ya only doin the occasional off road and mainly hard top stuff, play round with ya shocks and leaf spring set up if the 40's really what ya wanna keep. otherwise the hilux or similar type set up would be cheaper to run and maintain too.

the best thing you could do for your on road handling is to put some nice radial road tyres on it, at the end of the day no matter what you do its always going to be a heavy clumsey brick of a truck with no road manners

Hey mate, if you like your 40 then keep it because you can change the handling of a 40series to be just as good on and off road as some later model trucks, the thing that stuffs up the ride quality of the 40series is the front springs, the moveable shackle is at the front and fixed pin is at the rear, if you put in a shackle reversal kit, your truck will handle completly different because itll get rid of bump steer and the springs and shocks can absorb the bump.
Ive got two trucks with shackle reversals and my mates and customers have been very surpised how well my trucks drive and handle on the road and considering the trucks are built for offroad. Cheap conversion to do also.

thanks for the feedback chaps.

Reason I'm sticking with the FJ40: ok, I'll be honest - they look far cooler than a Heep. And ... it's a 1972 - same year as me, so I'm hoping to prove that the year still has what it takes to compete with today's offerings! (Must surely be a mid-life crisis!!!)

I've heard that the multi-link is a cool upgrade BUT very costly and also main benefits are off-road use. Given I'm going to be mainly on-road, it's not worth the cost.

Similarly I've heard that the shackle-reversal benefits are more noticeable off-road so probably not an expense I'm too keen to consider at this stage.

Anybody in the Auckland area (North Shore) with a Shorty Forty with shackle reversal that can be test-driven on normal roads to compare the difference?

I guess the 'Rover springs would be an option as long as they're an improvement on the current on-road handling.

Otherwise I guess I'm best sticking with what I've got.

Which, incidentally, is one of the oldest, most basic, delapidated forms of transport I've ever had. And probably by far the most fun I've ever driven too! ;o)

so how ya gonna locate the diffs if puttin coils under and gettin rid of the leafness? ie, what method..?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=860552

You would notice the benefits of a shackle reversal more on the road than offroad because its the bump steer on the road which makes them handle like crap but you dont notice it off road, if you were using a truck for just an offraod hack i wouldnt waste my money doing a shackle reversal because the real benefits are on road use.

chrome wrote:http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=860552

i'm hearin ya on that..

but if 3 or 4 link not wanted due to cost, and coils still wanted, then not a lot of options left....

Chrome - I'll add that to my Santa List but I suspect I know the answer to that one!

So it's sounding like the only option for modding the FJ40 wth coil-suspension (other than FJ60 / FJ80 axle swap or the 3 / 4 link suspension route) is the Rover approach which only gives an average on-road experience?

Sheesh - never expected to hear anyone here mutter the words "it can't be done!"

chocolatelustboy wrote:
Sheesh - never expected to hear anyone here mutter the words "it can't be done!"

No one here is saying that. You want to coil spring a 40 yr+ old design for next to nothing and you obviously don't have a huge amount of knowledge on how you want to achieve what you want or you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

What you are asking can be done. But if you don't pocess the skills to do it, then it will cost you a fair amount, and would be uneconomic.

What you are being told here is that you cannot have everything for nothing

it was never said that it 'cant be done'.. *edit* (as rok said)

just a way of staying within your parameters of goin coils, stayin cheap, and havin good manners on road..

so ya thinkin rover control arms with rover coils all round? its a good combo..

how much can you do yourself? do ya weld/fab etc?

i run range rover arms and springs on the front of my 40 and the ride is heaps nicer than the standard leafs.my cock up was getting my panhard rod not set up properly which makes my 40 bump steer a bit and putting my diff mounts out to wide resulting in the tyres rubbing on the arms.i did my conversion nearly 17 years ago when i was young and didn,t really know what i was doing .if i did it again i would probably use the same setup as its relatively straight forward and cheapish but i would pay more attention to where i mounted things and probably use coilover shocks as apposed to seperate springs and shocks. hope this helps cheers sig

Yea i agree with nibs and rok, coils can be put into a 40 no worries but it can be expensive even if you can do the work yourself, but we were just offering other easyier solutions to your probs that would be easyer and cheaper.
Coils are the ultimate in a 40 if they are setup rite.

This may be the best answer but suspect it will not be cheap either. If you do it.. can you do two as I would be keen on one also.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-corner/264922-fzj40.html

W

hehe - yep - that FJZ40 is indeed a nice piece of kit.

So, as you've all correctly pointed out: I don't have ANY fabrication skills. And I know that, as they say:

I can do it well,
I can do it cheap,
I can do it quick ...
... pick any two.

Not having the skills means it's either going to cost an arm and a leg or be finished some time after my son inherits it!

But what I'm trying to work out is what are the options so that I can start working out the costs. Then I'll know whether or not I can afford it.
If I can then fanbloodytastic and I'll start collecting parts
If I can't then I'll just have to accept that and stop day-dreaming

Soooo ... next question is ... assuming I have to pay someone else to do all fabrication and I do all other non-skilled work, what sort of costs am I looking at (ball park) for:

- FJ60 axle swap

- FJ80 axle swap

- 3 or 4 link suspension

- Rover coil upgrade

I guess what I'm looking for here is to draw on the advice from all those who have done these sorts of modifications themselves and have the benefit of hindsight.

Appreciate all the advice, chaps.

I can help you with suggestions not costs,
60 series axles are leaf sprung any way, so you will not only have to fork out for them, you then need to get coil fab work sorted.

3 or 4 link will hurt you because of the paying for fab work and you still need someone who fully understands all the suspension geometry requirements. The person who will possess all that will cost you.

Fitting rover arms and coils will work in the front, but to do rover rear set up involves an a-arm, and not all rigs have the room to mount it and sort it out properly.

I reckon your best bet is to find a hellishly high mileage or buggered 80 series that is complete and do the same as the above link shows, IE shorten the chassis, and mount the 40 on top.

Buying this could save some coin

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 005892.htm

Just a thought. I know nothing more about it than the ad just remembered seeing it on there a while ago

i was going to coil my 40 with nissasn safari gear ie radius arms springs/shocks and perches

pretty much an entire safari front end but using the 40 axles

i have some pics on my pc i think of various coil setups that i was taking ideas from

Have a read thru Wopass' thread herehttp://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14283 80 series axles under a 40

Range rover front conversion is pretty cheap as far as parts go, I got the whole front diff an suspension set up for $100 (Was planning to use in the front of mine)
Not sure on cost of fabbing up mounts an fitting them to your original front diff but could be done reasonably easily by the right person
80 series front diffs can be pretty expensive but the rear diffs are usually not too bad so the rear 80 set up could be put into your 40

Personally I dont think my 40 handles that bad with the leaves an 33" mudzillas, you have to make certain sacrifices when driving a classic as someone else has said the best place to start would be a good set of A/T tyres also new spring bushes shocks etc then see what you think

The other problem when starting to mod a 40 is that once you start its hard to stop an you keep finding things you want to upgrade, next thing you know its in a million bits an off the road when you should have just got out an driven it

Petemcc wrote:Buying this could save some coin

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 005892.htm

Just a thought. I know nothing more about it than the ad just remembered seeing it on there a while ago

This is in the Palmy Club and from what I've seen of it, its very capable and goes well.

Just leave the poor old girl as Mr Toyota intended, with leaf springs!!!

There is no point hacking up an old cruiser for the sack of mall cruising and road manners.

For road use, your far better off to massage the leaf springs by softening them up through removing a leaf or two and lubricating the leave's which you can do your self, fit new Nolathane shackle and spring bushes and greese-able shackles, do the shackle reversal to reduce bump steer as suggested earlier, fit a set of adjustable rate non gas charged shock absorbers (Rancho RS9000's can be had for $100ea) and adjust them to your taste.

Softer suspension will make it far more comfy on the road, but will make it roll more in the corners, so you may need to then look at retro fitting some anti sway bars.......

DieselBoy wrote:Just leave the poor old girl as Mr Toyota intended, with leaf springs!!!

There is no point hacking up an old cruiser for the sack of mall cruising and road manners.

For road use, your far better off to massage the leaf springs by softening them up through removing a leaf or two and lubricating the leave's which you can do your self, fit new Nolathane shackle and spring bushes and greese-able shackles, do the shackle reversal to reduce bump steer as suggested earlier, fit a set of adjustable rate non gas charged shock absorbers (Rancho RS9000's can be had for $100ea) and adjust them to your taste.

Softer suspension will make it far more comfy on the road, but will make it roll more in the corners, so you may need to then look at retro fitting some anti sway bars.......

From what you have stated so far in this thread, I would say listen to what DB is saying, this is the best advice you have been given so far!

Thanks to all - really do appreciate the open and honest advice.

Rok - you ARE the wee red guy on my shoulder ... "go the FJZ40, go the FJZ40 ..." but I think you're right, DB's advice is the best fit for my wallet.

Fakey - the Rover coils sounds cheap enough but I guess I need to do a bit more research on that to make sure that, as you say, I don't start something that consumes the rest of my life!

PeteMcC - that wagon sounds exactly like what I want to end up with - shame I don't have the cash right now (3 yr old son seems to believe that Thomas The Tank Engine is a higher priority and Her Indoors keeps telling me that the 9 month old's nappies come first)!

SafariPete - did you ever do that? Pics or it never happened ;o)

As for Wopass' wakka - I know he's poured hours of work, blood and sweat into his wagon and he has a world of skills I don't.

So until I can afford to go the FJZ40 it's looking like I'll follow DB's advice ;o)

Thanks fellas.

chocolatelustboy wrote:As for Wopass' wakka - I know he's poured hours of work, blood and sweat into his wagon and he has a world of skills I don't.

So until I can afford to go the FJZ40 it's looking like I'll follow DB's advice ;o)

Thanks fellas.

will let you know when its running again so you can come have another perv at it to get you descision making screwed again

how's that engine swap going? Got it purring yet?

nah still waiting for parts to turn up

and now its my turn to chime in and convince you to leave it stock

few facts on my old 40, when I finished it, it ran sweet as on the road, could easily do the tonne and at that speed you could take your hands off the wheel and it would go straight as

cornered well etc etc

had a 350 in it and 33s and a new shocks and a new steering stabiliser, otherwise nothing else done to it

may point out that I ran my tyres at 20psi coz it felt too bouncy otherwise

a small note, that once I went and put power steering on her, she became a bitch to keep straight on the road



so coz you got no skills similar to myself, then I would leave it standard but with all suspension parts updated, which should be a simple bolt in/out job and cruise around in it looking cool

Okay listened to the others and all they say is right. (yes even Skid)

Never ran a crisre myself but I ran its tiny brother (suzuki sj413) which has basically the same set up syspension wise.

First thing I would do is shocks. Get some adjustable ranchos - now these arent the best offroad weapons around but they should be fine for onroad (with the occassional offroad play). They also give you the oportunity to dial in the response you want (cheaper then adjustable koni and bilsteins). Oh and get a steering damper too if you can afford one to slow down the steering shudder (nice to have but not necesary).

Next I would tackle the springs, getting some made is crazy unless you really want soemthing different so shop around (Repco have springs for a reasonable price - again not great but a good price, especially if you get them on one of their 25% off days ). Greasable shackles and pins are good too to hel things move smoothly, but if you arent going offroad I would look for nolathane bushes rather then the rubber ones. Yes I know the nolathane are stiffer so it wont flex that well (or as good as it could) but they give better on road manners. Quite possibly cheaper too then the rubber ones.

Shackle reversal, never did one on my zook but it was always on the cards. if you look at the front of the wagon when you hit a bump the wheel has no choice but to travel up wards and forwards, with the shock being transfered back into the rear spring mount (pin). This means the wheel is travelling against the path of resistance and the ride is harsh. By moving the shackle to the rear the whell can now move back and up when encountering a bump which smooths everything out a lot.

So my pick is shocks then save for springs and anti inversion shackles with greasable pins etc and nolathane bushes to tighten things up (all things you should be able to do yourself during a weekend). Then drive for a while until you save for a shackle reversal (this will be costly and require certification and isnt something you can do unless you have the required skills) if you decide you absolutely have to have it.

Oh and get a manual for the wagon something like the haynes ones will be invaluable.

Then get out and drive.......