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4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:52 pm
by nova499
does anyone know if a toyota 4age motor will fit my escudo? Used to have a G16A motor in it. And also how hard would it be to mount the gear box and mount the motor? I'm a mechanic so will do all the work myself. Does anyone know if there is a conversion kit? Any help appreciated.
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:46 pm
by lincooln
plenty of people have done this before. They fit, but it is a fair bit of work. It isnt easy, but i am not saying don't do it. also I have no knowledge of any kit.
If you do do it, start a build thread, also if you haven't already try doing a search on this forum, and other Suzuki or 4wd forums. Heaps of info out there.
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:29 am
by Rotazuk
Why ? This is the second I want to put a #### engine in my truck . I don't want to sound like a negitave prat ( but I do
) , what are you going to gain out of a 4age in a vitara ? They don't have that much more power over the original engine . Sur there are probably cheaper but they are older engines and vitara engines are easier to come by now and cheap enough .
After hours of work and lots of $$$ you will be no further ahead . Just replace the original engine , if it was carbed put an efi engine in it . If you want more power put a j20 in it , atleast it bolts up to the gearbox so there are no expensive adapters to be made , just engine mounts .
No one makes a kit to put a 4age in a vitara .
Chris
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:52 pm
by nova499
good point chris im having real trouble finding a cylinder head for my g16a so i thought y not put a cheap reliable toyota in it.
i can fab my own engine mounts its just the gear box addaptor im a bit worried about.
so the 2liter suzuki motor will bolt to my gear box all good?
maybe that would be a cheaper way of dooing it what sort of price of would a motor cost?
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:24 pm
by ONOescudo
About a year ago I got a quote from a wrecker for $2200 for a J20 motor with loom but top end problems, like cam or something. Always looking at Turners Auctions Damaged Vehicles. Pick up a 1995 2L (J20) for less than that.
Or heaps easier to put it back standard maybe with a cam, free flow exhaust and air cleaner.
G 1600s on trademe for under $1000
(I cant talk coz I just put an electric turbo on my 1600 Escudo. Guess how much more power I got now???
That’s right…. ZERO. Stupid bloody thing)
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:52 pm
by Rotazuk
Paid $500 for my j18 and vitara gearbox
You can pick up a suzuki baleno for around $1-$1500 , keep the engine and sell off all the other bits . There was a J20 gen two vitara and pick a part in takanini but judging by the fact that it was not damaged I guess the engine has issues .
The J series has the same gearbox bolt pattern as the g16 etc . Would need new engine mounts . J18 is the fwd engine in the baleno smaller version of teh j20 . If you look at the j20 you will see it has a water pipe running along the top of the exhaust , this is to get the water outlet from the back of the engine to the front , so I guess the j18 came first .
Chris
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:57 pm
by Heath
Latest Aussie 4wd mag has an article on a scud with a turbo (from a ca18dt I think), did a little work to get it right but seemed like a nice compromise. Of course it is a shite load of money to throw at a small engine that will now start to break other stuff, so a stronger gearbox and T case is next and then diffs and CV's...
Bang for your buck a vitara 8V Throttle body injection model is good value. More torque then the 16, shares the same manifold pattern with the 8V carb (and I think the 1300 motor too - have to check that). Everyone is after the 16V's but the 8V's would be my pick for when I do it all over again, but maybe with a small supercharger (Eh Chris - Like the one that was parked at your place some time ago). I would think the 8V would be starting to dominate (okay, dominate may be too strong a word) the junk market too. Hell the 8V head even fits on the 1300 if you are desperate.
Buy a junker like Chris suggested and sell what you dont want.
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:58 pm
by nova499
ONOescudo wrote:About a year ago I got a quote from a wrecker for $2200 for a J20 motor with loom but top end problems, like cam or something. Always looking at Turners Auctions Damaged Vehicles. Pick up a 1995 2L (J20) for less than that.
Or heaps easier to put it back standard maybe with a cam, free flow exhaust and air cleaner.
G 1600s on trademe for under $1000
(I cant talk coz I just put an electric turbo on my 1600 Escudo. Guess how much more power I got now???
That’s right…. ZERO. Stupid bloody thing)
it has a g16a efi in it already but finding it hard to get a second hand head was quoted 700 for a new one so thought i would get a good 4age motor not for a performance upgrade but for ease of getting spare parts easy and cheaply. the only thing i would need help with is the bell housing adaptor as i have never done this before mounting and wiring the motor would be easy.
lol about the electric turbo what sort of boost pressure does it give u?
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:04 pm
by nova499
Heath wrote:Latest Aussie 4wd mag has an article on a scud with a turbo (from a ca18dt I think), did a little work to get it right but seemed like a nice compromise. Of course it is a shite load of money to throw at a small engine that will now start to break other stuff, so a stronger gearbox and T case is next and then diffs and CV's...
Bang for your buck a vitara 8V Throttle body injection model is good value. More torque then the 16, shares the same manifold pattern with the 8V carb (and I think the 1300 motor too - have to check that). Everyone is after the 16V's but the 8V's would be my pick for when I do it all over again, but maybe with a small supercharger (Eh Chris - Like the one that was parked at your place some time ago). I would think the 8V would be starting to dominate (okay, dominate may be too strong a word) the junk market too. Hell the 8V head even fits on the 1300 if you are desperate.
Buy a junker like Chris suggested and sell what you dont want.
Just an idea all i need to get my motor going again is a head
its a g16a efi 16v could i bolt a 8v head to my block or even use a 1300 head ???? it seems impossible to get a 16v head second hand.
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:11 pm
by Heath
gomulletgo wrote:I have a single point injected 8valve G16A and if you really twisted my arm I even have a 16valve 100hp G16A
021 144 9256
Found in another thread. Might be worth a look depending on where you are.
Not sure if the 8V heads fit on the 16V block, I seem to think they were different (I know the timing gears are). Isnt the G16A the 8V block and the G16B the 16V one.
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:23 pm
by nova499
Heath wrote:gomulletgo wrote:I have a single point injected 8valve G16A and if you really twisted my arm I even have a 16valve 100hp G16A
021 144 9256
Found in another thread. Might be worth a look depending on where you are.
Not sure if the 8V heads fit on the 16V block, I seem to think they were different (I know the timing gears are). Isnt the G16A the 8V block and the G16B the 16V one.
im not to sure about the engine numbers on my fire wall its got g16a and the motor is a 16v i wonder if its a real early 16v motor??
i think im going to have to repower its to hard to find the right parts!!!
im in wellington btw
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:01 am
by Rotazuk
A g13 head will fit on and g16 block , g13 being a sj413 1300cc .
A g16 8v head will fit on any g16 block and a g13 for that matter . A g16 16v head will only fit on a g16v block due to the dishes in the piston heads , being 16v it needs the clearance . an 8v head does not need any dish so does not matter .
8v heads and blocks run narrower timing belts , so if you swa heads you will need to swapp front pulley's .
Years ago a mate borrowed my spare 16v head as he needed one for his jimny , he ended up getting a new one but it was identical to the g16 16v head . So he asked the part number for a g16 and got the same part . I thought they had different valves in the g16 but maybe not .
If thats the case look for a g13 with a 16v head , found in jimnys and swift/barina's around the mid 90's . I know a guy off tard me that has a complete g13 16v he may want to sell for around $300( Dickhead was ment to buy my g10's but never got back to me ) . May be worth a shot .
Do not get a swift 1.6 g16 carb'ed head (came in the 4dr saloon swift's ) . They do not have the cut out for the injectors , well unless you can machine it ( they are cheap , need to swap your cam over thou ) .
This should give you some more options if cost is an issue . Even a new head at $700 ( not that I would pay that, get a complete engine for that ) would be cheaper than a conversion .
Chris
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:17 am
by Heath
Rotazuk wrote:A g13 head will fit on and g16 block , g13 being a sj413 1300cc .
A g16 8v head will fit on any g16 block and a g13 for that matter . A g16 16v head will only fit on a g16v block due to the dishes in the piston heads , being 16v it needs the clearance . an 8v head does not need any dish so does not matter .
8v heads and blocks run narrower timing belts , so if you swa heads you will need to swapp front pulley's .
Chris
See I knew I was right - Well kind of. I did say that someone more knowledgeable then me would know, so I was half right
.
It seems your options just got better.
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:30 pm
by nova499
Rotazuk wrote:A g13 head will fit on and g16 block , g13 being a sj413 1300cc .
A g16 8v head will fit on any g16 block and a g13 for that matter . A g16 16v head will only fit on a g16v block due to the dishes in the piston heads , being 16v it needs the clearance . an 8v head does not need any dish so does not matter .
8v heads and blocks run narrower timing belts , so if you swa heads you will need to swapp front pulley's .
Years ago a mate borrowed my spare 16v head as he needed one for his jimny , he ended up getting a new one but it was identical to the g16 16v head . So he asked the part number for a g16 and got the same part . I thought they had different valves in the g16 but maybe not .
If thats the case look for a g13 with a 16v head , found in jimnys and swift/barina's around the mid 90's . I know a guy off tard me that has a complete g13 16v he may want to sell for around $300( Dickhead was ment to buy my g10's but never got back to me ) . May be worth a shot .
Do not get a swift 1.6 g16 carb'ed head (came in the 4dr saloon swift's ) . They do not have the cut out for the injectors , well unless you can machine it ( they are cheap , need to swap your cam over thou ) .
This should give you some more options if cost is an issue . Even a new head at $700 ( not that I would pay that, get a complete engine for that ) would be cheaper than a conversion .
Chris
so your saying the g13 16 valve head is the same head as the g16 16 valve head? what is the dick heads name with the motor on trade me lol i might need to buy that motor
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:10 pm
by Heath
If you go with the narrower pulleys then you will need the V pulleys off the narrow one for your alternator and power steering (bastards dont line up otherwise - learned the hard way). Of course you could just space them forwards (or is that space them backwards
, cant remember, but they will need moving
)
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:53 pm
by nova499
Heath wrote:If you go with the narrower pulleys then you will need the V pulleys off the narrow one for your alternator and power steering (bastards dont line up otherwise - learned the hard way). Of course you could just space them forwards (or is that space them backwards
, cant remember, but they will need moving
)
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:21 pm
by nova499
right decided to give the toyota 4age motor a go going to pull out my old suzuki g16 16v will have to get an adapter plate made and i will start a new forum on my swap any help tracking down somone that could help me make my adapter plate would be good
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:29 pm
by turoa
Honestly why would you waste your time? Im not that impressed with 4age's in sj's, I mean sure they go ok (my brother has one) and it revs out well but for the cost and the effort you would be better off doing something better
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:49 pm
by nova499
i think the toyota motor is bullet proof and parts are real easy to find and at a good price.
im not doing this swap for a performace upgrade im doing it because parts for my g16 are so hard to get and very exspensive.
if i realy wanted performace at a later date i could use the 4age super charged pistons from the levin bolting up a turbo easy power low cost.
what other motors would u be thinking of using?
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:05 pm
by niblik
put a feckin rotary in it..
i wanna do that..
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:09 pm
by coxsy
a rover V8
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:52 am
by nova499
coxsy wrote:a rover V8
way to powerfull would have to change gearbox and drive cvs etc would sound good ha
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:12 pm
by badnuz
G13B swift GTi motor
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:39 pm
by lilpigzuk
Assume you have been on outerlimits? Couple of threads about guys doing the swap. I think one even made the adapter. Failing that if you are in wellington get Howat to make up the adapter
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:11 pm
by nova499
lilpigzuk wrote:Assume you have been on outerlimits? Couple of threads about guys doing the swap. I think one even made the adapter. Failing that if you are in wellington get Howat to make up the adapter
hey mate had a quick look on outerlimits how do i get hold of howat??? this would be the only thing i would need help with
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:04 pm
by lilpigzuk
nova499 wrote:lilpigzuk wrote:Assume you have been on outerlimits? Couple of threads about guys doing the swap. I think one even made the adapter. Failing that if you are in wellington get Howat to make up the adapter
hey mate had a quick look on outerlimits how do i get hold of howat??? this would be the only thing i would need help with
Howat Engineering. I only have his cell number. Hes adapted all sorts of engines to gearboxs. 4AG series engines have potential for a heap more power over a vitara 1600, but there is only so much a vitara front end can handle offroad so again is it worth all the modding to get the extra hp? Mind you many a projects have been successful after they have been told they couldnt work - look at our latest engine/gearbox combo aye rotazuk
Incase you missed the outerlimits threads
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... and+vitarahttp://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... and+vitara
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:14 pm
by DieselBoy
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:49 pm
by Nivapulledout
hay bro here is a couple of links which may help you make the adaptor plate yourself, it is not that hard to do and way cheaper than getting someone to do it for you, you just need a big enough plate of steel and some threaded rod. and maybe a flywheel spacer machined.
this one is of a guy mating a lexus V8 to another box I used this as a guide to doing mine.
http://www.motorswaps.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4106this is my build thread for my lada when I put a 1.6 puegoet diesel into it,(along with disk brakes,virtual lift and steel front diff)
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=50628&start=0hope it helps and if you have any questions just pm me
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:42 am
by nova499
Nivapulledout wrote:hay bro here is a couple of links which may help you make the adaptor plate yourself, it is not that hard to do and way cheaper than getting someone to do it for you, you just need a big enough plate of steel and some threaded rod. and maybe a flywheel spacer machined.
this one is of a guy mating a lexus V8 to another box I used this as a guide to doing mine.
http://www.motorswaps.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4106this is my build thread for my lada when I put a 1.6 puegoet diesel into it,(along with disk brakes,virtual lift and steel front diff)
http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=50628&start=0Hey thanks mate going to have a look right now
il pm u if i get stuck as i said its the only thing i have never done before i made different engine mounts before.
your lada sounds a machine the pug motors pull real good as i had a 306 tdi back in the uk.
hope it helps and if you have any questions just pm me
Re: 4age into my escudo help wanted
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:40 am
by Nivapulledout
sorry bit of a typo it is a 1.9 td should pull like me when I was 16
good luck with your swap the 4AGE is a lovely engine.