Offroad-Express

I currently have a SWB Pajero, which I am more than happy with, apart from the fact that it is not the most economical, especially since my wife is using it as a daily driver.
I am looking to replace it with another 4wd, with the following requirements:
5 or more seats
4 or more doors
proper 4wd, or at least capable of driving offroad.
Better fuel economy (currently getting around 5.5 km/litre)

I am open to suggestions, currently looking at Land Rover, Jeep, Surf, Challenger, but not having owned any of these I do not know what to expect.

Can anyone give me their 5 cents worth?

need more info, how much coin ya wanna spend, how much off road and what type ya wanna do, are ya gonna tow with it, do ya want to mod it more than factory, do ya want to mod it yaself or buy one already done, and a million more questions I haven't thought of

I probably don't want to spend more than $6000, and will tow a trailer from time to time. Probably 80-90 % of the travel will be done on normal roads.
But I do want to be able to drive on Karioitahi Beach without getting stuck.
I am happy with little or no mods.
We love the Pajero, especially on the beach, but it is not economical enough for daily use. Having said that, I do not expect to get 14km/litre on a 4wd.
Any suggestions are welcome.

Simple buy another smaller car for a daily driver. 4x4s are big an heavy an never going to be economical aswell as being good at towing, especially in the price range youve suggested

That is my other option, is to get another small runabout, and keep the 4wd for weekends and long distance travelling.

2.8 Pajero?

I would prefer not to get a diesel. After the RUC, and more frequent services, I am not convinced they are cheaper to run compared to petrol cars. And the difference in fuel economy is not that good.
Unless anyone can convince me otherwise.

I am watching an LPG Pajero, does anyone have experience with LPG?
Is it cheaper to run?

krokkie wrote:I am watching an LPG Pajero, does anyone have experience with LPG?
Is it cheaper to run?

I had a series 2 landy with a holden 186 in it on LPG years ago, bloody tempramental, was hard to start on LPG, would have to switch it to petrol before turning off to get it to run, was always gutless on LPG and the valve seats wore out real quick due to the dryness of the gas.
I know there are "fixes" to all the issues I had but due to them and the cost of LPG at the pump these days I see it as "cooking only" fuel.
Diesel trucks are stiil the best value for money overall, even with the new rego, I just spent $408.00 for 12mnths on a 3.1 intecooled DT, $80 goes 600ks and towing is a breeze.

Cheers for that.
Haven't got a lot of experience with LPG, or diesel for that matter.

hosehustler wrote:

krokkie wrote:I am watching an LPG Pajero, does anyone have experience with LPG?
Is it cheaper to run?

I had a series 2 landy with a holden 186 in it on LPG years ago, bloody tempramental, was hard to start on LPG, would have to switch it to petrol before turning off to get it to run, was always gutless on LPG and the valve seats wore out real quick due to the dryness of the gas.
I know there are "fixes" to all the issues I had but due to them and the cost of LPG at the pump these days I see it as "cooking only" fuel.
Diesel trucks are stiil the best value for money overall, even with the new rego, I just spent $408.00 for 12mnths on a 3.1 intecooled DT, $80 goes 600ks and towing is a breeze.

+$20 bucks for road users, I personally dont see much difference between the 2.4td in my prado and the possible 3.8v6 I may put in it

$93 80l diesel + average of $23 for ruc and average of 550km tank
=.21c/km
$136 petrol, average 500km tank = 27c/km
difference between petrol and diesel over 10000km= $600

Factor in the higher costs of diesel, ie, more oil, dearer filters, injectors and pumps have limited life and costly to overhaul, common rail is even worse, I wont be buying a diesel again when its time to upgrade

All good arguments had this diesel 3 yrs in that time i've bought a battery, changed the oil every 10,000ks same as petrol, a couple of belts and that's it, maybe i've had a lucky run, but all the petrol 4x4's i've owned have been;
constant problems around water
rebuilds
tune ups, plugs, points etc
always cost more to run than claimed

we all preach what we practice but I've had them all............... I thought this was a diesel vs LPG question
Buy what you want i'd personally have either a hilux petrol, a hilux Petrol/LPG or a hilux diesel or all of the above

hosehustler wrote:All good arguments had this diesel 3 yrs in that time i've bought a battery, changed the oil every 10,000ks same as petrol, a couple of belts and that's it, maybe i've had a lucky run, but all the petrol 4x4's i've owned have been;
constant problems around water
rebuilds
tune ups, plugs, points etc
always cost more to run than claimed

we all preach what we practice but I've had them all............... I thought this was a diesel vs LPG question
Buy what you want i'd personally have either a hilux petrol, a hilux Petrol/LPG or a hilux diesel or all of the above

would prefer not to get a diesel. After the RUC, and more frequent services, I am not convinced they are cheaper to run compared to petrol cars. And the difference in fuel economy is not that good.
Unless anyone can convince me otherwise.

My comments were based on your post and krokkies

The 3.0 V6 Terrano I have is cheaper to run than the 4.2 turbo (factory) LWB GQ Safari I also have.
4x4 are big and heavy so cost to run.
My current car, Mazda 6 MPS, 2.3 turbo 4x4 costs about 50% of the Safari to run. And that is a 190kw!

Also have done the figures and was looking petrol over deisel to replace the Safari and unless doing more than about 30,000k's a year then petrol 4.5 was cheaper than a 4.2 turbo deisel. This is taking into account RUC, servicing, depreciation, purchase price and fuel. Petrol 4x4's are so much cheaper due to public ignorance of actual cost, that they work out even cheaper once PP is taken into account.

So I say keep your 4x4 and buy a car to commute in.

haynzy wrote:

hosehustler wrote:

krokkie wrote:I am watching an LPG Pajero, does anyone have experience with LPG?
Is it cheaper to run?

I had a series 2 landy with a holden 186 in it on LPG years ago, bloody tempramental, was hard to start on LPG, would have to switch it to petrol before turning off to get it to run, was always gutless on LPG and the valve seats wore out real quick due to the dryness of the gas.
I know there are "fixes" to all the issues I had but due to them and the cost of LPG at the pump these days I see it as "cooking only" fuel.
Diesel trucks are stiil the best value for money overall, even with the new rego, I just spent $408.00 for 12mnths on a 3.1 intecooled DT, $80 goes 600ks and towing is a breeze.

+$20 bucks for road users, I personally dont see much difference between the 2.4td in my prado and the possible 3.8v6 I may put in it

$93 80l diesel + average of $23 for ruc and average of 550km tank
=.21c/km
$136 petrol, average 500km tank = 27c/km
difference between petrol and diesel over 10000km= $600

eh???

Not sure on your maths there fella

80L of diesel = $93

80L of diesel goes 550km

RUC for 1000km are $37.71, or 0.03771c per km

RUC for 550km are $20.74

So for traveling that 550km it cost $113.74

80l petrol costs $140,

To be fare you have to presume that they would cover the same distance on that quantity of fuel.

So over 10,000k's

Diesel will cost $2068
Petrol will Cost $2545

Total difference $477

You also need to factor these into the equation (don't have time right now):

The higher cost of licencing a Diesel, worked out based on avereage of 10,000ks per year.

The 5000k service intervals that involves 10L of oil in a diesel, as opposed to the 10,000k service interval requiring 5L of oil in a petrol.

The electrical components i.e spark plugs and leads that need to be replaced regularly on a petrol

Of the 6 or so Diesel 4wds Ive owned Ive only done servicing at 10,000km intervals, also some people cheat the RUC system which would save alot of $$$. For the money and what you need Id go Turbo diesel Surf or Terrano.cheers

I recently sold my Landcruiser Vx 95 185k km diesel, it was great, but massive to drive around town, easily hit by JAFAs, and perhaps to tempting to floor it and gussel fuel. Paid 15K and sold it for 21K so i had 6K to get a free truck.

In my opinion the best option was to get a Nissan Mistral.

2 and 4 wheel drive with terrano componentry

5 doors, 7 seats, fairly high so good capacity for music equipment,

2.7 turbo has enough power, economical and reliable.

So for 6k i got a 1995 mistral with 95k km in (so far) mint condition.

Im happy so far, I think its a good option,

Thanks for all the replies, all opinions are welcome and valued.
I am still reluctant to get a diesel.
Does anyone have comparative figures between different makes and models of diesel, petrol and LPG?

I am currently getting around 5-6km on a litre with my SWB, my previous LWB (which I miss terribly,even though she guzzled the gas) got around 5km/litre on a good day.

One of the main reasons for the change is the SWB is a bit of a mission with two kids, and not enough space.

Does anyone have an opinion of Landrover?
I am watching a 2000 Freelander 1800cc petrol on Trademe.

krokkie wrote:Does anyone have an opinion of Landrover?
I am watching a 2000 Freelander 1800cc petrol on Trademe.

Doesn't have low range, so that's something to consider.

What about the other Landrover models?
Another question:
Anyone have any experience of Suzuki and Pajero IO?

What about the other Landrover models?
Another question:
Anyone have any experience of Suzuki and Pajero IO?

krokkie wrote:What about the other Landrover models?

I take it you don't want a series Land Rover
For $6k you could get a probably get a fairly decent diesel Discovery up to about a 97(anything newer jumps up in price). If going for a diesel, you'd ideally want to look for something NZ new and with a service history.

There would be a lot of v8 Discoverys and Rangies that would fall well under that price. But the v8 will suck more fuel than your Pajero. They get about 20l/100k round town.

I have driven a few series Landies in my days, and they just don't do it for me.
How is their reliability?

Thinking long term, if you are not a mechanic (even a good amateur mechanic) yourself, I probably wouldn't look at land rovers, as paying someone else to repair, and parts, will be expensive.

I agree with the other guy, buying the runabout and keeping your current truck sounds the best for you given that you like your pajero but want something cheap for the wife.

pouw wrote:and parts, will be expensive.

Why do people always say that? rover parts are cheap as hell and extremely easy to get hold of, when they do need parts it is usually small and cheap anyway.

All of my dads landrovers (2x range rovers and a disco) are extremely good vehicles that are comfy and reliable as hell. And while the p38 rangie and disco, they have had a couple of problems, they have all been pretty damn cheap to fix. The other rangie has had no problems.

Cant exactly say the same for my landcruiser

Thank you for the last two comments.
Although I am not a mechanic, I have done some fixes to my Pajero and know the Pick-a-Part yards quite well!
Having said that, the repairs have been minor and the Pajero has been thirsty, but reliable. Seeing as my wife will be driving it, I need something reliable that won't leave her stranded.

Don't get me wrong, I think ranges and discos are comfy as hell, nice to drive and good offroad, but not being a mechanic myself, when something goes bang it a cash worry.

However I take turoas point, truth is if you are paying someone else to repair, it's always expensive.

What about a vitara, 1600 not the V6 (thirsty)?

I am actually watching a few Escudos and Vitaras, as well as a few Pajero IO (1800cc)

Can anyone comment on their off road capability?
We don't really use our Pajero in proper off road conditions, but drive on the beach (loose sand) every now and then.

Do the Suzukis and Pajero IO have centre diff lock and/or low range?

Vitara's/Escudo definitely have a low range, but to the best of my knowledge do not have difflocks, front, rear or centre - unless aftermarket ones are installed.

If you are using it for beachwork, a Vitara would be fine, very good even - light, capable, and good pep for going over sand. I have seen plenty of them being used for exactly that purpose.

My only comment about vitara's is that the driving position is a bit ummm compressed if you are tall - I am 6ft and although I enjoyed driving it, I wouldn't like to be doing a 5 hour haul.

Pajero IO's I don't know much about, dont even know if they have low range. The only comment on them is that a mate had one, and they are a 1000CC vehicle I think, rev very high, and therefore are not as cheap to run as they may appear.

Personally, of the two I would go for the Vitara, parts more plentiful, cheap as chips to run, maintenance costs would be low, and more capable for even the little offroading you propose.