commodore v6 for hilux?

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:46 pm

My gearbox in my LN65 is not happy, and so I'll be replacing it. My current thinking is: "if I'm going to have to take the gearbox out, I might as well take the engine out. And if I'm taking the engine out, I might as well put something that isn't a gutless 2.4L diesel back in"

I'm not exactly full of money at the moment, so I'm thinking I'll pass on the lexus v8, since my mate ended up spending about $10k getting his in. Are the commie v6's an easy conversion?

They seem pretty cheap and plentiful, and it would be a significant power upgrade, but I'm wondering if anyone who's done it can shed any light on what the total conversion cost is likely to be. I see there are kits consisting of bellhousing, speedo kit, mounts and wiring for around $2k in aussie, but I'm guessing it'd cost a heap to get that over here -is anyone aware of anywhere local to source a bellhousing?

Also, does anyone know what other mods would be required, and what welding needs to be done. I'm trying to be cheap and do what I can myself, but I can't weld well enough to pass a cert or anything, and this would in fact be my first engine conversion (have swapped an engine before, but only for same again).

I'm probably going to get some grief for not looking at old posts, but I swear I've tried a ton of search terms, and tried the first 10 pages of results on each, but can't find much that is useful. If this goes ahead, I will do a good write up with lots of pictures so the next guy knows exactly what he's in for.

Another question is what gearbox should I use? I am currently thinking either get a reco'd w52 (like what I currently have I think), or step up to the r151 from a surf. If I went the r151, does anyone know what mods that would require?

suzukisport · Post by **suzukisport** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:08 pm

Hey there.
The Commodore motor is a very good reliable motor. Our motor is not in a Hilux but have seen others that have been in Surfs and they say that it was a simple conversion.

We run just the standarded Commodore auto gear box on ours, which has an adaptor to run a Toyota Surf transfer case. From memeroy it was around $300 for the adaptor kit, which I think came from Marks 4wd Adaptors.

Where is your location? It helps to put this on your profile to save the same question being asked.
Cheers

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:24 pm

Auckland. Took me a while to figure out how to change my profile - was just sending you a PM to ask and then it pops up on the left.

I too have heard it is a simple conversion. My only problem is I don't really know what that means e.g. replacing the radiator, modifying the sump, shortening and lengthening driveshafts etc are all simple to some people, but if I have to do any or all of the above I need to know before I start, since I don't have endless money to throw at it right now.

How do you find the v6? Oddly enough I've never driven a v6 commie. My folks used to have some oddball 1.9L Berlina, and I've driven a couple with v8s, but never the common as dirt 3.8L v6. Are they a torquey v6 or a revver?

rokhound · Post by **rokhound** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:26 pm

Try closer to $1500 for the adaptor, and $2-3k for all the other bs (if you are being honest) to get it all done and certed.

That would also be allowing for you to do lots of the work yourself as well.

suzukisport · Post by **suzukisport** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:14 pm

88lux wrote:Auckland. Took me a while to figure out how to change my profile - was just sending you a PM to ask and then it pops up on the left.

I too have heard it is a simple conversion. My only problem is I don't really know what that means e.g. replacing the radiator, modifying the sump, shortening and lengthening driveshafts etc are all simple to some people, but if I have to do any or all of the above I need to know before I start, since I don't have endless money to throw at it right now.

How do you find the v6? Oddly enough I've never driven a v6 commie. My folks used to have some oddball 1.9L Berlina, and I've driven a couple with v8s, but never the common as dirt 3.8L v6. Are they a torquey v6 or a revver?

Yes they have a nice amount of power. They rev easy and have a fair bit of torque. Our motor has never really caused us many problems. We have had to replace a coil which are known to pack up, rear motor seal and thats about it so far. They seam to not mind driving through deep water and they alternator is at the very top of the motor away from mud. What model Commodore motor are you after e.g. VN, VP, VR, Ecotec? We are in the process of fitting an SC14 super charger to our motor for even more torque, so we will find out how the motor holds together running with it on.

Brought the adaptor through a sponser that he already had, but not used. The major thing we found is the wiring, trying to pair together Suzuki wiring with Holden isn't to easy. You will probally be looking at what rokhound said $2-3k in total for every thing to be right and certed.

Crash bandicoot · Post by **Crash bandicoot** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:21 pm

1500 for the adaptor, yeah theres a TUI billboard,

go find your self a KZN gearbox and a V6 3l toyota motor.

its all bolt in.

i found the 3l v6 exhaust manifolds left a little to be desired as it was originally the camry's powerplant, so i feel toyota took a short cut with them as the drivers side bank runs around the back of the engine to the passengers side manifold before making its exit down the gearbox tunnel, there is room there for proper extractors.

go to a wrecker and tell em you wanna swap a diesel engine GB/ combination for the v6 gb combination, (try Outback 4x4 in the waikato) i know they've got a truck load of surfs in there yard.

on a budget and want more power, bolt a super charger to it.

its only 800 cc's smaller then the buick, but all from the same family and a damn sight cheaper to get on the road.

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:47 pm

Cheers crash - had forgotten about the obvious, since a while back I heard bad things about the Toyota v6 heads cracking or something, but come to think of it, my mates holden rodeo v6 just cracked a head last week (might be isuzu i guess, but nonetheless...)

Just found the motors in question on wikipedia and it looks like it's not exactly a landslide in the power tables until you get to the ecotecs really, and they aren't so cheap.

When you say bolt in - is it really just bolt in? or would I need to say move my crossmember or shorten/lengthen shafts etc. Just trying to get an idea of total cost, so I can compare, but it seems like you may have suggested the option that pleases my wallet the most

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:18 pm

Hang on - just been reading up about the 5VZ-FE v6 from the later surfs (96 on). http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/views/viewtop ... =98&t=4864
Not sure if that's what you were talking about crash, but from what I've read so far, it might be worth a go. I've driven the early v6 surfs before, and whilst I'm not saying my 2L comes close, I thought they were a little weak for the juice they suck down. If what I'm reading is correct and the newer v6 can just bolt in place of the old v6 with a slight move of the mounts, it may be worthwhile.

Crash bandicoot · Post by **Crash bandicoot** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:17 am

my hilux was a diesel, and is now a V6, it is all bolt in from the toyota family. and no i havent had any issues with cracked heads, a little oil leak here and there from the cam covers, but nothing to be concerned about. i used the 3.0 that came in the camry and the '130 surfs' you could just about use any yota powerplant that has 6 cylinders

as stated "can get the surf 3.4 V6 efi motor for close to $600 to $700 nz dollars." not bad at all for a good power plant and one that bolts striaght to your hilux box.

rather then chopping off the mounts and re welding them Id make adaptors plates from 8 ml plate steel. for the 3.4 v6 from the later models,

even the 2Jz and 1Ge bolts to an A series box in the hilux range.

on a budget, this is the way to go, if you have money, yeah a 3.8 S/C buick or lexus etc

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:20 am

Cool. Do I need to swap fuel lines or tank to fit the v6 or just a good flush?

Crash bandicoot · Post by **Crash bandicoot** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:32 am

88lux wrote:Cool. Do I need to swap fuel lines or tank to fit the v6 or just a good flush?

if your truck was a factory diesel you will need to fit an Inline fuel pump from a (say a 1987 holden commodore) the fuel rails feed from the back of the engine(firewall) on the v6 so no, just buy new hoses to go from the fuel lines on the tunnel/firewall to the fuel rails.

i have the pinout diagrams and wiring loom diagrams here for the V6 or you can get them of the internet

heres a complete 3.4 349499789,

LIFTED · Post by **LIFTED** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:42 am

Some things to think about with converting Diesel trucks to Petrol EFI.Firstly the diff ratio is designed for a Diesel not a Petrol you may want to ask the owners who have converted,speed vs revs on motorway ect if its road legal as you mention getting a cert. The next thing is EFI engines run different fuel tanks as pumps are often in the tank as high pressure. Talking about the ECO TECH you mention thats a better power supply than non eco tech true but...ECO Tech runs a security coded ignition system that is a cost to have sparky get around it,I think you can buy a kit for this but its not cheap.

Not being big headed but as a mechanic,giving advise to others with limited budget and limited mechanical knowledge or assistance, I would say forget it! Its tricky enough in the workshop with trade parts and staff to assist,my boss has done many conversions. Everyone says it will bolt straight in...Piece of P-ss mate.Whatever! Go buy a truck thats got more power unless you have the know how or the cash.

Crash bandicoot · Post by **Crash bandicoot** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:47 am

No one said it was piece of piss, nothing ever is, murphys law and all, but aleast with the toyota v6 he's got a better chance then a 3.8 buick

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:12 am

Appreciate the warning lifted, but I'm currently on my second gearbox, so I'm pretty keen to do at least the gearbox upgrade. My thinking is basically that I'm a little underwhelmed by the current powerhouse and so some form of conversion is going to happen sooner or later, and since the gearbox is already coming out, it might just as well be sooner.

I realise nothing is ever as easy as it seems when you start, and that I have no experience swapping engines, but the only way I ever will have experience is if I give it a go. I think the hilux v6 sounds like about as easy a conversion as I could get (short of a 3L or 5L), and given what they cost and without the need for custom parts like bellhousings etc, should be the cheapest. My budget is limited, but at the same time, I have no faith left in the g or w52 (not sure which) standard gearboxes like I've got, so realistically I'm comparing with the cost of a freshly reco'd box as the most basic fix which appears to be ~$1500. If for roughly double that I can get the v6 in, it's well worth it I think.

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:13 am

What are the ratios like by the way? I've got 4.88 diffs now, but running 33s, so I'm back to roughly stock diesel ratio.

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:41 am

Crash bandicoot wrote:go find your self a KZN gearbox and a V6 3l toyota motor.

its all bolt in.

Not what i'd recommend, not only do you get something thirsty but something gutles as well!! But sure it would possibly be the cheapest option.

The 3.8 conversion is pretty well known now and can run pretty well, here's one we did in my shed

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... p&start=90

Not sure about fitting a toyo V6 to early hilux but the next shape ones had a different firewall and handbrake to fit the V6, the firewall needs a little massage for teh exhaust which runs behind the motor.

J_Dub · Post by **J_Dub** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:25 pm

allow 4k minimum for a comy conversion.
2k alone for the adaptor kit, and thats if you buy direct, its 2.7k if you buy from the NZ agents.
$500 for motor
1k for a new exhaust system
plus another 1k easy for all that shit you buy new beacause if your doing all this work theres no point fitting used half worn gear..
clutches etc, seals, wiring..
and thats doing it yourself
buy a VP motor, cause they use the best wiring setup. ie are simplest and use the same loom regarless of auto or manual.
i brought a VR motor, free, and realised once speaking to sparkys, when they wire them up they strip the loom and fit a VP loom.

if yours is diesel already ide look at a 1kz with mechanical pump

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:45 pm

The last one we done was about $250 for the exhaust (one muffler)
The adapter kit was $1500 from 4WD upgrades in chch, there were a couplt of other black boxes that control the speedo and torque convertor lock up as well

The last adapter plate I got made to mate to a hilux transfer box was $500 but since the guy (off this site) never paid me after so many excuses I don't get them done any more.

GotFlex · Post by **GotFlex** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:49 pm

id use the isuzu transfer case, you can pic one up for $50 and the adapter looks easy enough for a engineer to make

LIFTED · Post by **LIFTED** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:38 pm

88Lux sounds like your heading for the 3.8L? Just another pointer with this. I cant remember the fine details but if you go for the eco-tech and run factory exhaust manifolds they point out towards the chassis rails and take up alot of room...on the other hand i've seen the (non eco tech) runs ex-manifolds that hug the block allowing much more room. Either way round?? if you keep this in mind as my boss had this issue and swapped the manifold's to cure the issue. Cheaper than buying headers to fit.

All the best with the conversion. If it turns to custard dont post here as i'll say " told you so mate " hehe sorry.

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:54 pm

Wow! There are a lot of conflicting opinions on which is the best motor and on how much modification there is to fit them.

It seems to me that Toyota did a poor job of planning for the installation of alternative motors :lol:

I haven't made a decision yet. I'm still not sure what the deal is with either option for certain, as to whether I'd need to modify the firewall, shift mounts, shift crossmember, modify sump, modify driveshafts, or if I'd need to do a body lift. I think I need to find someone who has done a conversion on a LN65, find out what they had to do, and use the same as they did.

I'm more than happy to accept that there will always be those extras of a gasket here, a seal there, a new clutch while I can get to it etc, but I need to at least know what stuff I can't do myself at home, so I can plan for getting it somewhere to be welded or whatever.

If the firewall needs modding to get the toyo v6 in, then the commie v6 starts to look better. How do you hook up power steering after the conversion? Use the commie pump or hilux pump? I assume either way there is a couple of hundred there to get hoses made up with the correct fittings, or make up some sort of bracket and hook up a new drive belt.

J_Dub · Post by **J_Dub** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:18 pm

im in the process of fitting a 3.8 in my lux..
few thinngs ive found.
A body lift will help in alot of ways, for exhaust clearance and clearance from the air intake and heater hoses at the firewall..
Ive found that if you have a diesel hilux your options are beter as alot of other toyota donks drop straight on the factory mounts, where as if its factory 3y, mods to mounts are generally needed to fit other Toyo motors.

You would be best in my opinion to find a wrecked/damaged diesel hilux or surf with a late model diesel ie: 5l or 1kz, as you have said you need to replace the box aswell, so if you have a wreck with good running gear just swap all the good stuff over

chevrolux · Post by **chevrolux** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:46 pm

iv only driven one v6 surf and it was the slowest. most under-powered piece of shit ever! And apparently seriously thirsty. Mate was saying it was a tank just to get to Taupo. Dont know why any one would bother putting that motor in to anything.

J_Dub · Post by **J_Dub** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:54 pm

chevrolux wrote:iv only driven one v6 surf and it was the slowest. most under-powered piece of shit ever! And apparently seriously thirsty. Mate was saying it was a tank just to get to Taupo. Dont know why any one would bother putting that motor in to anything.

agreed.
ive owned 1 and seriously no more power than my 3ye, it was an auto though, and im sure they have more torque but should definatley not be a consideration

gimmemud · Post by **gimmemud** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:40 pm

I Reckon you should just sell your lux and buy my surf

already got the 3.8 in it for you

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:56 pm

Is it going cheap? :lol:

Got to be honest though - if I bought it, it would be a donor - I like having the tray too much. That's my other bright idea though - buy another lux that has already got a different engine but has been rolled or is a rusted out offroad only cheapie.
Think I'll send an email off to marks 4wd adapters and ask them what's involved with the commie v6. Since they seem to be where most people get the bellhousings, they have probably got a fair idea of what needs modding for my particular model and which engine is the easiest to fit. I haven't ruled out the option of a more recent one, as I'm actually an electronic and software engineer, so the wiring and gizmo side of it is not too scary for me.

gimmemud · Post by **gimmemud** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:25 pm

The guys at marks should be able to help, every time i've asked questions they have always been very helpful.
start looking for a crashed v6 commodore at turners some go as low as a couple of hundred on the right day

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:50 pm

Good advice. I'd been thinking it may be handy to have.a complete car to scrounge parts off

rokhound · Post by **rokhound** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:20 am

http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/viewforum.php?f=53

Check out this site. I have never looked through the v6 bit, but it should be able to help you anyway :wink:

I have a 304 holden fee8 in mine and it involved minor firewall mods, (massaging) however very little of my truck is std.
To save yourself some coin doing this you will want to be a competant fabricator (welding, shaping, drilling, grinding of steel),
reasonably good on the spanners and able to think things through in a logical manner with out having massive hissy fits

If you can't do the above, you will need to become very friendly with someone who can, or it is going to cost you.

88lux · Post by **88lux** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:16 am

Cheers - I think becoming a competent fabricator on short notice is a bit of a stretch, but as an engineer I tend to think things through fairly logically, and I can probably get my uncle (who is a very competent fabricator) to help out with any welding. I generally do most maintenance on our vehicles myself, so I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty or work my way through a problem. Probably my biggest concern at this point is making sure I have all the tools I need, and a reasonable idea of how much I'm gonna need to get help for (meaning welding and firewall mods mainly). Will check that site out and see where it gets me

commodore v6 for hilux?

commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?

Re: commodore v6 for hilux?