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A serious threat to unformed legal roads (ULR)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:39 pm
by PeterVahry
There is a Bill in Parliament concerning a serious unformed legal roads (ULR) issue.

There are several aspects of the Bill which give concern. A specific bylaw making power to address vehicular use of unformed legal roads has been included in the Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill (213-2) (14 December 2010) before Parliament as at January 2011

www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/SC/Documents ... ndment.htm

The full commentary and contact information can be found at www.nzfwda.org.nz

Re: A serious threat to unformed legal roads (ULR)

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:07 pm
by Crash bandicoot
lets face it...what police orifficer in his or her holden rodeo with AT's is going to follow you through a river, mud hole etc etc to give you a ticking off for an "overenthusiastic exhibition of offroading". its like a beach, do it in the right place, they wont bother you.

I'd like to see the mod squad follow me' Rb25det powered Ln130 through the central plateau. on or off road for that matter :wink:

Re: A serious threat to unformed legal roads (ULR)

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:23 pm
by Smurf
Crash bandicoot wrote:lets face it...what police orifficer in his or her holden rodeo with AT's is going to follow you through a river, mud hole etc etc to give you a ticking off for an "overenthusiastic exhibition of offroading". its like a beach, do it in the right place, they wont bother you.

I'd like to see the mod squad follow me' Rb25det powered Ln130 through the central plateau. on or off road for that matter :wink:


yeah, thats the attitude :roll:

They don't need to be able to follow you to give you a ticket, all they need is you reg plate number, then they can/will deliver it to your door

Re: A serious threat to unformed legal roads (ULR)

Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:25 pm
by Stage1V8
Crash bandicoot wrote:lets face it...what police orifficer in his or her holden rodeo with AT's is going to follow you through a river, mud hole etc etc to give you a ticking off for an "overenthusiastic exhibition of offroading". its like a beach, do it in the right place, they wont bother you.

I'd like to see the mod squad follow me' Rb25det powered Ln130 through the central plateau. on or off road for that matter :wink:


Yup, do a runner and they'll never catch you. Works all the time on the roads too, till you catch a passing lamp post/tree/pedestrian/car/etc. Going to really help the cause that will :roll:

Re: A serious threat to unformed legal roads (ULR)

Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:19 pm
by Landynut
I'd like to see anything on 4 wheels outrun the cops' new bmw 1150RT . . . you will be seeing them more and more frequently in future too, and there is nothing a man with nearly 100 horseys between his legs cant keep up with....

as for off-road, thats what helicopters are for :lol:

Re: A serious threat to unformed legal roads (ULR)

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:56 am
by Steve_t647
The police in CHCH save been seen monitoring the stockbanks on trial bikes.


From the link I have emailed the below makes it fast and easy if any ULR is deemed dangerous it can be closed under this law it only takes one serious accident for this to happen as a knee jerk reaction.


Email contact

s.joyce@ministers.govt.nz


Email Heading

Land Transport (Road Safety and Other Matters) Amendment Bill (213-2) (14 December 2010)

Email Content
The issue

This (and the previous government) approved legislation to empower territorial authorities to make bylaws restricting the use of motor vehicles on unformed legal roads for the purposes specified in paragraph (g) in clause 10 (1) of the Bill. The drafting of that clause correctly reflects that policy. The paragraphs reflect accurately the government decision and there’s not a major problem with that. The paragraphs make it clear that local authorities can restrict access on ULR for environmental and safety reasons.

Concerns

There are, however, some concerns about the way the decision is given effect to in the Bill:

· Paragraph (zk) of clause 10 provides for a very generalised bylaw making power which, as drafted, could be argued to extend the bylaw making power in respect of unformed legal roads beyond that intended by government policy. For example, a local authority could restrict all use of ULR in its area by means of a bylaw. It was definitely not the policy to extend the powers of territorial authorities to restrict pedestrian, cycle or horseback use of unformed legal roads beyond the restrictions currently provided for in the Local Government Act 1974.

· It is possible that the wording of s 22AB (2) (a) and (b) of the Land Transport Act 1998 “to all roads” and “to all vehicles” in each of these provisions arguably extend the scope of the bylaws that may be made under paragraph (g) in a way that was never intended or anticipated. The intention is that the purpose of these bylaws should be addressed in respect of a particular unformed legal road, not to the set of roads that come within the jurisdiction of a territorial authority. A bylaw of this scope to control unformed legal roads in this way was never contemplated.

A concern is that the purpose and intent of the originally agreed change (para (g) is potentially undermined in two ways:

* By the potential for the power to apply to all or any set of ULR in a council area rather than a particular set of named or specified roads (as is presently required); and

· The “catch-all” nature of paragraph (zk) of clause 10 risks extending the potential to make bylaws in respect of unformed legal roads that could restrict their public use more than was intended by the approved policies.

In essence, the issue is the potential for the “law of unintended consequences” to arise due to the relationship between paragraph (g) in clause 10 (1) and general power in paragraph (zk).

The Minister of Transport can disallow bylaws that are considered to be “onerous”.

Solutions

There are possible solutions which retain the intent of paragraph (g) in clause 10 (1) while constraining any broad application of paragraph (zk) of clause 10. For example:

- Add a proviso to paragraph (g) in clause 10 (1) that any or part of any ULR contained in such a bylaw must be named specifically together with the reasons and time of restriction;

- Add a proviso to paragraph (zk) of clause 10 to the effect that no bylaw may hinder the right of the public to pass and repass on foot on any ULR and that any or part of any ULR contained in such a bylaw must be named specifically together with the reasons and time of restriction.

The wording of these changes would require fine-tuning.

There is also a recommendation made " that road controlling authorities should be able in certain circumstances (such as declaring part of a road as a bus lane) to use a council resolution, instead of having to amend a bylaw, a process requiring a special consultative process"

There is considerable potential for abuse of that process with the public losing an opportunity for involvement in the decision.

Re: A serious threat to unformed legal roads (ULR)

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:13 pm
by DieselBoy
............and you get this response:


Dear correspondent

On behalf of Hon Steven Joyce thank you for your email.

While the Minister considers all correspondence to be important and all messages are carefully read and considered, it is not possible to provide a personal response to every email which is received.

Where the Minister has portfolio responsibility for the issues that you have raised, your correspondence will be considered and responded to where appropriate.

Regards

on behalf of
Hon Steven Joyce
Minister of Transport
Minister for Communications and Information Technology

Minister for Tertiary Education
Associate Minister of Finance
Associate Minister for Infrastructure