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Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:57 am
by extreme_treeman
Gidday,
have just brought a 1990 Nissan Safari Ute back.
I put new 35's on it yesterday, as it had some on it that were pretty buggered, but they rub on flexion a little.
It has a small(?) suspension lift already...and I couldnt tell you what sort...or even if its been done properly. Is my next option to stop the rub (apart from getting smaller tyres which I dont want to do).....a body lift?
If so...where do I get the parts? Is it hard to do...given I am not particuarly mechanical. What problems can I expect to run into? Do brake hoses etc need to be lengthened?
ALso....I have read in the past about the "death wobble at 80kms"...this does that. obviuously all alignments and balancing were done yesterday when new tyres went on. But it hasnt fixed it........is it therefore a dampener issue?
Cheers in advance
Duane
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:19 am
by SP450andLE
Whereabouts are the tyres rubbing? You could do different things to stop it, depending on where it is rubbing.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:34 am
by juz
If you just want somebody to take a look and sort it out for you, St KIlda Automotive down on corner of Prince Albert St and Richardson St be able to help you, all the guys there are into there 4x4s and Safaris.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:22 am
by 4WDbits
The so called 'Death Wobble' is usually knackered bush or steering damper.
Steering damper can be checked by pulling 1 end off and making sure there is no slackness when moving back and forth.
Bushes can be checked using a pry bar to check both sides and slack.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:35 am
by DieselBoy
To correct the wheel shimmy, try things in this order:
Wheel Balance
Pan hard Rod Bushes
King Pin bearings
The steering damper does less than f#ck all, its just there to absorb some shock out of the steering system under rough conditions, such as hitting a pothole at 100k's.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:51 am
by extreme_treeman
juz wrote:If you just want somebody to take a look and sort it out for you, St KIlda Automotive down on corner of Prince Albert St and Richardson St be able to help you, all the guys there are into there 4x4s and Safaris.
Cool...they will be a good option to go and see
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:52 am
by extreme_treeman
DieselBoy wrote:To correct the wheel shimmy, try things in this order:
Wheel Balance
Pan hard Rod Bushes
King Pin bearings
The steering damper does less than f#ck all, its just there to absorb some shock out of the steering system under rough conditions, such as hitting a pothole at 100k's.
Wheel balance done yesterday....and the rest will need to mechanic to look at as I dont even know what they are.......lol
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:55 am
by extreme_treeman
4WDbits wrote:The so called 'Death Wobble' is usually knackered bush or steering damper.
Steering damper can be checked by pulling 1 end off and making sure there is no slackness when moving back and forth.
Bushes can be checked using a pry bar to check both sides and slack.
There is some slop there...so thought I woudl order a new one of TM.
The self centering ones look quite good...but I wonder if they would be quite vulnerable to getting knocked and damaged.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =361567200
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:58 am
by DieselBoy
I have a Tough Dog self centering one, it makes your steering really heavy when manovering in carparks, but quite good when you on the open road.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:49 pm
by albundy
If they are rubbing on the back of the front wheel arches, sapce the fron taxle forward. You can buy spaces that take them 14mm forward. I did this, no problems.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:22 pm
by darinz
extreme_treeman wrote:4WDbits wrote:The so called 'Death Wobble' is usually knackered bush or steering damper.
Steering damper can be checked by pulling 1 end off and making sure there is no slackness when moving back and forth.
Bushes can be checked using a pry bar to check both sides and slack.
There is some slop there...so thought I woudl order a new one of TM.
The self centering ones look quite good...but I wonder if they would be quite vulnerable to getting knocked and damaged.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =361567200
Don't waste your money just get the cheapest you can find as the difference just doesn't justify the money when the are likely to get damaged.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:13 pm
by Swamped
Download or buy a service manual and have a read. Will help you to see how things work, when you should service etc etc.
As for guard rub flex it up and see where paints missing. If its bearable, ignore it or extend bumpstops maybe. If it was me I'd open the guards more. Bodylift can help but your increasing cog when you do that.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:10 am
by meece4x4
darinz wrote:
Don't waste your money just get the cheapest you can find as the difference just doesn't justify the money when the are likely to get damaged.
My Expensive after market dampner lasted less than 7 months before being hit and bent, have since gone back to the original knackered factory one that i originally replaced trying to get rid of the death wobbles, now with new panhard bushes, lower control arm bushes and re-shimed kingpin bearings and decent tyres it doesn't wobble at all even with a stuffed steering dampner fitted,
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:11 pm
by taz01
hmmm death shake.............. DO THE PANHARD BUSHES ONLY $30 ..............dont do what i done jump to swivel kit
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:22 pm
by extreme_treeman
taz01 wrote:hmmm death shake.............. DO THE PANHARD BUSHES ONLY $30 ..............dont do what i done jump to swivel kit
That sounds like a plan. I'll download a factory manual first though....given I dont even know what they are........but i guess nows a good time to start finding out......lol.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:23 am
by skid
extreme_treeman wrote:Gidday,
have just brought a 1990 Nissan Safari Ute back.
I put new 35's on it yesterday, as it had some on it that were pretty buggered, but they rub on flexion a little.
It has a small(?) suspension lift already...and I couldnt tell you what sort...or even if its been done properly. Is my next option to stop the rub (apart from getting smaller tyres which I dont want to do).....a body lift?
I can't believe nobody has answered your question yet.
I am no nissan expert but have been reading these forums for a while and the most common thing I read is that that the most common thing safari owners do to fix rub when fitting 35s is a 2" suspension lift and a 2" body lift
just throwing in what I have read throughout these forums
SKID
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:51 am
by pruggerdore
Wobble be panhard bushs and are easy to do once you know where they are. wouldnt go for fancy damper as once front end in good condition they drive fine. If you have suspension lift in allready your rubbing issue may be as simple as a massage with a hammer as you say it only rubs a little. first work out where and how much.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:22 am
by SP450andLE
skid wrote:extreme_treeman wrote:Gidday,
have just brought a 1990 Nissan Safari Ute back.
I put new 35's on it yesterday, as it had some on it that were pretty buggered, but they rub on flexion a little.
It has a small(?) suspension lift already...and I couldnt tell you what sort...or even if its been done properly. Is my next option to stop the rub (apart from getting smaller tyres which I dont want to do).....a body lift?
I can't believe nobody has answered your question yet.
I am no nissan expert but have been reading these forums for a while and the most common thing I read is that that the most common thing safari owners do to fix rub when fitting 35s is a 2" suspension lift and a 2" body lift
just throwing in what I have read throughout these forums
SKID
I asked where it was rubbing, so we could get a better idea of how to fix it.
But he must have missed that
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:13 pm
by extreme_treeman
Ok.....Front panhards have been replaced.......but not backs.....so will replace those tomorrow...and see how it goes.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:15 pm
by extreme_treeman
SP450andLE wrote:skid wrote:extreme_treeman wrote:Gidday,
have just brought a 1990 Nissan Safari Ute back.
I put new 35's on it yesterday, as it had some on it that were pretty buggered, but they rub on flexion a little.
It has a small(?) suspension lift already...and I couldnt tell you what sort...or even if its been done properly. Is my next option to stop the rub (apart from getting smaller tyres which I dont want to do).....a body lift?
Havent had a chance to have a look yet......I wanted to flex it up quite a bit and have a good look and even take some photos....but its been at the mechanics because it had a manifold leak.....whcih became a major because it had broken studs.....which was wayyyyy beyond my skills.......lol.
Back hopefully tomorrow....and I will do the panhard tomorrow avo....and then take some pics
I can't believe nobody has answered your question yet.
I am no nissan expert but have been reading these forums for a while and the most common thing I read is that that the most common thing safari owners do to fix rub when fitting 35s is a 2" suspension lift and a 2" body lift
just throwing in what I have read throughout these forums
SKID
I asked where it was rubbing, so we could get a better idea of how to fix it.
But he must have missed that
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:11 am
by extreme_treeman
Man...this truck is turning into a bit of a nightmare...............or maybe its not...maybe its what I shoudl expect from a truck thats 20 years old.
Manifold gasket needed fixing and the studs were broken off...so need retapping.
Have done the panhard bushes...and there is still a reasonable wobble....but to be fair it has been lessened.
Temperature guage just about sits on C the whole time...until I go up a hill and then it raises to where I woudl consider normal. ANy ideas on what this is? I took it to a radiator shock and they pressure tested..and infra-red...and no issues there.
And yesterday I was driving and suddenly huge amounts of white smoke were pouring out of the truck...and upon looking under the bonnet...the oil hose to the turbo had split and was squirting pressurized oil onto the exhaust.
IS it NORMAL TO HAVE SO MANY ISSUES WITH OLDER TRUCKS? Im starting to wonder the wisdom of getting rid of my late model landcruiser. My whole theory was that it was too much money tied up in a truck to be taking it off the road all the time....yet I am starting to throw quite a biit of money at this truck already.....lol.
Anyways...I digress.......I just wanted to update on the progress.......photos will come of the wheel rub...and then I will be able to fix that dependant upon the advise from you guys.
Cheers All
Duane
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:25 am
by flyingbrick
sounds like your thermostat is buggered- just get a new one and the truck should come up to operating temperature without a problem.
What you are seeing is mostly to be expected for an old vehicle. Cant expect a rubber bush to be in perfect condition after 20 years!
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:20 am
by SP450andLE
I consider that perfectly normal for a 20 year old truck. My Lada is 21 y.o. and I keep finding more and more to fix. But once you fix all that needs doing (it would pay to spend a whole day poking and prodding around the truck to find any faults, to avoid them springing up at an inconvenient time) then it should last for quite a while
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:07 pm
by meece4x4
Lol and your's is Newer than Mine
mines one of the very first of the GQ's built in 1988
Man...this truck is turning into a bit of a nightmare...............or maybe its not...maybe its what I shoudl expect from a truck thats 20 years old.
Manifold gasket needed fixing and the studs were broken off...so need retapping.Mines the Same rear stud broken, mine comes loose every other week -- Its a Nissan thing
Have done the panhard bushes...and there is still a reasonable wobble....but to be fair it has been lessened.check your lower control arm bushes next, then kingpin bearing play --- It's a Safari Thing.
Temperature guage just about sits on C the whole time...until I go up a hill and then it raises to where I woudl consider normal. ANy ideas on what this is? I took it to a radiator shock and they pressure tested..and infra-red...and no issues there.mines the same and i fitted a new themostat, fit after-market gauge, Nissan factory gauges are crap anyway .. I think they are rheostated from memory just above cold to Hot is a difference of only 10 deg anyway, Both my Temp and Oil gauges are useless --- It's a Nissan Thing
And yesterday I was driving and suddenly huge amounts of white smoke were pouring out of the truck...and upon looking under the bonnet...the oil hose to the turbo had split and was squirting pressurized oil onto the exhaust. N/a Mines not turbo'ed Sounds more like the previous owners didn't replace the hose's, if they are original most of them will be hard and perished now --It's a .. oh wait that could happen to any truck.
IS it NORMAL TO HAVE SO MANY ISSUES WITH OLDER TRUCKS? Im starting to wonder the wisdom of getting rid of my late model landcruiser. My whole theory was that it was too much money tied up in a truck to be taking it off the road all the time....yet I am starting to throw quite a biit of money at this truck already.....lol.Yes perfectly Normal for a Safari
learn to love their idiosyncrasies, clangs, thumps, bangs and rattles, and they will take you anywhere and get you home again. Dont Sweat the small stuff, I have yet to find a Nissan Safari that "everything" works on it
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:28 pm
by Taz
I view it as a good thing as once you have to replace things like that you know what condition they are in and when you will need to look at them again.
Well, it is a good thing if you plan to keep it for a while.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:16 am
by extreme_treeman
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the input...I'll stop dropping my lip
Get it fixed and move on to the next problem that develops...lol.
Its been a bugger trying to tget the pressurized hose for the oil feed here in Dunedin, so had to get one made and shipped down from cHCH. Shoudl be here today, and then I will be able to fit.,...and hopefully get some photos up of where the rub is. So we can finally address that.
I will look into some after market guages as well as replacing the radiator thermostat.
Cheers
Duane
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:07 am
by meece4x4
extreme_treeman wrote:
Get it fixed and move on to the next problem that develops...lol.
.
Cheers
Duane
thats what I did with mine, when i bought it, it had a few "issues" steering wobble, horrendous vibrations, an interest Clunk/knock under the front, ping's clangs and thuds everywhere, As I only paid just over 4 for it I though what the hell, in the last year I have sorted the wobble (cost about $300 all up and that included things I "fixed" but wasnt the cause of the wobble, mainly steering dampner and wheel bearing, in the end mine was 40% panhard bushes 30% Lower control arm (the rear one's that go into the chassis) and 30% kingpin bearing adjustment, took out 1 shim top and bottom and got the preload back to 1.3kg, drove like a new truck after that.
the Vibration turned out to be the firewall seam starting to let go, 5 min with a welder and she's gone just took 4 moths of head scratching and Living under the truck proding and poking to find the issue
.
over the last 6 months I have found the causes for most of the bangs, thuds and clunks and now I just ignore them
the Safari's Are almost bulletproof, keep up the maintenance and don't thrash the ring out of them and you should 500 000+ out of yours, mine's done 300 000km and im seriously thinking about turbo'ing it now it's just run in
Offroad from factory they are great, with 35's and a lift they go really well, if you have a LSD in the rear and chuck a front locker there's not many place it wont go!
Is it a factory ute or one thats been cut down??
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:35 pm
by extreme_treeman
meece4x4 wrote:thats what I did with mine, when i bought it, it had a few "issues" steering wobble, horrendous vibrations, an interest Clunk/knock under the front, ping's clangs and thuds everywhere, As I only paid just over 4 for it I though what the hell, in the last year I have sorted the wobble (cost about $300 all up and that included things I "fixed" but wasnt the cause of the wobble, mainly steering dampner and wheel bearing, in the end mine was 40% panhard bushes 30% Lower control arm (the rear one's that go into the chassis) and 30% kingpin bearing adjustment, took out 1 shim top and bottom and got the preload back to 1.3kg, drove like a new truck after that.
the Vibration turned out to be the firewall seam starting to let go, 5 min with a welder and she's gone just took 4 moths of head scratching and Living under the truck proding and poking to find the issue
.
over the last 6 months I have found the causes for most of the bangs, thuds and clunks and now I just ignore them
the Safari's Are almost bulletproof, keep up the maintenance and don't thrash the ring out of them and you should 500 000+ out of yours, mine's done 300 000km and im seriously thinking about turbo'ing it now it's just run in
Offroad from factory they are great, with 35's and a lift they go really well, if you have a LSD in the rear and chuck a front locker there's not many place it wont go!
Is it a factory ute or one thats been cut down??
Yep...next prob has developed already...but shoudl be an easy fix.....There was a hissing sound ocming out from under the bonnet when I got home tonight.....upon looking I discovered the aircon hose that runs from the firewall to the front of the engine bay somewhere has got a split in it
Ive done Panhard bushes now....so will try the lower control arms next. King pin bushes sounds like a major....and wayyyy beyond me.
Body lift is the next I think....the rub is occuring where the front tyres meet the wheel arches at the back of the arch...and thats not with very much flex.....so suspect that a ammer wont fix that. Especially as I woudl like to fit mudflaps on the front so I can still see out the side windows. At the moment they are filthy in seconds.
How do I knwo if its got a limted slip in the back? I guess jack one wheel off the ground and rotate? If it wont go round its limited I guess?
And the ute conversion was done in Auckland...i brought the truck off a car sales yard up there about a month ago. Its a wellside now.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:01 pm
by Taz
extreme_treeman wrote:
Body lift is the next I think....the rub is occuring where the front tyres meet the wheel arches at the back of the arch...and thats not with very much flex.....so suspect that a ammer wont fix that. Especially as I woudl like to fit mudflaps on the front so I can still see out the side windows. At the moment they are filthy in seconds.
You will want some spacers to push your front axle forward. Think Al mentioned them earlier in this thread.
Flares do more for your window visibility than flaps.
Flaps on the front should stop the tyres from lobbing mud up into your tray and potentially all over your lunch bag though.
Re: Nissan Safari Wheel Rub
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:03 pm
by meece4x4
Yep...next prob has developed already...but shoudl be an easy fix.....There was a hissing sound ocming out from under the bonnet when I got home tonight.....upon looking I discovered the aircon hose that runs from the firewall to the front of the engine bay somewhere has got a split in it
Ive done Panhard bushes now....so will try the lower control arms next. King pin bushes sounds like a major....and wayyyy beyond me.
Jack the front of the truck off the ground from the chassis and allow the front suspension to drop to full extension, use a long bar and prod and poke around the bushes looking for wear and movement, the bushes at the front of the lower control arm have a steel bush in the center and they can separate from the rubber bush, hard to see without removing it but can cause a fair bit of movement.
the rear bushes will cause backwards/forwards movement if they are worn.
Body lift is the next I think....the rub is occuring where the front tyres meet the wheel arches at the back of the arch...and thats not with very much flex.....so suspect that a ammer wont fix that. Especially as I woudl like to fit mudflaps on the front so I can still see out the side windows. At the moment they are filthy in seconds.
Could be wrong but it sounds like you have a suspension lift in it already, be interesting to know how high it is anything more than 2 inches and you start altering the diff position in relation to the guard, there is a spacer kit that moves the lower control arm forward about 15 mm that stops large tyres rubbing on the rear guard. also Shorty Saf's have known wobble/Vibration issue's if they are lifted more than 3 inches due to driveshaft angles.
How do I knwo if its got a limted slip in the back? I guess jack one wheel off the ground and rotate? If it wont go round its limited I guess?
quick and dirty test is to jack both rear wheels off the ground and rotate them by hand if they both spin the same way LSD if one rotates clockwise and one anti-clockwise then it's open diff.