Discussion about the NZFWDA

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:54 pm

My first question is whats an NZFWDA PRO? And what capacity will that give you to discuss this organisation?

Cheers

Steve

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:05 pm

Hi thanks for the question Steve and prob a good one to start with.

The NZFWDA PRO is the Public relations officer for the FWDA of NZ. As im on the exec for the NZFWDA i deal with public issues and i believe that this forum is a public domain.

Thanks Steve for the question

Nick

NZFWDA PRO.

PS I have a club meeting tonight so will answer any questions when i get home tonight

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:03 pm

Gidday Nick and welcome onboard. The site needs people like you who can shed some light, destroy some myths and generally help the site membership out in a way that is different to the usual mechanical stuff. Adds value I say.
My Questions:
I joined a club for access reasons: helps me get it for some of the extended trips I organise on this site. But I am just about to walk from it because of BS politics. If we form an informal club as an offshot to the whole forum, then can we join NZ4WDA and what are the criteria?.
What will doing this add to our informal trips as opposed to club trips that I already do. What are the differing legal positions if shit goes down?
Al

hiriklux · Post by **hiriklux** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:33 pm

does joining the nzfwda involve some sort of safety check to vehicles?
does it include public liability in the joining fee for trips ect?
does there need to be a representative of the nzfwda as part of the informal ore club?
and if so does cover extend if he or she is not on the trip?
cheers rik

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:34 am

First of all thanks for the comments below, i know by reading the forum here its going to be a battle with some people, but i believe that i can add value to not only what the NZFWDA does, but also the 4wd movment as a whole.

Ok now i will do my best to answer your questions. Ok so i understand i need to know the following if possible,

1. Is the current club you are with a NZFWDA afflicated club.
2. I need to know your meaning of a informal club as to be a affliated club of the NZFWDA there are things that you need to do. Now dont be freaked ou by this as i have just been involved with setting up a new Club in Taranaki and its not to hard.

3. Would most of your members be in one area eg Canterbury

4. What do you believe we as the NZFWDA can offer you at the moment

If you get back to me with the info i would be more than willing to help you setup a club that can be part of the NZFWDA.

Thanks

Nick

albundy wrote:Gidday Nick and welcome onboard. The site needs people like you who can shed some light, destroy some myths and generally help the site membership out in a way that is different to the usual mechanical stuff. Adds value I say.
My Questions:
I joined a club for access reasons: helps me get it for some of the extended trips I organise on this site. But I am just about to walk from it because of BS politics. If we form an informal club as an offshot to the whole forum, then can we join NZ4WDA and what are the criteria?.
What will doing this add to our informal trips as opposed to club trips that I already do. What are the differing legal positions if shit goes down?
Al

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:51 am

Ok you raise good questions here.

Firstly, the NZFWDA does not have a "safety check" for the vehicles of our members, this is generally done at the club level with "Club Rules", at the same time i would hope that most people that go out on trips would carry the min saftey gear in our trucks. I know in the club that im with we suggest that you have the following;

Rated tow hooks, recovery strop, Fire Exting, First aid kit, shovel.

At present there is no "joining fee" for the NZFWDA, we have a yearly subs which for this year is $25. The $25 is to pay for insurance that we have (which is not only public liabilty), our mag, also at present im working on a sponsorship deals with a number of companies that our members will be able to use. The public liability is for runs that the club has mins for.

Ok the rep one is something i believe people here are miss informed about. The NZFWDA is first of all split into three Zones, Southern, Central, and Northern. Each club has a delegate (a spokes person) that will attend the Zone meetings. Then the Zones have there exec committee's that are on the NAtional Exec. At the AGM all members can come along and vote for the President, Sec, Treasurer, PRO. So to answer your question, no there is noone for the NZFWDA exec watching you, the only person that goes to the NZFWDA is the person that you have picked and you give them the voice for your club.

The insurance is only while on a club trip that has a paper trail. Basicly i cant go out tonight for a trip into the forest and burn it down, but if there was a club planned trip into the forest and my truck rolled over i would be covered.

Thanks rik for the questions, keep them coming people

hiriklux wrote:does joining the nzfwda involve some sort of safety check to vehicles?
does it include public liability in the joining fee for trips ect?
does there need to be a representative of the nzfwda as part of the informal ore club?
and if so does cover extend if he or she is not on the trip?
cheers rik

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:33 am

Yes the club I amin is affilitiated with NZFWDA, CLROC. Our "informal club" would have a club structure, just not formalise its meetings , if at all, we may have them in a chat room. Most of us have basic safety requirements when going on trips and I personally insist on proper safety/recovery gear when on our more longer, out of the way trips. I'm anlging at the what insurance cover we can get access to, and I am starting to think that Bill's idea of going through a broker maybe the best as some of our extended trips are on private land/roads.
Al

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:58 am

What Al said. Also the broker I've been talking to is John Barley, who I beleive supplys you guys too. Its the same policy that clubs have, $10 for the first day of a trip per truck, $2 per day thereafter. If we want to do it, I just need to formalise it with John.

btw, I have been talking to Peter about all of the above. He has given me some info re settting up a club and running it by email.

Cheersw,

Biull

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:12 am

I guess you can look at it a couple of ways,

The NZFWDA has a fee of $25 for the whole year, not per trip, if you are only going to do one trip a year then your idea of $10 might work, but as most people do more than 1 trip a year the insurance that the NZFWDA has would be of benefit. Dont forget that $25 per year is not only for the insurance, there are lots of other benefits the NZFWDA can bring to not only a Club, but also a member.

For the people in the South Island you have a very good Southern ZONE PRO for the NZFWDA, and he is very motivated to help any new club that wants to come onboard. Also i will be doing a trip later this year around the South Island (as im from there) and would like to meet up with all the Clubs (both NZFWDA clubs and non Clubs).

wjw wrote:What Al said. Also the broker I've been talking to is John Barley, who I beleive supplys you guys too. Its the same policy that clubs have, $10 for the first day of a trip per truck, $2 per day thereafter. If we want to do it, I just need to formalise it with John.

btw, I have been talking to Peter about all of the above. He has given me some info re settting up a club and running it by email.

Cheersw,

Biull

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:32 am

Give me a call if you want 0272554555 and im more than happy to discuss.

albundy wrote:Yes the club I amin is affilitiated with NZFWDA, CLROC. Our "informal club" would have a club structure, just not formalise its meetings , if at all, we may have them in a chat room. Most of us have basic safety requirements when going on trips and I personally insist on proper safety/recovery gear when on our more longer, out of the way trips. I'm anlging at the what insurance cover we can get access to, and I am starting to think that Bill's idea of going through a broker maybe the best as some of our extended trips are on private land/roads.
Al

PeterVahry · Post by **PeterVahry** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:36 am

Hi Guys, and thanks Nick for coming onto this forum. Al indicated that his club CLROC is affiliated to the NZFWDA but that's not correct. I believe it is part of the Canterbury Combined group of 4x4 clubs.

There was a little error in Nick's comment about voting at the NZFWDA AGM too, as although members may attend of course, the vote is by club delegate only.

Over the past years the South Island had been difficult for the NZFWDA to "service" and as a result we had quite a few clubs drop away from what had been a strong base. That ability to service the wider area of NZ has changed with the growth of email and discussions like these were not possible in the past.
In the last few years there has been a realisation that what the NZFWDA has been doing in it's work with DOC and other organisations, plus the unique insurance cover that we negotiated, really does have value.

As a result we now count among our affiliated clubs, three in Otago, one in Canterbury and one in Nelson. Recognising that growth the recent AGM voted to move the 2007 meeting to the Wellington area to simplify travel for Southern club representatives.

Following Bill Walkers approach earlier this year about "internet" based 4x4 clubs the NZFWDA looked at the possiblity but under the advice of our insurers we found the risks are too high to justify. The only conclusion was that there needed to be a formal "club" structure and rules approved by the NZFWDA as required by our constitution. OK, that introduces "politics" and many things that free spirited four wheelers would rather do without but it's the only way that an insurance company will consider providing cover. We need to protect that insurance too from being misused as that could cost us all dearly in the future.

Keep up the discussion and hopefully it will become obvious that being part of the NZFWDA brings strengths to all our groups.

Peter Vahry
NZFWDA northern public relations

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:42 am

Thanks Peter for the comments above. I was wondering about the CLROC as i couldnt find it in the list.

Guys i want to make it as easy as possible for you to be part of the NZFWDA, just let me know what i can do to help. Also remember the Southern Zone has a very good PRO and im sure he would be willing to help

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:28 pm

My apologies for the mistake, seriously thought they where :oops:

Al

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:16 pm

madaz068 wrote: there are lots of other benefits the NZFWDA can bring to not only a Club, but also a member.

Is this the same organisation which @ a recent delegates meeting supported the national interests of 4Wd'ers by voting an endorsement of *"voluntarily introducing a maximum tyre size of 33 inches"

(please correct me if I am wrong)... and hasn't yet seen fit to publish the results of its 2006 AGM (June 3rd & 4th) on its website (superb communication)?

* Personally, I find that sort of P.C. crap both ignorant and distasteful; more so given that with mandate from "57 old farts" (excuse me Will Carling) such enlightened thinking could conceivably become requirement for future registration.

If the NZFWDA seek to increase their patronage, and purport to offer "national representation", then recognise that all interests must be respected

.

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:24 pm

Once again someone is fueling the fire. I dont now where you got that info from but it is totally incorrect. the NZFWDA has never "voluntarily introducing a maximum tyre size of 33 inches". Some Clubs may do that but it has never been recommended by the National Exec.

The results of the AGM have indeed been sent onto all the Clubs by the National Sec which i know personally have been received by the clubs. If you are a Club member i suggest you ask your Club Delegate for a copy.

This is the sort of things that people are trying to say about the NZFWDA which are totally incorrect.

Also please clarify your comment "then recognise that all interests must be respected "

Its good to clear this one up.

Nick

NZFWDA PRO

Leithfield wrote:
madaz068 wrote: there are lots of other benefits the NZFWDA can bring to not only a Club, but also a member.

Is this the same organisation which @ a recent delegates meeting supported the national interests of 4Wd'ers by voting an endorsement of *"voluntarily introducing a maximum tyre size of 33 inches" (please correct me if I am wrong)... and hasn't yet seen fit to publish the results of its 2006 AGM (June 3rd & 4th) on its website (superb communication)?

* Personally, I find that sort of P.C. crap both ignorant and distasteful; more so given that with mandate from "57 old farts" (excuse me Will Carling) such enlightened thinking could conceivably become requirement for future registration.

If the NZFWDA seek to increase their patronage, and purport to offer "national representation", then recognise that all interests must be respected .

PeterVahry · Post by **PeterVahry** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:27 pm

Leithfield, you have a right to express your thoughts but don't insult, you only reinforce the view that there are those who don't yet get the message. If we keep wrecking the places we go then there will be no places were we can go. I already spend too much time explaining to government departments and councils that they have to understand that there are clowns in vehicles who don't think of the consequences and we all should not be regarded in that way.

Much of NZ is prone to developing deep ruts and ever increasing tyre sizes are not helping. They may be helping your ego but little else.
The suggestion by the NZFWDA conference of a 33 inch limit was to start clubs considering the idea. There may well be a place for bigger tyres in some areas or in competitions but are they really needed for most places?

You grizzle about the lack of speed in updating the NZFWDA website and I agree it would be nice to have that happen quickly but its all done by volunteers because four wheelers are too inclined to spend money on bigger tyres and not on supporting their recreation. If everyone sent us the value of a set of tyres we'd have no trouble finding someone to keep the website up to date!

If you are going to criticise you should tell us your name and what you've done to improve the options for this recreation. Until then don't be rude.

Peter Vahry

DJ · Post by DJ » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:41 pm

Hi
I have read most of what has been said but feel I now want to add my bit
The suggestion by the NZFWDA conference of a 33 inch limit was to start clubs considering the idea

PeterVahry

.

the NZFWDA has never "voluntarily introducing a maximum tyre size of 33 inches". Some Clubs may do that but it has never been recommended by the National Exec

mmm interesting.... is this a play on words or have I got it wrong or did you guys attend different conferences???there is many agruments for and against but it should be( in my opinon)a trip leaders/ organisers preset condition.
Whats next? plasmar rather than wire winch ropes??

clowns in vehicles who don't think of the consequences and we all should not be regarded in that way.

I agree but I dont think they should be insulted or belittled as this is mainly an education exercise to inform the non club membersand endorse to some of the existing clubs ( tread lightly??)

You grizzle about the lack of speed

I think that he was suggesting, rather than grizzling, that he as well as a lot of others would like to see the results of any thing that the conference had to say that will effect 4wding. This is good becase we are showing a interest, its dangerous when people careless. NZFWDA has an influence on most 4wders, be it club members or not. Therefore must represent everyone as a united front in a responsible manner even if it goes against personable beliefs.
I dont like clubs but see a need and will support any establishment of ORE off shoot club.
Now thats over I promise not to get serious again
happy hunting!!!!
cheers

hiriklux · Post by **hiriklux** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:16 pm

right ok
this is the way i see club politics already before we have an ore club the shit has started to be slung !!!!!!!!!!!

this i feel was the idea of the offroad express to exchange tech info and and run informal trips for FUN !!!!!! and avoid shit slinging

what i meant by an informal club is

the people i 4 wheel drive with are a sensible co ordinated group and enjoy informal trips

we understand that we need to join a bigger group to get benefits for access to more areas to enjoy our sport

we understand that one big voice is bigger than ten little ones

but personally i ask my self one big question what we do on ore is fun theres no hassel were safety conscious and responsible we look after 4 wheelers with 33" tyres as much as we do people using 37" tyres its a passion we have towards our sport and fun, which beggs the question for me what will being an affiliated club bring to ore???????????
as stated on the home page of ore there are 1261 members on ore thats a hell of a big club if a quarter of them signed up that would probably make it the biggest single club in nz although it may be both islands
but as a big club, ore would probably be more intouch than most local clubs due to mikes excellant site which is growing even beyond his largest expectations
which brings the question what can ore do for the nz4wda
i feel there must be common ground somwhere here that could benefit both with out having to do all that shit slinging

my apologies to leithfield and peter vahry and madaz068 if i have offended i apologies

RIK PRINCE

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:50 pm

PeterVahry wrote:] ... you only reinforce the view that there are those who don't yet get the message ... I already spend too much time explaining to government departments and councils that they have to understand that there are clowns in vehicles who don't think of the consequences and we all should not be regarded in that way.

Much of NZ is prone to developing deep ruts and ever increasing tyre sizes are not helping. They may be helping your ego but little else.
The suggestion by the NZFWDA conference of a 33 inch limit was to start clubs considering the idea. There may well be a place for bigger tyres in some areas or in competitions but are they really needed for most places?
Peter Vahry

The name's Kevin Dougherty, and rest assured I certainly have the balls to stand behind my convictions. Little wonder I use the term "old farts" when grandiose individuals such as yourself have the deluded arrogance to assume that all those who equip with tyres above 33 inches constitute "clowns in vehicles who dont think of the consequences", and are expressing their "ego". The substance behind those comments can only reflect senility ... or gross naieveity.

My issue with any move to regulate tyre size, other than to take umbridge at your profile of 'outlaws', is that is detracts from that which we all presently enjoy - the freedom of choice; why would the NZFDA advance anything less. My point about a website update per the 2006 AGM is that if the NZFDA wants to be taken seriously as a professional entity, then transparency of process and effective communication must be vigorously championed.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:50 pm

Lets not forget guys that the NZFWDA isn't some big ugly corporation made up of big ego politicians. The guys (and girls) who run the association are just normal 4wders - just like you and me - but unlike us, they have put their hand up to help run the closest thing we have to a united group who have our best interests at heart. They dont do it for popularity or praise, (often they get the oposite) they do it for all of us and the future of our recreation.

It always surprises me how there is always someone who thinks the association isn't worth the measly $25 that we pay. If all they provided was insurance, it'd be a steal! With all the pressure we are feeling from greenies, and P.C. nuts its more important than ever for us to stand together.

Sure the NZFWDA is far from perfect, but if you don't like what they are doing, put your money where your mouth is - I'm sure the association will appreciate your help.

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:54 pm

I think what both Peter and i was saying was yes it was rasied, but not put thro. Yes there is a push for it, but as a National body we have to consider what our members and clubs suggest. But as i stated there is no "voluntarily introduction of 33" tyres as the max"

DJ i think to many people are taking this far to serious. Is what we do have to be so serious. The NZFWDA is to help 4wders in NZ unite, not fight, dont let it get to that DJ, enough of picking on a group of people that perhaps you really dont no the true facts about. Im here to help people, in fact i want to help, not to make you members for the NZFWDA but to get rid of the untrue things that are said on here about the NZFWDA. Shit guys we are just like you at the end of the day, we, well i have a true passion for the sport, i cant wait to the next trip.

I hope this topic of insults is at an end, I have spoken to Peter and i will take the lead in this from now on so you have one voice.

Thanks

Nick

DJ wrote:Hi
I have read most of what has been said but feel I now want to add my bit
The suggestion by the NZFWDA conference of a 33 inch limit was to start clubs considering the idea
PeterVahry
.
the NZFWDA has never "voluntarily introducing a maximum tyre size of 33 inches". Some Clubs may do that but it has never been recommended by the National Exec
mmm interesting.... is this a play on words or have I got it wrong or did you guys attend different conferences???there is many agruments for and against but it should be( in my opinon)a trip leaders/ organisers preset condition.
Whats next? plasmar rather than wire winch ropes??
clowns in vehicles who don't think of the consequences and we all should not be regarded in that way.

I agree but I dont think they should be insulted or belittled as this is mainly an education exercise to inform the non club membersand endorse to some of the existing clubs ( tread lightly??)
You grizzle about the lack of speed
I think that he was suggesting, rather than grizzling, that he as well as a lot of others would like to see the results of any thing that the conference had to say that will effect 4wding. This is good becase we are showing a interest, its dangerous when people careless. NZFWDA has an influence on most 4wders, be it club members or not. Therefore must represent everyone as a united front in a responsible manner even if it goes against personable beliefs.
I dont like clubs but see a need and will support any establishment of ORE off shoot club.
Now thats over I promise not to get serious again
happy hunting!!!!
cheers

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:59 pm

Leithfield wrote: ...and rest assured I certainly have the balls to stand behind my convictions. Little wonder I use the term "old farts" when grandiose individuals such as yourself have the deluded arrogance to assume that those who equip with tyres above 33 inches constitute "clowns in vehicles who dont think of the consequences", and are expressing their "ego".

Mr Dougherty, just out of interest sake, may i ask what contributions you have made to the assoication in an attempt to put right your qualms?

I highly doubt the association would ever imply a limit to tyre sizes. I know the topic has been discussed recently with several clubs implementing such a limit for whatever reasons. However, theres to many of us out there who run 33"+ sized tyres that realise that its not the big tyres that do the damage, for the NZFWDA to ever pass such a rule.

Leithfield wrote: My point about a website update per the 2006 AGM is that if the NZFDA wants to be taken seriously as a professional entity, then transparency of process and effective communication must be vigorously championed.

I'm currently the man in charge of the website, and although most of the updates are done by hard working people within the NZFWDA like Peter and Nick I could always have an extra helping hand?

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:59 pm

Leithfield, look you need to settle down, have a stiff drink or something.

Read the comment above by Jeremy, what he says is true.

Kevin i want to help, but if you do what you did before whats the point in me trying, or perhaps that what you want???

I suggest that if you are a member of a Club that belongs to the NZFWDA, talk to someone there and put your hand up for a role on the NZFWDA.

I hope you have a good weekend

Leithfield wrote:
PeterVahry wrote: ... you only reinforce the view that there are those who don't yet get the message ... I already spend too much time explaining to government departments and councils that they have to understand that there are clowns in vehicles who don't think of the consequences and we all should not be regarded in that way.

Much of NZ is prone to developing deep ruts and ever increasing tyre sizes are not helping. They may be helping your ego but little else.
The suggestion by the NZFWDA conference of a 33 inch limit was to start clubs considering the idea. There may well be a place for bigger tyres in some areas or in competitions but are they really needed for most places?
Peter Vahry

The name's Kevin Dougherty, and rest assured I certainly have the balls to stand behind my convictions. Little wonder I use the term "old farts" when grandiose individuals such as yourself have the deluded arrogance to assume that all those who equip with tyres above 33 inches constitute "clowns in vehicles who dont think of the consequences", and are expressing their "ego". The evidence behind those comments can only reflect senility ... or gross naieveity.

My point about a website update per the 2006 AGM is that if the NZFDA wants to be taken seriously as a professional entity, then transparency of process and effective communication must be vigorously championed.

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:04 pm

Very well said DJ... i was gona say something witty about your comments but I'm still a bit stunned :wink:

Id like some clarification please
What I've got out of this thread to date.... NZFDA's insurance is only good if we are on paper roads

what about private land owners.... particually forestry blocks as this is what I stand the best chance of gaining access for trips... if this is covered then what are the limits (for me to gain access 5mil in puplic and 500tho in fire fighting, we would need at least this) Bill is the insurance your working on up to this??

but if there was a club planned trip into the forest and my truck rolled over i would be covered.

Are you saying there is private cover for our gear if we f... it on a NZFDA trip ?? :shock:

Madaz if this is the case and Bill is able to get usefull insurance I would sugest you take this to the next AGM as insurance and liability is a big + to joe average member

Now a wee bit of my own opinoin...
After running a large club 300+ members, I appaud your efforts and unfortunatly few people who haven't spent the hours and hours working on the side for the club/assosiation don't understand you have to cater to the croud not the individual. the other thing I noticed was the rear'est resorse is help, volinteers :roll:

... give them a break over the website

maybee someone could offer to help
What I used to challange the complainers was a simple comment .... "what have you done.... what can you do..."

There is something else that NZFDA offers and is well worth considering (if the club thing happens....) is they lend us creadibilty... being a national orgainisation for our "sport & recreation" they give us that extra bit of push when working on access and no matter how "ineffective" or "selective" they still fight for access with the bigger powers... and I think we should support that... if someone dosn't we'll loose it

For the books I'm not a member ( :lol:

yea I know I'm a hipocrit) becouse the local clubs don't cater to my interests or clash with them

Thats my bit

Cheers Reece

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:13 pm

Thanks for the comments below.

I now see there is really confusion about the insurance the NZFWDA has. This does not only cover you on paper roads, it covers you for damage to property no matter where you are. Now it doesnt cover damage to your truck, but lets say im in a private forest on a club trip and i roll over and my truck is on fire. The forest burns down. We are covered at present up to 2.5million. But this is being looked at this year to be raised and also adding another policy on as well. So in short you are covered on pivate land on a club trip.

Thanks for the support at the bottom.

Nick

De-Ranged wrote::shock: Very well said DJ... i was gona say something witty about your comments but I'm still a bit stunned

Id like some clarification please
What I've got out of this thread to date.... NZFDA's insurance is only good if we are on paper roads what about private land owners.... particually forestry blocks as this is what I stand the best chance of gaining access for trips... if this is covered then what are the limits (for me to gain access 5mil in puplic and 500tho in fire fighting, we would need at least this) Bill is the insurance your working on up to this??
but if there was a club planned trip into the forest and my truck rolled over i would be covered.
Are you saying there is private cover for our gear if we f... it on a NZFDA trip ??

Madaz if this is the case and Bill is able to get usefull insurance I would sugest you take this to the next AGM as insurance and liability is a big + to joe average member

Now a wee bit of my own opinoin...
After running a large club 300+ members, I appaud your efforts and unfortunatly few people who haven't spent the hours and hours working on the side for the club/assosiation don't understand you have to cater to the croud not the individual. the other thing I noticed was the rear'est resorse is help, volinteers ... give them a break over the website maybee someone could offer to help
What I used to challange the complainers was a simple comment .... "what have you done.... what can you do..."

There is something else that NZFDA offers and is well worth considering (if the club thing happens....) is they lend us creadibilty... being a national orgainisation for our "sport & recreation" they give us that extra bit of push when working on access and no matter how "ineffective" or "selective" they still fight for access with the bigger powers... and I think we should support that... if someone dosn't we'll loose it

For the books I'm not a member ( yea I know I'm a hipocrit) becouse the local clubs don't cater to my interests or clash with them

Thats my bit

Cheers Reece

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:22 pm

Thank you Madaz068, and believe it or not as you may, I do have an open mind on the NZFDA and have clear concience at inference of an agenda. However, I do consider that an informed discussion also involves an examination of contentious issues, and the NZFDA position. It is exactly such misperceptions which can be pre-empted by effective communication

I accept that my response to Peter was reactionary;as much a product of the prose, as was his of my former.

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:27 pm

Thanks Leithfield for your comments below.
I knew by putting myself on here i would come under some fire, but i really do want to help people and there understanding of the NZFWDA.

Nick

Leithfield wrote:Thank you Madaz068, and believe it or not as you may, I do have an open mind on the NZFDA and have clear concience at inference of an agenda. However, I do consider that an informed discussion also involves an examination of contentious issues, and the NZFDA position. It is exactly such misperceptions which can be pre-empted by effective communication

I accept that my response to Peter was reactionary;as much a product of his prose, as was his of my former.

DJ · Post by DJ » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:38 pm

DJ i think to many people are taking this far to serious. Is what we do have to be so serious. The NZFWDA is to help 4wders in NZ unite, not fight, dont let it get to that DJ

I dont intend to take this seriously in fact I was trying every hard to look at both sides of the fence you want humour no problem after all the world needs another unemployed clown thats a mechcanic ??? what I was trying to say is, I think you ( NZfwda ) do a good, thankless at times job, at times, but dont overlook the big picture and listen to others no matter how they express themselves. And I do support NZfwda just not local clubs as they dont support some locals.
There is only dumb answers not dumb questions. Now look what you made me do... I broke my promise I went serious again :lol:

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:41 pm

Very good DJ.

I believe in listening to what people have to say. If there are any ideas that you want taken to the NZFWDA im more than happy to do so.

Have a good weekend DJ

DJ wrote:
DJ i think to many people are taking this far to serious. Is what we do have to be so serious. The NZFWDA is to help 4wders in NZ unite, not fight, dont let it get to that DJ
I dont intend to take this seriously in fact I was trying every hard to look at both sides of the fence you want humour no problem after all the world needs another unemployed clown thats a mechcanic ??? what I was trying to say is, I think you ( NZfwda ) do a good, thankless at times job, at times, but dont overlook the big picture and listen to others no matter how they express themselves. And I do support NZfwda just not local clubs as they dont support some locals.
There is only dumb answers not dumb questions. Now look what you made me do... I broke my promise I went serious again

DJ · Post by DJ » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:54 pm

I believe in listening to what people have to say. If there are any ideas that you want taken to the NZFWDA im more than happy to do so.

yes there is several local issues reguarding access and ownership of tracks(???) but this is not the time or place and will respond after the weekend clown education