Offroad-Express

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/lifting1

It's a quick survey but will need you to measure some points on your 4x4's. Help us if you can and the survey closes Fri 27

At a point midway between the front and rear axles, the measurement from the bottom of the main chassis rail to the ground

At a point midway between the front and rear axles, the measurement from the underside of the lowest part of the floor to the ground


Thank you

Just to clarify, for the second measurement you mean the floor pan of the body, as opposed to the lowest hanging point in the middle of the vehicle like the bottom of the chassis rail, or on some vehicles the gearbox cross member??

yes, it is the floor pan height measurement we are after in question 2. The info will be averaged across all results from similar vehicles and a standard vehicle with the intention of allowing us to work out how big an average body lift is.
in question 1, The info will again be averaged across all results from similar vehicles and a standard vehicle with the intention of allowing us to work out how big an average suspension / tire lift is.
Tony Burgess
NZFWDA.

In-case you don't know what these guys are doing on your behalf, this is the summary quoted from the survey...

There is currently considerable concern from Government Agencies over the safety of “Big Foot” style vehicles. NZFWDA is working with Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association (LVVTA) to establish a system that will allow NZFWDA members to keep their vehicles safe and road legal while still allowing them extra ground clearance. Details are still being worked on, but responsible NZFWDA members have nothing to fear from this change, and are likely to benefit from changes.

As part of this process we are seeking some information on the vehicles that 4 wheelers are driving, specifically information on ride height and are asking for as many 4x4 drivers as possible, to provide us with information on their vehicles.

We have selected four specific models to survey, but are also asking for information on all vehicles. These models were selected because they are commonly seen on NZFWDA events. Please fill in a survey for each vehicle that you use off road. It matters not if this is just very occasional use in a standard road tyred vehicle, or a highly modified, but road legal, competition vehicle; we need a range of information. Non road legal vehicles are not included.

All measurement should be made on flat level ground, with the vehicle unloaded and tyres at normal road pressure.

The more responses we receive, the better we will be able to represent the needs of our members.

This is important, and they could use your help.

ould those that participate, Please ":quote" this post, adding your name so we here, on ORE etc, have some idea of the response numbers?

Thanks


Done.
Moriarty

Will measure when I get home

Moriarty wrote:ould those that participate, Please ":quote" this post, adding your name so we here, on ORE etc, have some idea of the response numbers?

Thanks


Done.
Moriarty

Done Mate

done and hope it helps

I'll do it tonight. Just forwarded the link to all our club members too.

What's the Harness question all about??

Seems like an odd question in relation to ground clearence.

wondered that too but i said yes anyway ,i just assumed they wanted to find out how many people would put them in if they could get it through easier aswell

We want to know what interest there is in having a harness option available, because it all ties in with modifying a 4x4 for competition or at least the more adventurous use that a raised 4x4 might undertake.

PeterVahry wrote:We want to know what interest there is in having a harness option available, because it all ties in with modifying a 4x4 for competition or at least the more adventurous use that a raised 4x4 might undertake.

Interesting. I'll be waiting to see if it gets through.

How bizzare ....no mention of hilux one of the biggest selling 4wd in NZ history

Indeed... but which Hilux version should we have chosen?

Done......

Done tooooooooooo

Done it.

Done

with regards to the harnesses, you can have them fitted legally just not as the primary, you have to have seatbelts as the primary for the road.

and done...they didnt have heights big enough for mine

Done, and another vote for "where's the Hilux?"
Must be more Hilux's used offroad than landrover discovery's

LOLYF wrote:Done, and another vote for "where's the Hilux?"
Must be more Hilux's used offroad than landrover discovery's

Dont worry its not a slight on hilux.. the problem was that there were too many different models of Hilux to consider. At least we included a toyota.

done too

E-Mailed to all Nelson 4WD Club members

emailed to all on the norwest email list too

Done it too, no mention of Isuzu's tho, but I guess they aren't as common as the Hilux which was not in the list.

Cheers.

PeterVahry wrote:Indeed... but which Hilux version should we have chosen?

Solid axle hilux or IFS Hilux or both ..simple really

Why would you fill in this survey.
They have all the info already.
If you do body lift or suspension lift over 50mm or tires larger than 20 % YOU require a cert. And if you dont have a cert you will not get a WOF or insurance or could end up in jail.
What benefit could there be for giving the info they already have.
My Question to LVVTA is Give us the number of crashes that involved cert lifted (BIG FOOT) trucks. Number of 4wd off road trucks that crashed number of mums taking there kidds to school in std 4wd trucks or all the town type 4wd crashes.
Lets see the results and then put the new rules in place if any.

I did send some thing similar and got this back form a member of NZFDA .



Hi Klem, the rules are going to change! There will be a limit on the cert height too. Driven by the 'safety' people at LTNZ and we are working to find ways that NZFWDA members can modify their vehicles.
The data we are looking for is to give some idea of what the current averages are for 4x4 users.

We wouldn't do this if we had any other option.



Thanks for the speedy reply. I seam to remember a state in OZ going done the same track. If any one knows what happened over there. Could help us to fight back and save our up to 50mm lift.

I have heard that the 4 point belts is a given and is going a head any way.
Is this the carrot or the smoke screen to get info already available.
I do wonder if the SAFETY TEAM at LTNZ have got nothing better to do or perhaps one of then could not see over the bonnet when at an intersection with 4wd besides them. That can be a problem and i feel for them but that is not a good reason to change rules that work.

Cheers Klem

Klem,

They don't have the information for all vehicles as you suggest.

Its all about having their (NZFWDA) own stats to work with rather than rely on overseas material.
By getting people to provide these basic measurements it will tell them what the average height/lift people give their vehicles here (for those that are road registered).
They can then match these to the measurements of standard vehicles and they will be able to determine what size suspension and/or body lifts are out there.

Not all vehicles have body lifts and how many are running just a "2-inch) suspension lift without a cert? (Cert not needed for 50mm suspension lifts as long as mounting points are not altered.)

If NZFWDA don't have material to combat any LTNZ proposals, we could be stuck with not being about to get body lifts certified at all or if they are there may be conditions such as having anti roll bars fitted front and rear and they be connected for road use.

Klem, your figures are not quite right. The tyre size increase is only 5% before a cert and there's been no indication to LVVTA that there is any thought of allowing a harness without an 'authority card' such as used by Motorsport NZ.

That 50mm height change you refer to is actually specifically a 'lowering' change by law but it's been slightly bent to be informally interpreted as a change either down or up.

You see, that's the sort of ill-defined rules that we've been working to and LTNZ are concerned that too many risky rigs are on the road now. Certifiers have been questioning whether they are even obliged to test drive some vehicles, as they fear for their own safety.

It is possible to build good safe lifted vehicles and that's not disputed... but it's even easier to build dangerous rubbish. As long as that rubbish is out there, we will all be regarded as risky by the LTNZ and the general public.

If the NZFWDA does not put forward a strong case for our recreational needs, then you will find that the law will be set to severely limit what you and others can do to alter the height of a 4WD.

I'm not suggesting that you don't protest, just don't pick on the NZFWDA for trying to find solutions. Give us the the heights of your vehicles that you consider safe on the road and they'll help to establish a guideline for permitted heights under new cert rules.

Peter