Page 1 of 2
So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:06 pm
by DieselBoy
The new bill just jammed through parliament yesterday defines the so called "Freedom Camping" as the following:
"Camping within 1km of a road or vehicle accessible area in a tent, caravan, campervan or other vehicle or temporary structure."Bye bye back country family get aways, hellow crowded DOC camp sites
The Freedom Camping Bill gives councils and the Department of Conservation (DOC) powers to decide where camping is allowed and sets up an infringement regime with offenders facing instant fines of $200 - or up to $10,000.
The bill also allows enforcement officers to seize property, take down tents and tow vehicles.
Yay for NZ
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:13 pm
by wjw
So if we camp down the Conway in the riverbed, will that count?
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:14 pm
by DieselBoy
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:14 pm
by Pedro
wjw wrote:So if we camp down the Conway in the riverbed, will that count?
did ya drive or walk from the vehicle more than 1 k?
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:15 pm
by wjw
Pedro wrote:wjw wrote:So if we camp down the Conway in the riverbed, will that count?
did ya drive or walk from the vehicle more than 1 k?
No...
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:18 pm
by wjw
dont think the news has got it quite right, just going through the bill now:
Contents › Part 2 Where freedom camping permitted › Subpart 1—Freedom camping in local authority areas
10 Where freedom camping permitted
Freedom camping is permitted in any local authority area unless it is restricted or prohibited in an area—
(a) in accordance with a bylaw made under section 11; or
(b) under any other enactment.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:20 pm
by wjw
and
Contents › Part 2 Where freedom camping permitted › Subpart 2—Freedom camping on conservation land
13 Where freedom camping permitted
Freedom camping is permitted on any conservation land unless freedom camping is restricted or prohibited on the land—
(a) in accordance with 1 or more signs posted under section 14; or
(b) in accordance with a freedom camping notice made under section 15; or
(c) under a conservation Act or any other enactment.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:21 pm
by tweake
what the law says and hows its enforced are two totally different things.
its about time they did something.
i noticed one morning someone had camped on the track into one of the blocks we work/hunt in (private property). at night, green colored tent camped in the long grass of the track, we would have run straight over them with the 4x4.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:22 pm
by damon
its not such a bad thing theres plenty out of the way places most of you prob go its just to stop the tourists shitting at every road side rest area
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:22 pm
by wjw
also it doesnt just apply to vehicle accessible areas:
Meaning of freedom camp
(1) In this Act, freedom camp means to camp (other than at a camping ground) within 1 km of a formed road, a 200 m of a motor vehicle accessible area, or the mean low-water springs line of any sea or harbour, or within 500 m of on or within 200 m of a formed road or a Great Walks Track, using 1 or more of the following:
(a) a tent or other temporary structure:
(b) a caravan:
(c) a car, campervan, housetruck, or other motor vehicle.
(1A) In this Act, freedom camping does not include the following activities:
(a) temporary and short-term parking of a motor vehicle:
(b) recreational activities commonly known as day-trip excursions:
(c) resting or sleeping at the roadside in a caravan or motor vehicle to avoid driver fatigue.
(2) In subsection (1),—
camping ground means—
(a) a camping ground that is the subject of a current certificate of registration under the Camping-Grounds Regulations 1985; and
(b) any site at which a fee is payable for camping at the site
Great Walks Track means—
(a) a track specified in Schedule 1; and
(b) any other track specified by Order in Council made under section 42 as a Great Walks Track.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:24 pm
by DieselBoy
But do read on, I haven't read the whole thing yet myself!!!!!!!!
Is there something in there where they can do the blanket ban across a whole region if they desire??
Very interested to hear others interpretations
To me, it seems that DOC just has to get around and plant No Camping signs were ever they want and it complies with the Law.
Two signs at the point you enter the Conway and you can't camp there???
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:29 pm
by DieselBoy
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:38 pm
by DieselBoy
18 Offences
(1) Every person commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to the penalty set out in section 22(1) who—
(a) freedom camps in a local authority area in breach of any prohibition or restriction in a bylaw made under section 11 that applies to the area; or
(b) while freedom camping in a local authority area,—
(i) interferes with or damages the area, its flora or fauna, or any structure in the area; or
(ii) deposits waste onto in or on the area (other than into a an appropriate waste receptacle); or
(c) makes preparations to freedom camp in a local authority area in breach of any prohibition or restriction in a bylaw made under section 11 that applies to the area; or
(d) deposits waste, generated while freedom camping, in or on a local authority area other than into a an appropriate waste receptacle; or
(e) fails or refuses to leave a local authority area when required to do so by an enforcement officer acting under section 34; or
(f) freedom camps on conservation land within 200 m of a sign erected on the land under to which section 14 applies—
(i) that prohibits freedom camping; or
(ii) in breach of any restrictions set out on the sign; or
(g) freedom camps on conservation land in breach of any prohibition or restriction in a freedom camping notice that applies to the land; or
(h) while freedom camping on conservation land,—
(i) interferes with or damages the land, its flora or fauna, or any structure on the land; or
(ii) deposits waste onto in or on the land (other than into a an appropriate waste receptacle); or
(i) makes preparations to freedom camp on conservation land within 200 m of a sign erected on the land under to which section 14 applies—
(i) that prohibits freedom camping; or
(ii) in breach of any restrictions set out on the sign; or
(i) in breach of any restrictions set out on the sign; or
(ii) where the sign prohibits freedom camping; or
(ia) makes preparations to freedom camp on conservation land in breach of any prohibition or restriction in a freedom camping notice that applies to the land; or
(j) deposits waste, generated while freedom camping, in or on conservation land other than into a an appropriate waste receptacle; or
(ja) refuses to give information when required to do so by an enforcement officer under section 33 or gives false or misleading information; or
(k) fails or refuses to leave conservation land when required to do so by an enforcement officer acting under section 34.
(1A) Every person commits an offence who discharges a substance in or on a local authority area or conservation land in circumstances where the discharge of the substance is likely to be noxious, dangerous, offensive, or objectionable to such an extent that it—
(a) has, or is likely to have, a significant adverse effect on the environment; or
(b) has caused, or is likely to cause, significant concern to the community and users of the area or land.
(2) Every person commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to the penalty set out in section 22(2)—
(a) who, while an enforcement officer is carrying out his or her functions and duties under this Act,—
(i) intentionally prevents the officer from carrying out those functions and duties; or
(ii) obstructs or impedes the officer; or
(iii) assaults, threatens, or intimidates the officer; or
(iv) uses language that is abusive or threatening to the officer; or
(v) behaves in a threatening manner towards the officer; or
(b) who refuses to give information when required to do so by an enforcement officer under section 33 or gives false or misleading information; or
(c) who incites any other person to do any act referred to in paragraph (a) or (b).
(3) In this section, waste receptacle means a receptacle or facility that is provided by a local authority or the Department for the purposes of disposing of waste (for example, a rubbish bin, public toilet, or bulk waste disposal unit).
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:52 pm
by Cameron
take a chemical toilet in the truck and you'll be sweet?
or camp 200m away from the nearest sign unless there's a blanket ban on it.
honestly though, I bet that it'll be a minority group targetted and that's why they've rushed it through. SH1 rest areas will otherwise just be turds stacked ten high during the world cup. If you even have a ranger come across you camping in the sticks, they'll probably be sweet if you're polite, and look like you're making an effort to leave the place in better condition than you found it. UNless you're in a JUCY estima making a mess and being a dick then there'll be no danger I reckon.
Just like blanket boyracer bills. cops target young guys with rowdy cars but let the v8s and harleys with no muffler sail on by coz they're not a problem group that will benefit from being clamped down on, so I reckon you'd be sweet.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:56 pm
by chevrolux
yea its bad enough when you go for a walk on a popular track. get to the hut and you are normally the only nz'er there. then the french/german bastards bugger off early and leave all the mess to tidy them up
lets just not let the pricks past customs. they arent spending any money here anyway so we wont be loosing out.
or maybe i just wont go for easy walks any more lol.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:12 pm
by tweake
tho its not always tourists that are the problem.
family member has quite a lot of people stopping at the end of the road for a feed/piss. tons of rubbish gets left behind. a lot of them are yafa sales people, travelers etc or kiwis.
should put a coin operated toilet there and make some $$$ .....maybe a condom vending machine might make more
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:20 pm
by hosehustler
all these laws being passed lately is a real bummer, I can't build a house on my property because the council have changed the heights after the earthquakes, I can't live there cause the place is a ruin, I have to still pay $450 a quarter in rates even though we don't live there, the new lift laws are an absolute farkin joke, and now I can't pitch the tent in the bush because i drove there
no wonder our middle fingers are becoming increasingly extended at so called authority, so many rules, so many arses.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:50 pm
by Jerry
theres an election coming up, maybe a good time to ask candidates some of these questions
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:41 am
by muddy
I've got no problem with laws coming down hard on people dumping sewerage and rubbish - it probably doesn't go far enough - should impound the vehicle until fines are paid. But the bans on freedom camping suck! We already have virtual blanket bans around Nelson (prohibited everywhere except 2 or 3 specified sites) and Hurinui council who have a blanket ban in the Hanmer valley. Basically they have responded to pressure from Camping Ground operators (many are council owned so a bit of a vested interest) to force people into Camping Grounds. I don't think DOC will be unreasonable - it's the councils you need to worry about. Look at how they treat parking meters - another opportunity for revenue-gathering rather than targeting the problem.
The problem could be largely addressed by requiring all vehicles fitted for camping to have a portaloo to obtain a WOF. Combined with instant fines for sewerage/rubbish dumping, the problem would be solved...
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:24 am
by Mudde1
muddy wrote: Combined with instant fines for sewerage/rubbish dumping, the problem would be solved...
this is exactly what the bill will do. once again there is lots of misinformation on this forum. the bill is not a blanket ban of freedom camping, it just introduces consistent approach across the whole country and makes it clear what councils can and cannot do.
“Freedom camping is an important part of our tourism industry and is a great Kiwi tradition and we want to see that continue,” Ms Wilkinson says.
“The presumption is that freedom camping is allowed except where councils and the Department of Conservation have specifically prohibited it.
“This legislation targets irresponsible campers that are spoiling our most iconic areas with human waste and litter and angering the communities that host them.
“Introducing an instant fine serves as a deterrent and provides councils and DOC with the enforcement tools needed to protect our most pristine spots.”
"This law gives councils the practical tools to control freedom camping. It is a very pragmatic response to the real problem of freedom campers spoiling some of our most iconic places," Dr Smith says.
"Councils have been asking for greater clarity for years and this law allows for councils to define where people can freedom camp, where they can camp subject to self-containment, and where they cannot.
"Freedom campers have doubled over the past decade to 150,000 and the number of complaints for polluting picnic spots has grown in areas like Queenstown by more than five-fold.
"This is a practical law that addresses a growing problem. It will better protect public health, protect iconic spots, and protect New Zealand’s clean, green brand."
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:47 am
by playingInTheDitch
I think they need to interpret what a vehicle accessible area is. our interpretation of that is probably very different to theirs.
apart from that it looks all good
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:17 pm
by kiwipete
As far as I can see, as long as you have a "chemical toilet" or other recognised form of disposing your waste and rubbish collection, you are in the clear?
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:26 pm
by yeti
kiwipete wrote:As far as I can see, as long as you have a "chemical toilet"
well that should be most of ch ch pete
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:35 pm
by DieselBoy
Its interesting that people don't tend to use critical reasoning when looking at political news.
If you take the time to analyse the Bill with a critcal approach, you soon see the potential loop holes for future restrictions on the freedoms of the citizens of NZ in decades to come. Sure the politicians claim its aimed at the international tourists in their campers, but no where in the bill does its state that!!!!
Quoting what certain members of parliament claim the intent of the bill to be and who it is currently aimed it is one thing, but to critically analyse the bill by reading it for your self and reading what is actually stated in certain sections of bill, shows that it is so ill defined in areas, that in the future, aspects of this bill could well be used out side of its intended purpose if a council or DOC chose to do so, and we could be in seriouse trouble.
For now we are safe, the focus is on the RWC, once that has passed and things die down, the bill still remains, but what if the focus changes to another group................
I'm surprised people are so nieve and trusting of the "Rushed Through" approach taken in our country
Its to late to do anything about it obviously, but I do laugh when someone's opinion is based on what polititions have been reported as saying in the media, as opposed to what is actually stated in the Bill itself
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:40 pm
by muddy
A Self-containment certificate requires you to have at least 3 days capacity for storage of fresh water (at least 4l per person per day), grey (waste) water (same qty) and black water (sewage), so it's a bit more than just a portaloo. And there are fairly strict rules around the containers used. The certificate can be issued by any registered plumber or "other authorised person" (authorised by Ministry of the Environment).
However, given the purpose of the legislation, I would expect that a common-sense approach will be taken and as long as people are sensible, then we should be OK. And there are a couple of good clauses restricting councils from a blanket ban, and requiring them to justify banned areas against specific criteria. But there is still room for over-zealous policing for revenue-collection. Time will tell...
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:56 pm
by NJV6
If they find me freedom camping then i'll gladly accept a ticket, and then give them a beer for getting to the campsite!
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:56 pm
by UBZ
Why is it that this law has been passed to grant Councils and DOC more power to lock us out of places... when Laws should be being passed to ensure access as New Zealanders to our own country....
I give you an example of DOC's idea of freedom camping.
Erect gate over original access to a camping area.
Dismantle and remove all existing facilities.
Build 5 perfectly flat gravel camper-van parks in front of said gate and erect a no camping (tenting) sign
Then drop 1080 poison in all the surrounding bush
you only need to drive about the country a little and this is in evidence everywhere......
Then under the new law if the "German DOC person" turns up , gets up in arms or upset that you are having a picnic on the grass , or that the kids are playing in the stream and you get slammed with an instant fine.
And what happens to the average Kiwi when all 5 allocated camping spots are taken by tourists?......
It seems the trend in this country is to lock out access to any public area that is to much effort to manage and that everybody wants to stop, everybody else accessing their perceived own little piece of paradise.
If the tourists in camper-vans are the problem, then restrict the rental of them.
If freedom camping is an issue at public rest stops then wouldn't the solution be to provide more places for people to freedom camp!
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:08 pm
by bruntonjm
for the last 2 summers my partner and myself have gone camping in the coromandal. we were disgusted at the mess the freedomcampers leave behind. they are dumping rubbish, crapping in plastic bags and leaving it beside the road and not allowing others to use public spaces because they have all thier gear spread out blocking access to picnic tables etc.
there are a few rental companies in nz who advertise the benifits of being able to freedom camp whereever they want. these campervans have no porter loo etc. camping in the coromandal costs about $30 per night in a camping ground but the fine for freedom camping there is $15. The locals who i talked to are pissed off with the freedom campers but the council cant really do much, hence the reason for these laws.
i notice on wellington streets they park up all day accumilating parking tickets on thier $2000 vans, then they get onsold after a few months with no recrimination.
Its about time that the worst offenders are penalized, but hopefully those of us that are tidy kiwis are left alone.
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:51 pm
by DieselBoy
To use Macetown as an example:
Doc makes a notice board at the entrance to Macetown area. Around Macetown they draw a big red line, under which they write "No Camping inside the boundary marked in red".
Either that or they plant a series of No Camping signs around which make it impossible to avoid with the 200m rule.
Sure you might not get caught, but your still acting illegally. All they have to do as watch you go in on the Saturday and back out on the Sunday, and they have ya.
UBZ example of DOC's idea of a camp ground these days is a real life example we discovered at the base of the Turoa ski field access a few months ago. Massive great big camp site, 10's of sites with water piped to areas, ablutions block with multiple toilets and showers, would have been a good camp site for your average family camper once upon a time etc etc.
This facility is in total ruin and gated off in favour of 5 new campervan sites on a bare flat piece of ground and a plastic communal toilet.
You wonder why we have freedom camping issues???? Its due to lack of proper facilities for to cater for this market!!!!!
Its far easier to dish out fines than it is to fix the problem by providing overseas tourists with more options and facilities
The govt seem to forget that overseas tourists come from far more poulated and regulated countries generally, so a sign post, an abnoxious officer and a $200 (67 British pounds) fine ain't gonna do squat!!!!!!
Re: So called "Freedom Camping"
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:52 pm
by kiwipete
yeti wrote:kiwipete wrote:As far as I can see, as long as you have a "chemical toilet"
well that should be most of ch ch pete
We ended up with 3!