Offroad-Express

Hi

Thanks for getting invoved Paul and good to see the Combined 4wd Clubs Inc getting involved. Think you and I may belong to same club. Looking forward to the good work that can be done together in the Sth Island and hopefully very soon on a national level.
Al

Are you prepared to work with the NZFWDA as a National Body on access?

The

Lake Sumner Issue
There is a big problem up at lake sumner. the gate has been demolished by vandals, and vehicles are getting up there and ripping up the terrian.
I hope no one on this forum is guilty.
I have been approached by DOC and Hurunui council and there are some big decisions and metings comming up. I will be there flying our flag,
Combined Clubs fought hard to get this gate removed, we lost the battle for open 24/7 access but did get controlled access, and the compromise was a DOC controlled access. and that system has worked (not perfectly) for some years, We were about to renegioate a better solution when this happened so on the back foot once again, (Shit happens I am used to it!)
If any one knows anything or can help pinpoint the people who are creating damage, let them know they are not very smart.
I will be fighting hard to get a renewed access agreemnet but frankly we are fighting a loosing battle if people continue to tear up the place.
Contact me off forum if you want to.
Paul
E-mail:- access4wd-forum@yahoo.com.au

Welcome aboard Paul - your contribution is appreciated.

Can you provide an update as to the access issue concerning the Waipara Gorge, where a private individual has seen fit to both deny and physically impede public access?

access4WD wrote:Lake Sumner Issue
There is a big problem up at lake sumner. the gate has been demolished by vandals, and vehicles are getting up there and ripping up the terrian.
I hope no one on this forum is guilty.
I have been approached by DOC and Hurunui council and there are some big decisions and metings comming up. I will be there flying our flag,
Combined Clubs fought hard to get this gate removed, we lost the battle for open 24/7 access but did get controlled access, and the compromise was a DOC controlled access. and that system has worked (not perfectly) for some years, We were about to renegioate a better solution when this happened so on the back foot once again, (Shit happens I am used to it!)
If any one knows anything or can help pinpoint the people who are creating damage, let them know they are not very smart.
I will be fighting hard to get a renewed access agreemnet but frankly we are fighting a loosing battle if people continue to tear up the place.
Contact me off forum if you want to.
Paul
E-mail:- access4wd-forum@yahoo.com.au

wlcome to the site Paul, good to see the combined clubs flying there flag here in a positive manner
Tim Evans

Im sorry to disagree with you but the NZFWDA does have members in CHCH, and also all over the South Island. To say we are are North Island based, is not correct.

I believe that we should work together for access on all areas otherwise we will be perhaps pushing for access to the same areas and this doesnt look good for either of us.

access4WD wrote:The question from Madaz068:-
Are you prepared to work with the NZFWDA as a National Body on access?
Reply:-
When there is a need yes
However we have a lot of local issues that we are dealing with and we are basically local people dealing with local issues. Big access issues for us are all Regional or South Island specific.
NZ4WDA do a very good job for thier clubs who are in the main all North Island based, and our issues we have here are seldon are in common with NZ4WDA. Also Combined 4WD Clubs is driven from it's member Clubs base (the owners of Combined if you like) and none of those clubs belong to NZ4WDA so in essence we are working for the similar over all goals & issues but at different regional and activity level.
Paul

Leithfield wrote:Welcome aboard Paul - your contribution is appreciated.

Can you provide an update as to the access issue concerning the Waipara Gorge, where a private individual has seen fit to both deny and physically impede public access?

The Gorge is very much Public land - no one is permitted to string a physical barrier across it - making maps for DOC - I have all the detail in a file somewhere if anyone wants a copy

BrentC wrote:

Leithfield wrote:Welcome aboard Paul - your contribution is appreciated.

Can you provide an update as to the access issue concerning the Waipara Gorge, where a private individual has seen fit to both deny and physically impede public access?

The Gorge is very much Public land - no one is permitted to string a physical barrier across it - making maps for DOC - I have all the detail in a file somewhere if anyone wants a copy

click below for

Land ownership detail pics

Thank you for the pics - do the signs (denying access) and bollards (physically restricting access), which I believe have now been supplanted by 'flood protection gates', constitute legal or illegal activity?

Leithfield wrote:Thank you for the pics - do the signs (denying access) and bollards (physically restricting access), which I believe have now been supplanted by 'flood protection gates', constitute legal or illegal activity?

I don't know the current state - my informant has moved to Aus

But the farm has no legal rights to alter the water course - it can I assume apply for a resource consent etc to do work on their land - inside the yellow line - personally - if I lived in the area - I would be pounding on the local and regional council desks to have them prosecute the pretentious %$$##'s

I have forwarded this onto someone we use in the NZFWDA for comment, ill let you know soon

Nick

Hi, I was up at lake sumner about a month ago, the people I went with were under the impression that access was permitted. I dont think (but dont quote me) they had sought "permission" to be there.

However, the only sign we saw about access said "no crossing the hurunui", there was nothing in regard to the track. We also saw another vehicle up there (appeared to be locals, carrying equipment/supplies) and they waved and smiled cheerily....and some motorbikes as well.

I was thinking of another trip up there, as it's a beautiful place to visit, is this still permitted with DOC permission?

And to ease your mind, we were "cruisin", not racing around

The gorge end:-
Public access is OK, Claremont Farms which owns land from about Laidmore Road (above the gorge) on the true right down to Boby Steam. There is no queens chain on that side. (the detail is shown clearly on the maps that Brent C has provided) Claremont Farms are claiming ownership to the centre of the river. (AMAF Rights and old common law right) They are concerned over river damage through misuse abuse and some hoon activity and people who leave the river bed and trespass onto their land.
So all Claremont Farms say is simply advise first that you are going up there. Their signage there request permission we disagree, but we suggest that phone them on 03-314 7559 or email relax@claremont-estate.com prior to going up simply as a courtesy, not seeking permission just letting them know that you will be there you will not leave the river bed and trespass etc. People who respect the river they have no issues with, and to my knowledge most people are happy to follow that simple request.
Combined 4WD Clubs view is that whilst we do not support a AMAF claim nor can Claremont or any neighbouring land owner stop access along a waterway, the sensitive nature of the Waipara Gorge is worth preserving and if this simple request system works and it allows good access yet without impacting negatively on the landscape than lets support it and lets respect it.
With regard though to Bollards & Flood fences, they are a different matter. The bollards have been removed as I laid an official complaint with E-can they investigated it and there was no consent issued hence their removal.
I understand that there are now a new stock fence there, and that legal right to be there will in time be questioned by us, however in the mean time any restriction to the river will be swept out to sea as the river is running very high again at present.
Paul

access4WD wrote:With regard though to Bollards & Flood fences, they are a different matter. The bollards have been removed as I laid an official complaint with E-can they investigated it and there was no consent issued hence their removal.

Good man

Madaz068 wrote:Im sorry to disagree with you but the NZFWDA does have members in CHCH, in clubs that belong to the NZFWDA, and also all over the South Island, to say we are a north Island based mainly in not correct.

I believe that we should work together for access on all areas otherwise we will be perhaps pushing for access to the same areas and this doesnt look good for either of us.

My reply:-
Firstly no Christchurch based 4WD Club is a member of NZ4WDA. I understand Mid Canterbury Club is and they are not part of Combined 4WD. Individual members may well be members, but I address only the club situation.
Secondly regarding working together I have no commnet here as it is not within by brief. Plus I believe this forum is too open to discuss the issue, If you feel strong on this then I suggest we can talk off forum or alternativally NZ4WDA can formally approach Combined. May I say I know there were efforts made in the past from both sides and nothing happened.
Cheers and thanks for your commnets.

Paul

Goose asked:-
is this still permitted with DOC permission? (reference to Lake Sumner)

Yes DOC still run a booking system for Lake Sumner. However it is normally not open from June through to September.
So even though the gate has been ripped out it is still worth while us following the rules.

Paul

Cheers for that.

just some more info for you on the lake sumner gate. i was up there between xmas and new year and the gate was sone then. looked like it had been cut off at ground level with one of those fancy petrol grinders that has been posted here. there were heaps of 4wds tearing through there around xmas. do you know when the gate was ripped out?

if this simple request system works and it allows good access yet without impacting negatively on the landscape than lets support it and lets respect it.

I disagree wth you on this one Paul.
sounds like appeasment to me. If I let him know I'm coming, even though he dosen't have any rght to the river, even though I am a responsible 4wdriver I am giving in to hs demands in one way or another. Definitely sounds like appeasment Look what appeasment did for the world back in the 1930's. I see it everyday in my monlithic employer and it's an insidous beast that can F**k things up in the long term. Challenge them fight them on the beaches so to speak.
Al

Waipara Gorge
Al, your disapproval noted, but that is our position. and I am not prepared to argue that position on line I will discuss it with our Combined committee next meeting as I do appreciate your feedback.

Changing Thread Mike
Thanks Mike for the change it was getting a bit off the track, I appreciate your moderation efforts.

Paul

Many thanks for your reply Paul (in followup to my earlier question).

Didn't want an arguement, just voicing an opinion that I and many in canterbury on here share. I just said what they were thinking. I appreciate you hearing it. I can also understand from your position too.
Al

Now isn't that nice, everyone "foruming" nicely to each other

I can see both points, I feel both are relevant, but do you think that placating the farmer by giving him a courtesy call might help to relieve the worries he has about people going off the track and on to his land?
This could possibly (i emphasise POSSIBLY) also help to stem the tide of complaints from the farmer if he feels his concerns are being addressed.
However, I do agree with your point that it is public land, and access should not be hindered regardless.

Hows that for classic fence sitting, huh??!!

Cheers, thats my 2cents for today

Goose wrote: ... do you think that placating the farmer by giving him a courtesy call might help to relieve the worries he has about people going off the track and on to his land? This could possibly (i emphasise POSSIBLY) also help to stem the tide of complaints from the farmer if he feels his concerns are being addressed.

And, were it accepted that the above represented said Farmer's principal concern, rather than supposed domain of feudal lord on papal crusade to exile antipodean peasants from the eyes of affluent gentry, that would represent an entirely reasonable proposition !

Kev,

your going to choke on that bloody dictionary

rokhound wrote:Kev,
your going to choke on that bloody dictionary

Nah - had I drawn on a dictionary I would have discerned the imprecise juxtaposition of "represented and "said" .

pass kev another beer

Leithfield.
No.

NO!!, AH!! NO!! HOT!! NO!!!!!!

and i did emphasise "possibly"