Surf diff question

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:22 am

Hi All.
I just picked up a 96 surf (3rd gen, 3.4L petrol) and have a couple of questions.
The 4wd selector lever has 4 postions, H2.H4, H4L, N, L4L. Usually it's in H2.H4.
There is a dash indicator for 4wd modes, when I hit the 4wd button on the side of the stick, the 4 wheels on the indicator turn green. If actually shifting the lever into H4L, an orange light in the centre comes on as well. My first question is, is this some kind of diff lock?
My second question, I can shift from H2.H4 to H4L anytime, but do I need to stop to shift into L4L?
Thirdly, does it make any difference what position the 4wd button is in in H4L and L4L?

Thanks in advance.

MNC · Post by **MNC** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:54 am

Hi Kerry,

Welcome to the site, there are pleanty of guys here that will have specific knowledge on your truck so you are in good hands.

I`m not familiar with the Surf but have driven a Rav4 that had a similar green light on the dash which indicated the centre diff-lock was activated.

As for the other gears:
High 2wd
High 4wd
Netural (so you could run a PTO without turning wheels)
Low 4wd

If you are shifting from the high gears you better make sure you`ve at least slowed a heap before changing into the low gears - in my Terrano I could change between them while rolling with the clutch in.

H4L & l4L ??? I`m not sure sorry mate but I`m sure someone on here will know. Hope that helps in some small way. :wink:

krawlr · Post by **krawlr** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:31 am

hi kerry yes you eant to be stationary when selecting low 4wd.

the light just indicates theres drive to the front diff(theres no diff lock)

when wanting to select 4wd high you can actually be moving and hit the switch (only in high thou)this method should be done at a speed no more than 50 ks(people say faster but youle get massive bind up with youre front drive and could cause damage in the long run).

hope this helps.......... youre system(add)is the same as the gen 2 surf both having the elec servo for the transfercase ingagement and its a bloody good setup :wink:

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:49 am

Hi, I have a 96 kzn185 (Diesel version)
You can push the 4wd button at speeds up to 100 kph as this puts the vehicle into full time 4wd. Shifting the lever to 4hl locks the centre diff and should be done when moving slowly or stopped.
The orange light indicates the centre diff is locked.
It is not the same as a 2nd gen as they do not have full time 4wd

By the way what sort of milage do you get out of the V6?
My diesel does about 500-550 ks per tank around town.

Mark

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:20 am

Thanks for the quick replies. Unfortunately some contradictions above still leave me guessing a bit, so I've been trawling the net for more info, and my heads fairly spinning!
It sounds as though these surfs have locking rear diff only as an option, is there an easy way to tell? When out in the snow yesterday there did not seem to be much difference performance wise weather the centre orange light was on or not.

To LOLYF, I'm not sure about the km's yet, only had it 2 days! Went for petrol as they are 3-4k cheaper than the diesels, and with the rise in road user charges last week, cost the same to run now. In fact when you count the down time for the extra servicing (every 5000k or 7500k with filter) diesels need, petrol makes better sense. (More power too!)
Re. 4wd there is a difference between full time 4wd and part time, my surf is a part time, but my Hi-ace custom (3L diesel turbo 1KZ-TE) is full time 4wd. Hard to believe but the Hi-ace is better on ice than the old surf with part-time 4wd! (We live in the Alps)
To explain: I had a 95 surf (3L petrol 3VZ-E) but it had an automatic lever for 4wd selection, real easy to use, and no fancy lights like the new one, hence my questions above.
Cheers

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:54 am

The 3rd gen surfs (96 on) have part time and full time settings.
Part time centre diff locked ,orange light on
Full time centre diff unlocked ,orange light off (green wheels on)

Don't get the centre diff lock confused with cross axle diff lock!
any way hope that clears it up i'm off to the garage to finish installing my rear axle diff lock to my surf.

p.s let me know how you go on that fuel economy im interested!

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:19 pm

Ahh, Thanks, thats what I was after.

My next question is whats the difference? Why bother with the centre diff lock, I couldn't really make out any difference performance wise.

Cheers

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:20 pm

In severe conditions full time (open centre) will alow one wheel to spin on the entire truck ie one front or one rear.
In locked postion it will turn at least 2 wheels ,one front and one rear
this is all asuming you dont have a lsd in the rear diff.

padero · Post by **padero** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:51 pm

hi guys i have a 93 3L v6 surf also and i can get about 400/450km to a tank at highway speeds shit around town lol

you can find out if you have a rear lsd by looking at the enginebay plate and getting the number from there and refering it to the information on this site somewhere not shore never had to look. think if it has a 5 at the end then you have an lsd this is wat i have.

ad

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:41 pm

Thanks LOLYF, I have found an article "diffs for dummies" (google it and you'll find it) and you are dead right. It gives a damn simple explanation compared to all the others I've read.

And no, no LSD, which leads me to another question. (Sorry!)
Is it worth the trouble (or even possible) to remove the LSD from my 2nd gen 95 surf, (write off, long story....) and install it in my 3rd gen 96 surf?
Will it bugger up the ABS brakes?

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:22 pm

As long as the ratio is the same you can swap the LSD head straight into the 96 surf ,my deisel has 4.1 to 1 diffs not to sure about the petrol version.

I've just installed a lockright equiped diff head into my surf (between my second and third posts on this thread!) and seems to work fine no problem with the ABS so far.

Mark

krawlr · Post by **krawlr** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:32 am

lolyf its abloody surf there aint a centre diff

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:37 am

Krawler, can you explain how full time 4wd works without a centre diff?

go do some more research and stop giving poeple false information.

krawlr · Post by **krawlr** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:03 am

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:43 am

It's hard to argue with an idiot, they drag you down to there level and beat you with experience!

krawlr · Post by **krawlr** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:27 am

did someone leave the tap on :?:

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:59 pm

The 95 surf did not have a centre diff, but the 96 certainly does, from what I've read all 3rd gen Surfs do.
From the Trans/Axle code (A340F A02A) a chart I found on the net tells me I have a 7.5", 3.58, 2 pinion open diff. (No LSD)
Bugger, coz I'm pretty sure all the 2nd gens have an 8", so I guess I cant swap them over.
Oh, and I found a new button! It has "soft/hard" with a picture of a shock on it, self explanatory I suppose, but what actually happens under the vehicle when you use it?

And does anyone else have one of the ex-factory stereos with the TV in their surf? The TV works fine, but I'd love to know how to get the Nav system working, my Japanese is a bit rusty....

And Mike, I remember reading somewhere that the ABS on 3rd Gen Surfs is independant on the front wheels only, so you should be fine with LSD on the rear.
Cheers

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:07 pm

Kerry65 wrote:Oh, and I found a new button! It has "soft/hard" with a picture of a shock on it, self explanatory I suppose, but what actually happens under the vehicle when you use it?

I little stepper motor turns a small shaft in the top of the shock, which opens and closes a bypass valve to allow the oil in the shock to pass more or less freely, depending on the switch setting...

Kerry65 wrote:And Mike, I remember reading somewhere that the ABS on 3rd Gen Surfs is independant on the front wheels only, so you should be fine with LSD on the rear.
Cheers

This is true of most live-rear-axle 4WDs I think, they have sensors on both rear wheels (In the later MU's and Wizards its the wheel bearing retainer ring that has the ABS sensor grooves in it), but one common brake line to the rear, so the computer probably does some fancy calculations based on both wheels rotation and decides when to do its thing with the back end...

Steve

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:37 am

I don't know what toyota did with the diff codes on the third gens as mine is the same but I can asure you the rear diff is an 8".
I have just fitted a 4.1 diff out of my 91 hilux straight into my third gen , so they do swap over.

Mark

By the way my rear diff was a four pinion so the code does not make sense at all its wrong on all three facts!

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:17 pm

Nuts. I am too late to swap the diffs over, the wrecker has finally claimed to old Surf and towed it away. If I want it now I will have to pay for it!

Yeah, that chart must be way wrong, I might e-mail the webmaster of that site & tell him he's putting people crook.

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:06 am

Mark, I have finally got around to putting a couple of tanks of gas right thru the 3.4L petrol engine. It's getting around 420km's to the point where the red light comes on around town type kms. (Liberal use of 4wd, A/C, and ECT pwr buttons of course, as it's still a new toy ;-)

)
Highway might get me up to 480kms I guess, with 10 litres in reserve. This is better than my old 1995 3.0 V6 petrol, which rarely got me over 400kms on the same amount of gas.

My 1994 1KZ-TE hi-ace 3.0 turbo diesel (permanant full time 4wd) only gets me around 420kms highway, and just cost me $650.00 for 20kms of RUC.
Thats why I reckon the petrol is cheaper to run, but your Surf sounds like it does quite a bit better than the Hi- Ace. (Disengaged 4wd helps a lot I guess, and you must have 3rd gen engine?)
Wonder if free-wheeling hubs might help on the Hi-Ace.
Cheers

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:33 pm

sounds like the V6 is quite good on gas! better than I expected.
I've just done a trip to national park for a couple of days 4 wheeling, My surf used 120 liters of diesel to do 980 k's.
At todays prices thats about $148+$30 odd for road miles.
It doesnt seem to make alot of difference around town or highway!?
It also seems to use more with the slightly bigger mud tyres i've just put on it, or could be clocking up less k's becouse of them, throwing my figures out.

cheers
Mark

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:57 am

Theres another angle to the petrol vs diesel debate that has only come about in recent times.
The price of big petrol engined SUV's has fallen thru the floor! I paid 9k for this surf, (1996, 3.4L petrol, 148,000kms, good condition etc) the same vehicle in diesel would be around $15K !!
Thats a lot spare cash to spend on petrol, if you want to look at it that way...
Take a look on Trade Me (where I found this vehicle) and you'll see what I mean.

mytronic · Post by **mytronic** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:38 pm

Kerry65 wrote:And does anyone else have one of the ex-factory stereos with the TV in their surf? The TV works fine, but I'd love to know how to get the Nav system working, my Japanese is a bit rusty....

As far as I am aware you will never get the GPS working, as you will require the Map CD which will not be available for New Zealand.

Kerry65 · Post by **Kerry65** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:47 am

Yeah, same goes for the telly apparently, they use NTSC in Japan, and we are PAL, theres no way to convert the signal cheaply at this time.
Still, the CD, Tape deck & Radio work fine, so I'll probably leave it in.