Terrano td27 turbo fails dramatically...

[natesterrano]

Hey guys i bought my first 4x4 this year in march, a 93 terrano td27. I was real happy with the car but since then Ive had a few problems....

Anyway driving back from manukau on the weekend accelerating onto the onramp heard a loud wooshing sound which sounded like a pipe on the intake manifold letting go. I pulled over to have a look but couldnt see anything so kept on driving home, albeit slow enough as to not boost.. ( which is very slow)

Got home and started disassembly, and what do you know the turbo has shat itself.... great! The Compressor section of the turbo is absolutely rooted! There are 12 blades in total, 6 big ones and the 6 little ones in between. Every Big blade has a large chunk missing from it..

So heres my question, as this terrano has no intercooler will engine damage have occured from the intake blades heading through the engine? ( Im assuming they did, as I recovered no blades or pieces off metal when i took the intake manifold apart. ) The truck seemed to be running fine as long as it wasnt on boost..

I received my new (secondhand) turbo to install today, but unfortunately that had a crack through where the wastegate seats so another one is hopefully on its way tommorow.

Any advice as to what you would do in this situation would be appreciated. Im not that keen to pull the head off but by the looks of it, it doesnt look like too bad a job if need be.

[Crash bandicoot]

my skyline ate the end of a spark plug once. didn't worry it.

The pieces missing off your turbo a most likely trapped in the gung and oily residue inside your intake manifold.
but in the case they may have made there way to the valves, the will do minimal damage, nothing a re honing of bores and re seating of valves wount fix and that's the extreme case scenario. .

I have never seen any failed turbocharger stop an engine working yet.

[tweake]

time to pull the head.
there will be bits gone through the motor, you will need to inspect what damage has been done. seen a few navaras do the same and they tend to stuff the bores.

[natesterrano]

So you think best to pull the head? I was thinking I could do a compression check, or will that not be enough of a telling ( btw, im guessing this is through the glow plug holes on a diesel?) Sigh.. i guess im going to take thursday off work also. Do you think there will be much damage?


Ive cleaned alot of the gunk out of the intake manifold and havent seen any bits..

[sibainmud]

If it is a manual, you could sell it me
Seriously, it can be a bit of a punt if it has caused any damage. Up to you what you do from here. Do you throw good time and money at it to find nothing wrong? Or just replace turbo and go til it blows. I have blown 3 turbos on the same motor, once with no inter cooler and just put second hand turbo on with no problems, but then I'm known for being rough
How much are these turbos costing you?
Do you have to send the one with cracked wastegate back?
Thought about swapping exhaust snail housings?

Cheers,

[natesterrano]

Yeah i see what you are getting at. I do want to treat it well, as i want it to be reliable. I also have to weigh this up against the cost factor as i am not made of money.

Do you think a compression test would show up damage, or do you really need to eyeball it?
For removing the head, is there anything to look out for.? Seems pretty straightforward being pushrod and all.

Got the turbo from niscars in wellington, really good guys. Was 325 shipped to auckland with a 90 day warranty. He is going to replace it free of charge.
Was thinking of swapping the exhaust sides over but decided against as the turbos arent 100% identical, and the wastegate diaphragm and plunger differ somewhat.

Whered you mount your intercooler?

[tweake]

compression test will tell you that its already stuffed but it won't tell you if it will be ok. an endoscope poked in might see any damage but won't see if anything is sitting in the rings.

just a question of do you want to run the risk.

[Crash bandicoot]

Running the risk....? by pulling the head off isn't going to tell you what is stuck in the rings. you have to remove the pistons for that.....

seriously, It's not good, but it aint bad ether.

and if the piece of blade is fine enough to make its way down between the bore and the piston and lodge itself in the ring, then it isn't an issue the block is hard then the blades on the turbo and it will soon wear it down to nothing.

i see super cheap has got those fibre optic LCD screen endoscopes on special at the mo....could be the go.

[natesterrano]

Yeah wouldnt mind having one of them. Dont know if it would small enough to get past the valves tho

So are you saying if the compression check is good there is no damage? Or more that even if its good there still could be debris in there?

What stuff should i buy if im going to do the head?

[tweake]

from what ive seen is the fins tend to get broken up by the pistons and end up as fine bits in the rings. with a bit of driving it can score the bores quiet badly.

[natesterrano]

Right, I understand. So you'd just pull the head and remove any debris?

What should I order if doing the head other than a gasket?

Cheers

[sibainmud]

Decarb kits are quite dear, so just get head, intake and exhaust gaskets separate from BNT or alike. I have a spare head gasket on the shelf, had it for years never had to use it though

Endoscope won't see much except the pre-combustion chamber.

Cheers,

[Sketchy_Racer]

99% chance any bits that went through are already out the exhaust.

Personally I would not waste my time pulling the head, just put the new turbo on and go for gold. Chances are if the chunks were going to cause damage, it would have already happened so you wont gain much by pulling the head.

[natesterrano]

Yeah I'm gonna weigh it up tomorrow. I drove maybe 10kms after initial noise albeit very slowly. Surely most pieces would have evacuated..

On the head, can you reuse the bolts?

[Crash bandicoot]

we had this discussion the other day, if they are torque to yeld yes...i.e done up to 120 ft pounds for example.... if the manufacture says torque to yeld then turn 90 degrees they are throw aways.

[DEATH_INC]

Pretty sure they are torque to yield jobbies, though I re-used mine anyway and they've been fine for the past 8 years or so since I did it.....

I have a question for those in the know, how does a soft ally blade score a hard steel bore?

I'd be more concerned about what went through there to destroy it like that...

[natesterrano]

Bearing failed, causing blades to hit housing.. nothing went through it that I know of.


Decided to just do a compression check then whack another turbo on.
Anyway, does anyone have the fuses to pull when doing the compression check? My fuse diagram is in Japanese

[sibainmud]

Anyway, does anyone have the fuses to pull when doing the compression check? My fuse diagram is in Japanese

Just disconnect the run solenoid on the injection pump. Isolate the glow plug wire and all good.

I hear ya DEATH_INC

Cheers,

[Sketchy_Racer]

I have a question for those in the know, how does a soft ally blade score a hard steel bore?

Few different reasons for the aluminum to wear on a steel bore, the main one being is that ally work hardens much like stainless steel and under the sort of circumstances such as being wedged in between a piston and a bore, it will end up being under massive force (under operating temperatures a piston can literally be a press fit into a bore with only the oil on the bore's wall acting as a fluid bearing) So imagine the force and energy involved when the piston is firing up and down at 60 times a second while this irregularly shaped piece of hardening metal is sliding up and down breaking the fluid bearing from the oil causing metal on metal contact.

Also, I'm not sure about in that sort of environment but part of what gives aluminum such great corrosion resistant properties is that when an oxide (rust) forms on the surface of aluminum it becomes incredibly hard if this oxide formed whist this piece is in the motor (heat and oxygen) the oxide would be much closer or even harder (not sure) than the cast iron bore.

Anyway, food for thought.

BTW, are you the same Death Inc that has a 750 Kawasaki Turbo bike?

[DEATH_INC]

BTW, are you the same Death Inc that has a 750 Kawasaki Turbo bike?

Yeh, from KB, same Me. How goes the racing?
Interesting explanation btw.

[natesterrano]

Received the turbo this morning, went to install it only to realise the mistral turbo has a wider oil feed line and a slightly larger oil return line. Aargh, why Is nothing easy? So niscars is sending the piping off the mistral up for tomorrow morning. Just hoping the oil feed line on the filter size is the same otherwise I'm going to have to drill and tap that to make it fit.. hopefully there will still be enough meat for the washers to seal against.. any thoughts?

[Paulballz]

what a drama with the turbo for you. I have got a whole td27 engine including turbo (rebuilt some time ago but still runs fine) that had done 170km if interested, i only removed it due to injector pump sucking small amount of air that pissed me off enough(still ran just needed priming every now and then) now am doing rb conversion... if your interested pm me will sell alot cheaper than your get one for

[lax2wlg]

I once saw a Land Rover 200Tdi engine runaway due to to turbo seal failure. Once the engine got a taste of its own lubricant, it quickly revved itself to destruction.

A great reason to keep a Co2 fire extinguisher onboard, apparently dowsing the intake will choke it, if you make it early enough.

[natesterrano]

So, I got the turbo in today... almost!

Everything was going well until i went to put the outlet water pipe on and noticed it was blocked! Then i checked the flexi pipe that the went into and that was blocked also! Followed it right up to the block and everything was blocked, which means the turbo was getting no cooling whatsoever... Does anyone know if that would have contributed to its failure? Also, i was having a coolant overpressurising problem, which i couldnt work out what from ( i checked the coolant with a teekay head check tester and it came up negative so I discounted the head gasket ) I am hoping that with this turbo cooling working it will have stopped that problem as well.

So anyway, i tried unblocking where it joins to the block first, as I knew that if i couldnt get that unblocked i shouldnt bother with the rest. I couldnt so i decided to modify the outlet slightly.

I put the outlet water pipe up the other way so the outlet is facing upwards and im going to route a water pipe all the way around the engine and tap into where the heater hoses exits at the top of the thermostat. Do you guys think there will be any problem with this? I noticed that under where the heater hose exits ( once you have taken the brass fitting out of the alloy casting ) there is a sensor.. Does anyone know what that is for?

Cheers and thanks Nate

[Paulballz]

That heat definatly will kill the turbo. I dont think it is as easy as rerouting the pipe as the cooling system flows in a certain circuit. Others may have better information but if i was you id pull engine down forsure and unblock all the water ways,its a time bomb otherwise

[ArvinSlayer]

i got a few TD27 engine manuals, i took my turb off the other weekend to f#$% around with it, u shud have two water lines going in, one from the front of the block and one from the bottom, chances are it should be gushing with coolant when you crack the high pressure bolt. did it have water gushing out? u might have some mad water pipe blocked somewhere i am not an expert, but u definitely need to plumb water at high pressure if u want to steal the water line from elsewhere, so yea, pm me bro for the manuals, mayb tht might help? it seems like a funny problem to crack, i just live in greenlane, m nt a mechanical wizard, bt i am willing to help about n meet a fellow ore member lol!

Peace

Arvin

[natesterrano]

Hey, the pressure line (from the front) is clear, its the return line which is blocked. I see no reason why plumbing a new return line would be bad? Its really not economical for me to pull the engine atm