Running fwd gearbox in buggy for 4wd

[You Get That]

Just wondering how people get on running a motor and fwd gearbox in buggies and suzukis with divorsed transfer case. I have a sj410 thats begging for a bigger engine and was thinking of a sr20 and fwd box.
Just wondering how people do it with engine mounts, space in engine bay, driveshafts, sump clearances ect

Cheers guys!

[mudbugga]

I asked something similar quite a while back, got this info/advise from Pedro .........

-The front wheel drive auto is adapted to the back of a engine, V6 V8 or anything you like, the auto is usually in adaptions, made into a full manual auto, meaning pick a gear and it will stay there regardless of what the throttle is doing,

why?, you get a very short g/box arrangement, the diff turns into a transfer case, the diff is pulled out and welded solid in the g/box,then drive shafts run from where the axles used to be to the diffs, you can get the diff ratios to about 4:1

generally lighter than a g/box transfer case arrangement, definitely one hell of alot shorter, meaning the motor can go back further in the truck to give better balance front to rear.

disadvantage, top speed is really limited mine is good for a guess around 60-70klm per hr, that in overdrive at max revs,

advantage, makes the vehicle go like shit of a shovel, very quick throttle response, loads of low down torque, shorter, stronger?

-I made adaptor plates bolted the the inner CV bolt ring, that then adapts to the hilux drive shaft flange, there is a draw bolt thru the entire assembly to keep the stubs in

[You Get That]

Oh yup very helpful took me a few reads to understand it but it make sence haha
So you dont use a transfer case at all just the motor and gearbox, would this make the truck only good for mud? Because without low box on a transfer cant go slow enough for slow techinal driveing?

Also im gessing the motor would have to be mounted quite far back as to get a decent length driveshaft to the front diff?

[LOLYF]

would this make the truck only good for mud? Because without low box on a transfer cant go slow enough for slow techinal driveing?

No the opposite, the diff in the front wheel drive box becomes your "transfercase" as such.
It means you have around 4to1 low range, but no high range.

Mate of mine runs this set up in a trials truck, SR20DET
and manual 5 speed goes like a cut cat up to about 60k's

[You Get That]

Rito thought i would bump this topic up because i am now seriously looking at doing this, it seems a good way of getting good blance,low ratio and power

Ive got a sj410 with lux axles simexes gear ect and a complete running auto sr20 bluebird that i want to use.

I just want to here peoples experances when mounting the engine like this and any potential problems, engine mounts will be fun, sump clearences ect
The electrical side is still troubleing me but i can pretty pull the harness out of the bluebird for the zuk

Cheers guys

[sig]

quite a few rally guys do this using either commy v6,1uz or ls1 thru windom auto .

[reddog40]

I run a windom v6 auto in my F class 40 series cruiser with a 5litre injected ford. You have to make up a pretty basic relay pack to run the auto, it then works like a manual, the gear you select is the gear you get. There are some 2ltr Nissan autos that are hydraulic and wont need a computer. You will have to weld up the diff in the east/west box. Good luck.

[You Get That]

I run a windom v6 auto in my F class 40 series cruiser with a 5litre injected ford. You have to make up a pretty basic relay pack to run the auto, it then works like a manual, the gear you select is the gear you get. There are some 2ltr Nissan autos that are hydraulic and wont need a computer. You will have to weld up the diff in the east/west box. Good luck.

"Good luck" haha i like that, did you do the motor swap yourself or did you get it as is?

[sig]

he did it all himself ( with large quantities of export gold for inspiration)

[Dirtydog]

The guy that did the work to my truck runs a camry v6 (same engine as mine) in the same fasion, you basiclly get the same setup as a full time 4x4, minus the center diff lock unless you weld it.

his truck can go soo many bloody places its insane, so light and quick.

[callum007]

Says something confusing again
his truck can go soo many bloody places its insane, so light and quick.

Tonys truck isn't unbeatable and he breaks an awful lot of gear.

Sorry, I have nothing useful to add to the topic though aside from not really seeing a need for this when you get all your ratio's and gear selection spot on, and having a responsive 5.7l chev helps too.

[3VILC]

Dragging up and old one again, but did anyone get into setting this up? Thinking about it as a reasonable power fwd engine and box can.be had cheap as chips compared to a good running 413 engine. Understand the principle just wondering if and particular 4banger boxes are easier to get to work than others? Thinking NIssan SR20 or Toyota 4A or 3S would be good engines to use

[Rotazuk]

Chiming in again ....

This is a thread about the sr20 that came up a little while ago
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... =4&t=38408

It points out the differences with the sr20 auto's , if you dont have one to start with you may as well get the one that does not need a bearing retainer . The same issue will apply to and fwd gearbox with a carrier bearing .

I am running a swift gti on a standard swift auto , no bearings required . A useless bit of info about the suzuki driveline is that the swift (being fwd) the 413 and the vitara all use the same size universal joints , this ment no custom parts in my drive line . swift auot output shafts to 413 drive shafts to vitara diff flange , all changing at the uj's (hope that makes sence) .

Are you up for a drive 25th Jan , I would recommend going over to look at the 4wd nationals , unfortunately in wanganui I think but could be worth a trip . There could/should be a couple of A class suzukis , ie on 31's with no susp modifications allowed . And then all the E class trucks all running a fwd engine setup . Would give you a few ideas .

Just being brand specific I would look for a J18 and auto out of a suzuki baleno , the 5dr wagon . I put one , mated to a rwd box thou , in a 413 and it went well . The j18 have the same grunt as a standard sr20de , ie not the turbo sr20det . But at the end of teh day it will be what you can get at a good price

Cheers
Chris

[You Get That]

Im still doing it, its alot of work and im slow but it should all be worth it in the end

[slidenyo]

I like this topic and have been investigating for my own version.
mate has a vtec Honda set manualised in a swb pajero based buggy and I've seen a few 4age versions in 413's.
So first port of call I found out was my ratio sets values then my second boxes set of values and then my transfer cases value and finally my diff ratio.
Confused yet? I'm mounting two mq safari boxes inline behind an ld28t in my 109 chassis landrover.
So I wanted to work out how slow I could crawl in 1st in the front box 1st in the back box and low ratio in the transfer case with 4.7:1 diffs and 850mm tall tires

So to work out your crawl ratio you can multiply the gear ratio by the transfer ratio by the diff ratio (in my case the gear ratio will be multiplied twice for the gear in each box) (4.22 x 4.22 x 2.02 x 4.7 = 169) eg 169:1 169 revolutions of the motor to 1 revolution of the axle shaft.
then by finding the circumference (rolled distance per revolution of the tire)
with (pi x diameter eg 3.14159 x 0.85m tall =2.67m) you can then calculate how much distance will be covered for each revolution of the motor by dividing the distance in metres by the front crawl ratio figure (eg 2.67m/169=0.015m per revolution of the engine)
now say you like to crawl along at 900rpm which (900rpm /60s=15r/s) is 15 revolutions of the engine per second.
by multiplying the engines revolutions per second by the distance travelled per revolution you can find the distance travelled per second (15r/s x 0.015m/r =0.225 m/s) then to find the distance covered in an hour multiply this by 3600 (0.225 m/s x 3600 s =810m/h or 0.810km/h)

I'm pretty sure this would be easy enough to setup in an excel spread sheet to calculate it all out to give you a graph that you can help you predict km/h in a certain gear with everyones different setups.
but otherwise using the above calculation you could pinpoint certain situations that suit you (eg max road speed for a fwd engine/box set up in a zuke by plugging in your redline rpm tallest gear ratio eg od, the centre diff ratio of the box in place of a transfer case and then the diff ratio)

Jase

[Crash bandicoot]

You could still employ a divorced transfer case. this would also drop the point of drive another 4-6 inches allowing for better drive shaft angles/ bigger suspension lift. still be required to weld the FWD diff and plug/seal the front out put of the FWD box though.

[slidenyo]

also a secondary overdrive could be placed in between the fwd box and a divorced case to achieve better ratios for on the road,
otherwise you'd rely on big tires and relatively tall diff ratios to achieve any hope of getting to 100km/h before the engine redlines
ie overdrive in the auto to an overdrive before the case in high to diffs that are in 3.9:1 or taller range with big ass tires.
mind you it all depends what your purpose for the wagon is entirely?
also remember that the torque multiplication of having all that gearing will be hard on the diffs and axles

[zukmeista]

Could be useful...
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html