Offroad-Express

Had a chat to cert guy today re certing the saf, seems to have have a prefance to bump steerage, it does a bit with 75mm lift, but not keen on building drop sections for the panhards.
So first date clashes with a height course i have to do.
may just get another date get it looked at then sort problem, sound reasonable?

Definitely bump steer as opposed to wandering steering from castor not being right?

dont know what your options are now Pete
as long as the panhard rod is out of plane with the steering link rod then it will always result in bump steer,
its just the nature of it

and now that lvvta is now doing a full bump steer check then you will be the first of many that will be having problems at a guess

mudlva wrote:now that lvvta is now doing a full bump steer check then you will be the first of many that will be having problems at a guess

What does the bump steer test consist of? Any idea what is considered a fail?
I've run up to 5" lift in Safari's and not noticed bump steer, but it may just be I'm used to the way they drive, so might have to look a little harder at the suspension setup from now on

DaveM wrote:

mudlva wrote:now that lvvta is now doing a full bump steer check then you will be the first of many that will be having problems at a guess

What does the bump steer test consist of? Any idea what is considered a fail?
I've run up to 5" lift in Safari's and not noticed bump steer, but it may just be I'm used to the way they drive, so might have to look a little harder at the suspension setup from now on

its back to the NZFWDA delimia here...

lvvta chap at last years agm did a demo on how the system is going to be checked.
its quite involved including the removal of springs and testing full articulation whilst measuring the steering differential at the same time then doing calculation to determine if it is within an acceptable tolerance

there is stuff on lvvta site, it will involve some "deep reading"

from what they are saying all new certs will have to go through this test, so panhard rod off plane from the steering link rod will be an issue

mudlva wrote:its back to the NZFWDA delimia here...

lvvta chap at last years agm did a demo on how the system is going to be checked.
its quite involved including the removal of springs and testing full articulation whilst measuring the steering differential at the same time then doing calculation to determine if it is within an acceptable tolerance

there is stuff on lvvta site, it will involve some "deep reading"

from what they are saying all new certs will have to go through this test, so panhard rod off plane from the steering link rod will be an issue

Thanks. Will be well beyond my understanding, so I shall keep an eye on how others get on at cert. time.

Cheers

mudlva wrote:

DaveM wrote:

mudlva wrote:now that lvvta is now doing a full bump steer check then you will be the first of many that will be having problems at a guess

What does the bump steer test consist of? Any idea what is considered a fail?
I've run up to 5" lift in Safari's and not noticed bump steer, but it may just be I'm used to the way they drive, so might have to look a little harder at the suspension setup from now on

its back to the NZFWDA delimia here...

lvvta chap at last years agm did a demo on how the system is going to be checked.
its quite involved including the removal of springs and testing full articulation whilst measuring the steering differential at the same time then doing calculation to determine if it is within an acceptable tolerance

there is stuff on lvvta site, it will involve some "deep reading"

from what they are saying all new certs will have to go through this test, so panhard rod off plane from the steering link rod will be an issue

This will be interesting as most peole run a factory setup and as they remove the springs(?)(haven't read article yet) this should negate the amount (if any) lift you are running. Proberly way over my head to so am keen to hear how others get on.And how they fix the issue(s)

^ they remove the springs so they can put the suspension through its full range of movement safely and easier without spring tension

yessss. could be onto some thing there.....
altho if you have longer shock in then this will allow for more movement downward...
im no engineer so will leave it up to those that are

will ring tomorrow and try for new date so i can see him look it over
Cut 50mm out of front shock top mounts to increase downward travel[ aussie idea],haven't done twin return to centre shocks yet,

agreed on. i drive it and can handle its movements on road , rare to have two hands on the wheel on road driving it anyway

ok can see this but , so many safaris patrols and 80's lifted out there so if they have passed why put mine through a check , as they are built on assy line the models are the same

coxsy wrote:ok can see this but , so many safaris patrols and 80's lifted out there so if they have passed why put mine through a check , as they are built on assy line the models are the same

because last year a badly built vehicle killed its new owner and the steering was part of the problem,
so now there is now a test

it is the good, the bad and the ugly situation here,
lvvta got nailed due to not testing, but at the time there was no test...now there is.....
progress ah...

had to happen. cant have innocent people dying due to a fault in the system
that is why we now have OSH.........

Hi,
Have just read the document which was really all about the testing that was carried out to try and prove that the LVVTA Bump Steer measuring bars gave similar results to that of a wheel alignment machine the IFS was cycled through it full range of movement and measuring the change in toe in / out. Nothing about the relationship of steering wheel to wheel direction change.
No mention of any testing on a Solid axle.

I would think that there would be very little change in toe in/out as a Solid axle goes up and down.
On a vehicle with radius arms like SAF or 80 Series there will be a small change as the axle goes in an arc thus the angle of the King Pins will change a little bit, could do the calcs but no time at the moment, maybe later.
Whereas if you have a 3 or 4 link and the axle goes up and down vertically there will be no change in toe in/out.

Does any one have a link to the actual procedure that is used to do the testing.

Cheers
Tim

it is in lvvta some where that was all i could find in a short search.
i have seen it previously

it was to do with cycling the suspension and monitoring what the steering at hubs the hubs was doing with the steering wheel not moving, and then doing measurements etc

i know no more

Perhaps this is the procedure.

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_05-2010_Bump-steer_Swing-check_Procedure.pdf

Quoting from the Intro "Bump‐steer, or ‘toe‐change on bump’, is the result of a steering geometry change which occurs when a
vehicle’s suspension moves through its normal travel range."

Again this is to do with IFS not solid axle.

The procedure has no mention of checking wheel direction relative to steering wheel, its all about checking Toe in/out change.
Also does a check to see that there is acerman angle built into the steering.

But does not even provide any guideline on what is acceptable or not acceptable.

Perhaps there is another procedure some where.

Perhaps Coxsy you could get your Certifier to give you a copy of the test procedure so you can check it before you go so that it is not a wasted trip.

Cheers
Tim

well
organised 28th of this month for its check, we'll see what he don't like

well what he don't like
fan shroud,
drive shaft loop
head rests for rear cargo barrier
heat shield for fuel lines near turbo
sway bar link
and some how two loose seat mount bolts

coxsy wrote:well what he don't like
fan shroud,

coxsy wrote:well what he don't like
fan shroud,
drive shaft loop
head rests for rear cargo barrier
heat shield for fuel lines near turbo
sway bar link
and some how two loose seat mount bolts

So was it a wof check or a cert? FFS. Fan shroud I could understand if it was interfering with the fan after a body lift, but really, heat shield........? Headrests.......? Loose seat........? Again just reinforces my utter abhorrence of the bullshit of it all with the Lvvta and the entire concept of certing.

dropping rear of the gearbox with spacer plates removed the top of the shroud over time, was, will fix that some time.
built a cargo barrier behind rear seats to keep stuff in the back but within 300 of seat back so needs head rests
rear sway bar bushes are worn and my disconect system wasn't up to scratch

seat bolts well they are spaced up high ex factory and can rack a bit

but passed on lift , brakes, all the steering arms, pan hards, drop boxes.

its a win sort of
two month max to fix those bits

coxsy wrote: disconect system wasn't up to scratch

Well mine hasn' been used since I took out the sway bar 5 years ago. If you want it let me know and I will take it out and send it to you, actually didn't I send you the sway bay also a few years ago???

don't talk about years ago , have trouble with last week

Sliced 250mm pipe x50mm that an 50mm x5 flat bars will make drive shaft loop,a glav 1mm steel will repair fan shroud,
sway bar bolts and seats done,
still to do turbo shroud

Nice hoop Coxy .

No need for one on the front drive shaft right for certing?

Your exhuast note must sound nice, with that "muffler" you got there.

Keep up the good work

yep turbo quietens it down nicely

any ideas on how to add head rests to my rear cargo barrier

coxsy wrote:any ideas on how to add head rests to my rear cargo barrier

Couple of bits of ply, foam and cover them. fasten to barrier with small pipe saddle style things

Great topic as about to go down this track with my SWB Safari.

What is the reason for needing drive shaft hoop for cert? Surly the spring lift would not make that much difference to drive shaft length.