Offroad-Express

Right going to get a build log going of the things I'm doing to the front of my WD21. Really don't want to go off on an IFS vs SA debate, I've had solid axles and love them and agree with most of what people say about them.

The purpose of this is to toughen up a a good existing platform - after all the Datsun 620, on which the D21 IFS was developed, was the first 4x4-specific IFS system. Its designed to take a beating, do jumps and high speed desert stuff but is very sensitive to lifting.

All the work is done myself, I bought all the parts in the US and brought them back with me. So I'm also trying to show that this can be done on a budget. Much much less than a solid axle swap. But in saying that its still IFS, and I'm not gonna try and make it something its not. Looking for durability.

The goal here is to reliably run 33x10.5s MTs, and almost 3" of suspension lift. Strength wise, the benchmark is Pajero Gen 2. I dont have tonnes of weight and not planning on making tonnes of horsepower.

So I'm hitting it in three areas; suspension, steering, final drive. Today I'll talk about suspension, CVs and hubs. A lot of research was done so I'll try to be accurate with recalling dates etc.

First thing I wanted to do was upgrade to 28 spline CVs. These were used in all V6 Pathfinders and 1993 onwards TD27Ts. Easiest way to identify these is the 5-bolt pattern on the axle/cv flange.


If you have an R180 diff, your flanges will be a 6 bolt pattern and you will need to find some stub axles that are the correct stud pattern. Below are the R180 type axles.


The V6 CVs outer shafts are fatter than the old ones, so to make this work, you have to use V6 steering knuckles. The knuckle (on the left) is physically larger, and has the benefit of bigger brake discs/calipers. Note tie rod taper changed in 1992 (slightly larger).


CVs/knuckles were from a parts truck I sold the engine from to pay for. I got Moog/555 heavy duty greasable balljoints for around $30US each at cost.



I have 4-door torsion bars installed, which give quite a stiff spring rate which complements my super soft rear Jeep coils. Here you can see new tension rod/sway bar bushings - $10US a side. The bumpstops bolt onto the frame, meaning they wont be spat out, keeping CV angles safe ($10US)


Lower Control Arm Bushings - one of the most annoying jobs I've ever done to any vehicle, period. But it all helps in keeping things nice and tight and keeping play to a minimum.


The key to lifting the front of these things reliably is the upper control arms. These are designed to restore alignment/balljoint/bumpstop geometry to factory settings after the torsions have been cranked. These are Rough Country brand (discontinued Superlift stock) and were $200 after a discount through Automotive Customizers in Florida. Note how at almost 3" of torsion crank, the upper balljoint is nice and flat.



Warn breakable hubs - got these off the parts truck, major score. They have breakable rings inside designed to act as a fuse and let go before the hub or CV does. They make an audible crunching noise at a predefined torque rating, depending on ring size/weight. Rings take 5 minutes on the trail to replace (hub 20-30mins?) Quite a feature to let you know when you're giving it too much hammer. Note Warn hubs have a reputation for destroying factory studs and then grenading, easy fix is extra long HT studs.



Heres one of the corners all back together and bled. I have a couple of OME front shocks to install (parts truck), if I didnt have them sitting here, I wouldn't bother. Extended shocks not necessary.


Next area to address is the infamous Terrano steering... this involves the '2wd mod,' which consists of a whole new steering system, visually it looks exactly like a Toyota or Mitsi IFS steering setup.

Nice write up, I will be following this. My truck already has everything you have done on this post except for the UCA's. Maybe I really should look at some?
Is there any issues here with WOF or did you get them certed first?

looking nice, ad i like the warn hubs, thats gunna save some time and problems.

apart from the bushes, how much do you reackon this would cost all up?

trying to see what sort of difference there is between sas and beefing up the front end, as both have there advantages, ifs being nice driving and more clearance.

Good luck with the project though, ill be keeping an eye on it and jotting down notes (for if i own a another terrano)

Also do the steering box mod that works a treat as well. Nice write up.

I have done the 2wd drive steering mod. To use the words of boart " very good "

Haha cheers, yes good call on the idler mod, 'i like, very much'

Cost:

Bushings, balljoints $160USD

CVs/knuckles - scored from my parts truck, wreckers would want silly money. Pickapart would be the go.

UCAs - retail at US$300, hard to find nowadays but I have some hookups. Stay away from the AC brand ones, they are cheaper but don't help with balljoint angles.

Hubs - you can find 28 spline manual hubs on trademe for 150ish, pretty sure D22 kit will fit, apparently OEM ones are the sturdiest. I'm not convinced yet on the Warn 'breakable' hubs, cool in theory but it may be all smoke and mirrors. ie is it even possible to calculate the failure point of the CVs in every possible scenario? What, so Warn has a million different rings of varying strengths/weights for each of the vehicles they make hubs for? What about engine/tyre size differences?? etc

I got the hardware at good prices through some buddys at Rockauto, Rough Country and 4x4parts, considering a bulk order (including UCAs) so more people here in NZ can enjoy this stuff without it costing a million percent in various taxes.

Pete I would imagine the UCAs may need cert, my common sense WOF guy isnt fussed so long as its safe. I got a certifier to check them out before install, he said no probs so long as I show receipt/letter from Superlift, and so long as they are stamped by the manufacturer. Cert will be inevitable for me as I have a 40mm bodylift planned. The other good thing about the UCAs is they have grease zerks for the bushes.

May just change this to a full build thread... pretty much done on the interior too, got the R32 wheel for $30, Navara stick handbrake (lots of c**ting around getting that to work), centre lap belt, din tray and CB tray. Wired the old air con momentary switch into the rear work light switch, so I can flash it for recovery/tailgaters etc. Put in more interior lights, built up the toolbox and bolted it into place, added a grab handle to the inside of the hatch, 3rd brake light

quick question are you running the v6 c.vs or the post 92 td27 ?

poss682 wrote:quick question are you running the v6 c.vs or the post 92 td27 ?

I'm running V6 CVs, as far as I can work out they're exactly the same as post 92 turbo ones

does that mean finding a post 92 turbo diff an putting it in may be the way to go?

Dirtydog wrote:does that mean finding a post 92 turbo diff an putting it in may be the way to go?

Easiest is to find some stub axles from a post 92 turbo R180 diff. Same spline count, just different bolt pattern. I'll have some of these available in a month or so from another parts truck. V6 stub axles won't work due to larger spline count. You might be able to fit the V6 flange to the pre-92 axles, not sure.

I'm going the V6 diff route which I'll get into here in upcoming posts.

Been reading a lot that in drift circles the R180 is known to fail due to shock loading, R&P not quite up to the job, I'm sure sibainmud can attest to that.

lax2wlg wrote:

Dirtydog wrote:does that mean finding a post 92 turbo diff an putting it in may be the way to go?

Been reading a lot that in drift circles the R180 is known to fail due to shock loading, R&P not quite up to the job, I'm sure sibainmud can attest to that.

i think that is a very good example lol.

i wonder what the strength difference is between the r180 and the r200.

They're both a hypoid design and from what I read the R180 centre is plenty strong, its the R&P that seem to blow up on them.

R200 is tough, most say on par w/ the legendary Toyota 7.5" minitruck diff. Same diff as used in MK Patrol front, I've talked (online) to fellas running 35s,locker and a boosted SD33 weighing in near 3000kg and not having problems with it.

so what are stronger v6 or post 92 cv

I know the h233? rear is larger than the highly regarded ford 9 inch and am pretty sure the 233 in the code is mm.... (its a big fkn unit) logic wld follow the diff between the r180 and 200 is 20mm diameter in the gear or 3/4 of an inch (19. something / 05) The c200 is semi interchangable with it.

The r200 has a locker available for it but they wont make one for the 180 as apparently mechanically its too weak. Hope this is helpful

the h233 is said to be a 9.25" diff. not too much, but apparently it makes all the difference.

too bad the 300zx has the wrong ratios or we would have the potential to run the R230 diff in the front. i believe they only come in 3.9 or 4.1 built to withstand 300 horsepower from stock though.

ive read up quite abit about the c200 diffs, something about the swivel housings fitting on the later safari housings to get the steering in the front. was an interesting read.

dont ya love nissan interchangeability?

what is the spline count of the r180/r200's? ill see if i can find out more about the 300z rear diff and see how feasibly it is to put one under the front.

4.1 safari rear crown and pinion fit into a terrano housing and on the carrier just incase anyone wants to know.

Looking good dude, the 2wd mod is easy to do along with the steering box/idler, should have mine done this weekend. I might look at the UCA mod after ive done the back end.

So my 1996 model has the 6 bolt flange 3x2 style. Does this mean I have the weak cv joints

According to me, you do. 3x2 are tripod type and only have three points of contact. 5 bolt are ball and cage type. Can fit 5 bolt to it but you will have to change diff drive flanges, free-wheeling hubs and the whole hub assembly due to the extra spline count on the outter and slightly larger diameter cv shaft. Have been there and done this

Cheers,

sibainmud wrote:According to me, you do. 3x2 are tripod type and only have three points of contact. 5 bolt are ball and cage type. Can fit 5 bolt to it but you will have to change diff drive flanges, free-wheeling hubs and the whole hub assembly due to the extra spline count on the outter and slightly larger diameter cv shaft. Have been there and done this

Cheers,

Sounds like way to much hassle for me to want to do that.
So I will call pass on it. Just hope the smaller ones will take the load

wax wrote:

sibainmud wrote:According to me, you do. 3x2 are tripod type and only have three points of contact. 5 bolt are ball and cage type. Can fit 5 bolt to it but you will have to change diff drive flanges, free-wheeling hubs and the whole hub assembly due to the extra spline count on the outter and slightly larger diameter cv shaft. Have been there and done this

Cheers,

Sounds like way to much hassle for me to want to do that.
So I will call pass on it. Just hope the smaller ones will take the load

Yep true true, the inners are better. But what if you made hybrid CVs by taking the V6 inner and banging it into the diesel outer. Then continue to run 27 spline knuckles, hubs etc. Think I read someone did this and they married up fine.

The next stage in beefing up the front is the steering system. All the technical info for this mod can be found here:
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... 25&t=31703

The standard WD21 steering system falls to pieces after anything much more than an inch of torsion crank, the whole things acts as a lever on itself, putting massive stress on tie rods and the cross rod itself. The solution is to tear it all out and put in a new system consisting of various Nissan OEM parts.

Its a much cleaner push/pull setup that keeps the tierod angles safe, engineering wise its almost identical to the Mitsi and Toyota IFS steering.

Other than a couple of zerks, I put the system in.




Moog HD tie rods are much heavier and thicker than generics. Parts for this setup - 2 inners, 2 outers, 2 adjusters, centrelink - 250US. DEATH_INC retapped the adjusters to accept the larger inner tie rods, great job & many thanks.

The idler is another weak point in the factory steering. For now I am using a brace, but will later replace it with a gutted out steering box (wax recc.). Cost - $30 or so from Pickapart. This effectively makes the idler shaft as strong as the main steering shaft, so by combining the 2 mods, steering troubles should be at a minimum.

So I got the steering installed, eyelignment and rushed to my 9am WOF appointment. All clear, however he mentioned that technically the drivers seat should be adjustable.

Took it for a shakedown, going to get some high speed footage of the setup in the weekend.

lax2wlg wrote: But what if you made hybrid CVs by taking the V6 inner and banging it into the diesel outer. Then continue to run 27 spline knuckles, hubs etc. Think I read someone did this and they married up fine.

Hmmm, the ones I had here wouldn't marry up. but I only tried the outer spline and CV
Suppose I should try the inners.

Cheers,

Cheers to punkoutnz for the factory trispoke alloys. Most people hate these, I like em because they are strong but very light at 7" wide, and perfect backspacing to run 33x10.5 tyres without guard cutting or flares (when I finally find some BFGs that aren't $450+ a piece)


Etched/painted the TJM bumper and bolted the frames to the chassis. The bar is winch compatible but requires a seperate frame for that.


And heres the result - Looks good but bigtime reduction in approach angle, and a big empty cavity with no winch!


And of course misalignment due to body lift. I want to bring it up and back, which would probably mean chopping the guard. The TJM mounts hang low, so I'm trying to figure out a way of going straight through the slots on the body and bolting to factory bumper mounts. Any ideas please fire away.

you could modify the existing mounts, shouldnt be too hard, although i would still go under the chassis for the strength aswell anyway.

or you could allways get creative on the panelwork where the mounts go through to allow some thick brackets to be bolted to chassis.

Interesting. I can't view your photos in more detail because I get...

Access has been blocked as the threat Mal/HTMLGen-A has been found on this website

Do you have another location for those photos?

Will get some more photos of the brackets tomorrow. Many thanks fullthrottle for guidance with the body lift (and shop access)

Pretty happy with how the suspension is set up, good compliance, good spring rate, decent travel (in the context of IFS).

Open front/LSD rear


However, at the current ride height, it needs more downtravel. I'm going to turn the torsions down by 1/2", and add these:



Diff drop bushings lower the front diff by 1/2", and ultra low profile bumpstops allow for another 1/2" or so of downtravel. Net result = over an inch of added travel. Whoooa! (sarcastic). Another benefit is the inner CV angles will come down a good amount.

These will be added during the R200 front diff swap, at the moment I'm still waiting for the 4.8 gears so will update as things progress. Will be asking for/taking advice from slide as he has just done the swap, and sibainmud as he is the doyen of WD21 front diff removals/installs.

Pm me with the details of the 4.8 R&P for a R200. May have a use for that in the near future
Any help i can give...no worries.

Cheers,
P.S F'n cool so far

I've kept 4.6 gears in my r200. Any questions just fire away, I'll help out where I can
Nath

I have been taking advantage of global warming, ie still working outside in the gutter. No garage at my current place, moving out in a month or so which should be nice for winter. Not to worry though.

The front diff project is moving along...parts gathering/cleaning/resealing


R200A case and axles are from a 1995 V6 Pathfinder

R200A case is visibly a lot bigger than the R180. This unit was also used in the MK Patrol.


The problem has been finding some 4.8 gears that will fit the R200A front diff. My truck started life as a n/a TD27 with the CA48 arse. Some may consider 4.8s with 33s an overkill but I just love crawling and see-sawing the front over things.

After lots of researching, looking at ridiculous prices for aftermarket gears etc, I realized that the R200A is the same unit as the C200 rear (CA48). Confirmed that the gears from the CA48 rear would fit in the front, and pulled the stern-leg out.


I just pulled the axles, undid all the links and dumped it on the floor, didn't need spring compressors.


Bonus is I can sell the LSD thats in there and keep the gears.

So that means I am a step closer to getting the front diff set up. Gears, check, centre, check, axles, check. Just waiting on the drop bushings and need to get the case drilled/tapped. And more burning out old bushings.


In the event of SAS, the ARB will go straight into an MK Patrol front axle.

So what about the back? Parts truck was handy here. I thought f** it, may as well put in the big balls H233 Patrol diff.


The case is from a 93 Terrano, centre from a Y60 Safari (cheers Nismo26) with Aussie locker. 4.8 gears & 31-spline axles from Terrano with disc brakes, sweet.

I managed to 'slip it in' on my own by stripping it down to the case so it was nice and light, and then jiggling the links into place.

And although nobody steals Terranos because they're not cool enough (except passengerpetes), this is one is tracked and alerts both the Police and the CIA when it is tinkered with

good plan with the c200 from an MK safari, be far more straight foward than the wider GQ diff, although would be missing out on coils all round.

been reading up on a few things like the c200 front diff's swivel housings fitting onto a later GQ diff, if your interested i could pull the info up for you.

guessing the back diff is a GQ front center? is it easier to use a safari center than a terrano one?