Offroad-Express

Had another bang about 10 months ago in my right front CV. It always happens when I am throwing rocks with my Icebreaker chains when cutting a track through deep snow. This time it was not the dowels in the FWH / wheel hub interface shearing off, like I have had twice before. The CV lasted until a month ago and finally banged and locked up as I negotiated a steep LH hairpin whilst heading downhill.

Decided to get one of Suzolla's custom Longfield Supersets albeit one side at a time. Thanks Tim.

Adding 4 more dowels to each hub.

Attempting to change to Trail Gear swivel hub wiper seals and rock rings.

Can anyone tell me the diameter of the swivel balls on a Hilux axle? The Prado ones are 132mm. I am concerned the TG wiper seals may not work due to a possible different ball dia.
The seals are about a 146 OD as opposed to the Prado size of 150mm.
I have a plan to get around this and to mod the rock rings as they (Hilux) have a smaller PCD bolt pattern.

Has anyone created a greaseway for the top kingpin bearing?
Thinking if I do this I may get a better life out of these bearings and stop water getting in to them.
Do the shims for these go between the inner race /steering arms, or outer race / swivel hub?

Will put up photos as I go.

Cheers John

I can't help you on the seals but the shims go between the entire bearing and the arm. The outer race is knocked into the ball and the inter sits into it. The steering arm then has a shaft of sorts that with a bit of persuation with a hammer slots into the inner race. So the shims go between the knuckle and the arm and adjust the pre load on the bearing that way.

Cheers
Sam

Wiper seals won't work as the Prado balls are bigger the hilux and nether will 80series seals as they are bigger again.
Rob

jammysammy wrote:I can't help you on the seals but the shims go between the entire bearing and the arm. The outer race is knocked into the ball and the inter sits into it. The steering arm then has a shaft of sorts that with a bit of persuation with a hammer slots into the inner race. So the shims go between the knuckle and the arm and adjust the pre load on the bearing that way.

Cheers
Sam

Ok so the shims go under the bolted joint between the knuckle and the arm. That means taking shims out increases preload. Correct?
The young guy who rebuilt my axle under an insurance claim 18 months ago did not put any shims in. I think he reduced preload by leaving the bolted joints loose! I discovered this some months after the insurance rebuild.
Bearings badly Brinelled from being way too loose and the top one had a deformed cage and was seized and rusty.

yeap that is correct. I am running the thinnest shims in one of my knuckles to get the right amount. I have been told as long as the shims are the same top to bottom it is fine. He may have tighten them up but like i have found out about a week ago they loosen themselves over time. I will be applying large volumes of locktight to mine. I will also look at putting dowels in as well. I have heard of people not having shims in.

Sam

The shims are important to get the preload on the bearings, you need to use the correct amount on both the top and the bottom, to center the hub, otherwise the axle will be rubbing hard on the axle bush...
Personally I use more preload (less shims) than factory, but I'm also using big tires
Here is a link to a thread I did on Pirat4x4 ages ago, it shows how to do all this without the special Toyota Service tool, just using some bits quickly turned up. You may or may not want to do this, but the theory as to why is still the same.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/734345-setting-up-knuckles-without-sst.html

As for breaking dowels between FWH and hub, they have to be installed properly in a mill or suchlike, any other hokey drilled method will result in pain...
I replaced the hardened dowels with high tensile, non hard ones too, hardened dowels are too brittle

rob-mu wrote:Wiper seals won't work as the Prado balls are bigger the hilux and nether will 80series seals as they are bigger again.
Rob

Thanks Rob.
I understand they are bigger and am wondering how much.
Does anyone know, or can go and measure one with a vernier for me please?

Am thinking if the size difference is not too much, I may be able to stretch the TG seals over the ball by heating them in hot water. My thoughts are that as the seal works on the side of the ball, it may flex enough to work. Once I know the dimensions I can draw it up in SolidWorks and make sure.

The outer location of the seal and the bolt hole positions of the mounting plate / Rock Rings , I can change to suit, relatively easily.

Alternatively are there TG seals or equiv available for the Prado swivel hubs? They may be the same size as an HZJ75?

The rebuild kit I have bought (for an HZJ75) has the correct sized Toyota style seals etc. It even comes with the correct inner axle seals for the Longs; 50 x 33. My slightly later '94 Prado ones run the axles with the 50 x 35 seals. South Island Bearing Supplies has these. WAY Cheaper than $118 per bearing from Toyota!

Hey Jafa
Thanks for your reply. Some salient advice here!
Comments through your text in Italics

Jafa wrote:The shims are important to get the preload on the bearings, you need to use the correct amount on both the top and the bottom, to center the hub, otherwise the axle will be rubbing hard on the axle bush...
I had figured this and was wondering how to sort it. Will make up your tool. Cheers!
Personally I use more preload (less shims) than factory, but I'm also using big tires
Was thinking the same, though my tyres do not resemble yours but my truck does occasionally get large shock loads with its small suspension travel.
Here is a link to a thread I did on Pirat4x4 ages ago, it shows how to do all this without the special Toyota Service tool, just using some bits quickly turned up. You may or may not want to do this, but the theory as to why is still the same.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/734345-setting-up-knuckles-without-sst.html
Brilliant! Just the tech I need

As for breaking dowels between FWH and hub, they have to be installed properly in a mill or suchlike, any other hokey drilled method will result in pain...
Completely agree... I have worked out how to make a jig that bolts to the face of the hub & FWH to keep it true with the bed of the mill and will be doing this and reaming the holes. Will put up photos once done, and keep the jig if others want this mod done.

I replaced the hardened dowels with high tensile, non hard ones too, hardened dowels are too brittle

How many dowels did you use and what material were they?
Have bought imperial sized dowels ex US but can't find my 15/16 machine reamer. I have a good 8mm one so have bought those... But they are hardened... Hmmm

I stretched some Hilux seals over the balls on my Prado, obviously not ideal but seem to be holding up fine. Interested in your upgrade as I may have to do similar in the future.cheers

juz wrote:I stretched some Hilux seals over the balls on my Prado, obviously not ideal but seem to be holding up fine. Interested in your upgrade as I may have to do similar in the future.cheers

Hi Juz
When you say Hilux seals, do you mean the Toyota style ones, or the proper wiper seal Trail Safe ones as Trail Gear make?



Hilux ball diameter measurement anyone?

Oh just standard ones sorry not trailgear ones. Cant see why you couldnt with them too though.

According to Toyodiy.com
The factory P/N for the wiper seal kit is 43204-60041
And its fitted to lots of Landcruisers but not Hilux / surf.
Take a look at the list
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/xref?v=J_1 ... 4320460041

I used a Terrain Tamer over haul kit for mine many years ago and got the one for the older 70 series...PZJ70 (from memory)
The only seals which weren't there or wrong size was for the electric hub and the inner axle seal ...

Ive got a complete set of Trail Gear seals & rock rings here if ya want to measure them up ....just msg me.
Was going to put them on my prado front end but by the sounds of it i brought the wrong ones.
Are part number 140327-1-K

Here's some pics I took a while back to show the difference...

Hilux wiper (left), prado wiper (right)


Hilux wiper ontop of the prado steel ring


Prado wiper ontop of hilux wiper


I emailed trail gear to see if they thought it might stretch to suit the Prado ball back when I took these pics, but they weren't willing to entertain the idea at all. I think if it did fit, it would sit further down the ball, so you would want to check what it does at full lock.

I managed to measure up a Ln106 Hilux today at Lineside. The most logical choice as it is only 200m from work! Except I was not there today due to the funeral of my best mate's Grandpa. He died at 100 yrs and 9 days! An absolute Legend of a man.

The Hilux ball is 124mm dia, compared to the Prado at 132mm.
Got some other dimensions too, so will draw it up shortly and see what things look like.

Calvin,
Thanks yes I got a kit and that's pretty much what is missing. Ordered new CV brass bushes today and the seals beyond them. Mic'ed the bushes up today and they had 0.002" clearance in one direction and 0.020" (0.5mm) at 90 degrees.

Trevor,
Thanks, I've got a set spread around the Prado too! Will check out the p.n. and see if it is the same. As I understand it, it was designed for the Lux. Certainly the Rock Ring dia and bolt pattern match. They don't for the Prado though...

Jeremy,
cheers for the photos. shows the same as I have. Yes I will look at where the seal will be; and if it needs to be further away from the King Pin bearings, whether it will compromise the lock. I bought a '71 cos of the lock I need so I won't be going down that route!

Now to the joys of modelling and drawing in SolidWorks. Been a few years...

My head has it that I have not achieved much this week on the axle rebuild but in truth I have.

I discovered the warped spindle to hub dust seals were installed during the insurance job on the knuckle side of the brake disc cover. They were facing inwards, instead of outwards and on the spindle side of the disc cover!
Both the disc cover and the dust seals badly warped due to forcing the seal area over a spigot that was too large for it!
These do not show easily on ToyoDIY as they are between 2 different areas of parts. took a bit of detective work.
Panel-beating of disc covers required...

Got three seals from Toyota and the spindle brass bushes are on there way from Tim.
Got a whole pile of shims from Lineside. Will be interesting to see what is required compared to the lack of any before.

Measured the pivot points of the CV on both the Prado axle (long side) and the Longfield one (s s). This was a bit tricky and I am going to re-do this using a laser pointer set-up tomo eve. Thanks Gardengnome.

Trevor the TG kit is the number that you have.

Modelled and drew up both the Hilux ball / knuckle and TG seal to find the seal position and then transferred that onto the Prado ball & knuckle.





It looks like it may work. I am in the process of changing the model to apply full lock and check clearances then. Measurements on the real thing seem to show that it will. Some issues with the model so that is for tomorrow night after the laser measurement of the axle CV pivots.

I would love to know how to upload images so that they show full size. Any clues out there? These were 640 x 441

Are you renewing the Spindle seals ? #90310-33001,These are in the spindles that had electric hubs , need to fit them before the bush's go back.

Yep OldBlue, figured I'd do.the whole job once. Have new spindle seals from Toyota. They are quite thin. Will have to machine the new bronze bushes to suit these. Wasn't going to pay Toyota prices for those!

OMG, it has only been 8 months since I was working on my Prado!

My LHS Longfield axle, Birfield and the two FWH drive gears arrived today from Tim. Thanks Suzolla! My Chrissy pressie to myself!

Now to find that most elusive device; The Round Tuit!
A small TIG welding job here at home then off to the Goon to get back into my truck. Been off the road TOO LONG!

Have some spare electric hubs out in my workshop here at home, so will go compare those drive gears with those from the Longfields FWH ones. Fingers crossed they will be interchangable...

Enough procrastination!
Am off to it!

Way to go ...ill be doing the same to mine soon ...will be interesting to see how you get on.

Hey, just been reading through your post.
Using the same running gear in my vehicle and got sick of destroying any and all variations of locking hubs. Now if you are like me, and the locking hubs are never unlocked anyway, why not use a drive flange.
I used ones of a 98 Prado IFS vehicle I think? with a 30spline cv. (can get exact deatils if you want).
They fitted straight on, bought the center bolt/washer for the end of the cv to prevent inward movement and the dust cap from Toyota along with new dowels. Haven't had a broken dowel since and it is only running the two factory items. They appear to have reduced the backlash allowed by the locking hubs and therefore reduced shock loading on the dowels and bolts???
The only other point is that some people use the locking hubs as a shear pin to prevent damage to an item that is difficult/slow to repair on a track! Easier to throw a new hub on.
Let me know if you want details and/or pics. 021899587. Dean.