Tire wear

[kiwinoz]

Hi guys,
I see lots about steering issues etc, just wondering about front end tire wear. I rotate and align my tires often, but the front ones always seem to wear badly. Toe in/out is ok, but the leading edge of each grove is worn. And not uniformly around the circumference.
Is getting expensive
Do any of you guys have this? or maybe my whole front end is bent...

[The WEHI]

sounds like worn shocks?

[churchill]

Probably truth in that^^ Any pics?

[kiwinoz]

I have newish Rancho5000 shocks, 3 yrs. But, I have been 100,000 ks on some siht roads.
So, this isn't a common trait? That's a start.

[lax2wlg]

Possibilities:
-Idler arm bushings shot. Diagnose idler bushing by jacking up pass. wheel, wiggle and look for play around idler shaft. Solution - replace with another steering box so you never have to worry about this again.

-Upper control arm bushings shot causing unpredictable/erratic camber changes
-Tension rod (radius arm) bushings shot causing unpredictable/erratic toe behaviour

Diagnose by posting some pics.

[kiwinoz]

pics tomorrow, but is re-assuring that this isn't usual.

ps I have 2 of these, a '90 pathfinder, petrol. the one causing me tire trouble, no rust, been reliable for over 180,000 k and a '90 Terrano, which was to be the replacement, but I've found rust under the passenger seat. Damn, and just spent $1500 on the injector pump... could buy a whole new damn engine for that !

[skid]

just a question about the alignment

you say its all good, but is that based on the fact you've had it done or the fact that whoever did it has said its spot on

theres a lot of shops that just set the alignment to the computer specs without thinking outside the square a little bit and adjusting it differently

just throwing it out there

[Jay]

Tyre 'scalloping'.... I've been through the same thing recently. Google will show you hundreds of results about the causes etc.
Any unusual wobble's or steering wheel shakes at any speed? As The Wehi said, I'd start with shocks and go from there....

Also like skid said - alignment (from someone who can think outside the box), bushes, bearings etc etc...

Jay

[Crash bandicoot]

Top inner A arm bushes

[lax2wlg]

theres a lot of shops that just set the alignment to the computer specs without thinking outside the square a little bit and adjusting it differently

x2 I've noticed w/ a couple of slack alignment places, often they f** up torsion bar suspension alignment and then try to blame the customer.
ie they remove the front wheels by jacking up the control arm or frame which throws the static ride height way off. Then they align it, you drive it around for a couple of days, the torsion bars settle to their proper height, and now the castor/camber settings are way off. Then you go back and they say 'f**n Terranos are impossible to align. You have to add washers blah blah and then the bolt is too short etc. Bloody IFS. I'll need it for at least half a day.' So you say 'Nice try, but bullshit, I have aftermarket control arms which allow you to dial in camber/caster quickly and easily with minimal shim, to factory specs' Then you take your $$ back and thank him for wasting your time and thinking you are a sucker. And try to find a decent alignment place.

[mud_slinger]

shocks normally die around the 60km mark. my money is on the shocks worn.

[kiwinoz]

Yeah, some wheel alignment places have said " that's coopers...."
Others just want to do as many on a Saturday morning as possible.
It was getting to be a regular thing to do.
I rotated my previous set of tires, and they all wore out
So, now I have not moved them. 3 corners are wearing evenly, and very little, the front right is causing the trouble. Lucky I have a good spare spare for when I've fixed things.

So, now I have new bushes to install, upper A and lower and compression, both sides. I was hoping to get this done on a Saturday, but after reading up on it, seems the old bushes are a siht to remove.....
I've read it's common to burn them out ? Drill them out, then burn? Is this true?
I don't have access to a torch, and I don't want to be left sunday night, car all in bits and no way to get to work....

Also, what grease?
Is different grease required for nolathane vs rubber?
My new ones look rubber. ( Black from MOOG)

Any advice?
Thanks

[kiwinoz]

Hmmmm.... must be a bit challenging....400+ views...

Guess i'll do what I usually do, charge in and see what happens.

Preparation. lube. various sized sockets. BFH. drill. biggerFH.

and a 6 pack lol

[ChurchurDan]

Tyre pressure and ride height are big contributors as well as camber and toe.
You need a decent alignment shop with a competent and experienced person doing it. If they try to say all terranos do it go somewhere else, Mine does not wear front tyres out, my last set did 7 years of daily use

[kiwinoz]

Now that I have stopped rotating my tires around, I know where and what the problem is.
Have new shocks all round, recently. even swapped left right front ones.

Have new upper A, lower and compression rod bushed to install.
pics etc when I get to do it.

But for Easter, going to Wyndham, some of Gibb river road, Halls creek, Wave hill, up thru Gregory Nat Park, to Timber creek then home. Katherine. Camping dry season started.

Have a great weekend

[DEATH_INC]

The stock Terrano camber setup is wrong, it makes all the left fronts wear out the outer shoulder. Around here anyway. Post up your alignment measurements if you have them...
Rancho 5000's will last 200+k, and still work ok....well....at least mine did.
There's many things that cause 'scolloping' the answer you get will normally depend on who you talk too.
If your bushes are rubber, then don't put any grease near them, they are supposed to 'pressure bond' and rely on the rubber twisting.
If they're eurethane, then grease the inner pivot/sleeve and ends only. Never grease the outer where it fits in the arm.

The worst steering parts for wear/wrecking your alignment are;
Crossrod-it shouldn't pivot/rock at all, tho a little is ok
Idler-which also gets bent fairly easy if it isn't braced
Upper inners-you can see it if you look at them loaded, it's fairly obvious
Rear radius-tho these can get pretty bad before they affect it too much.

[lax2wlg]

The stock Terrano camber setup is wrong, it makes all the left fronts wear out the outer shoulder.

So you ARE still around this place!

If they're eurethane, then grease the inner pivot/sleeve and ends only. Never grease the outer where it fits in the arm.

Please expand on this

[ChurchurDan]

Because you want the bush to rotate on the sleeve not the arm to rotate on the bush, you want the bush to move with the arm.

[lax2wlg]

Calmini/Superlift put zerk fittings on their arms.. As far as they're concerned this is to stop creaks/squeaks (works well for that) and 'significantly prolong the life of poly bushings' if lithium grease is used regularly.

Is this BS/ an oversight?

[kiwinoz]

Well, upper A arms bushes replaced, lower control arms seemed ok, and stuck solid anyway. TREs replaced, upper/lower ball joints both sides, not exactly sure upper A bushes are sitting right.
So off for a wheel alignment at the local. (not pub)
Explained the history and what I'd done, they said I should be rotating my tires........ I said sure. I don't think he had listened.
Anyways, attached is the print out..... and I still did not get my tires rotated, as I do not trust it is done correctly. And looks like only adjusted toe.
I have 3 near new tires and one fk"d. And a good spare from last time.
I think I'm going to have to take a couple of days off work, drive 300 Ks and stay over night to get it done properly....
Hope death_inc is about....

(when u think about it, it's a silly term rotate tires)

[jeffw]

Well, upper A arms bushes replaced, lower control arms seemed ok, and stuck solid anyway. TREs replaced, upper/lower ball joints both sides, not exactly sure upper A bushes are sitting right.
So off for a wheel alignment at the local. (not pub)
Explained the history and what I'd done, they said I should be rotating my tires........ I said sure. I don't think he had listened.
Anyways, attached is the print out..... and I still did not get my tires rotated, as I do not trust it is done correctly. And looks like only adjusted toe.
I have 3 near new tires and one fk"d. And a good spare from last time.
I think I'm going to have to take a couple of days off work, drive 300 Ks and stay over night to get it done properly....
Hope death_inc is about....

(when u think about it, it's a silly term rotate tires)

A lot of places won't do the camber on a 4wd if it has shims due to the extra time involved, if you want it done properly take it somewhere that does 4wds all the time

[Crash bandicoot]

Well, upper A arms bushes replaced, lower control arms seemed ok, and stuck solid anyway. TREs replaced, upper/lower ball joints both sides, not exactly sure upper A bushes are sitting right.
So off for a wheel alignment at the local. (not pub)
Explained the history and what I'd done, they said I should be rotating my tires........ I said sure. I don't think he had listened.
Anyways, attached is the print out..... and I still did not get my tires rotated, as I do not trust it is done correctly. And looks like only adjusted toe.
I have 3 near new tires and one fk"d. And a good spare from last time.
I think I'm going to have to take a couple of days off work, drive 300 Ks and stay over night to get it done properly....
Hope death_inc is about....

(when u think about it, it's a silly term rotate tires)

A lot of places won't do the camber on a 4wd if it has shims due to the extra time involved, if you want it done properly take it somewhere that does 4wds all the time

and then it isn't hard to do which annoys me some what, as all ya have to do is look at the measurement, compare it to what it should be loosen off the pivot bolts add or remove shims then do the bolts back up.

[lax2wlg]

When you finally work out the correct number of shims for your setup, replace them with hardened washers. Shims can jump out if it takes a heavy hit off road.

Then it will chew out the threaded hole in the frame for the spindle to attach to... nightmare.