VN V6 into VZN130

[Harrison]

Hey guys, done a fair amount of searching and googling and have a few questions about this upgrade before i rip my surf apart.

I have a 1993 VZN130 as my daily runner and just got a wrecked 1989 VN with 255000 kms and 3.8 V6 with auto in it.

I have 3 main questions Im hoping youse lot can answer for me,
1) Is the VN motor going to be any more economical than my current toymotor v6? (opinions seem divided)
2) I hear and read about diff ratios. Im guessing if I change the rear diff I will have to change the front diff also to keep things turning evenly in 4WD? If thats no problem will the standard commy diff in the donor car bolt into the surf without too much effort?
3) The transfer case adaptor kit from this mark chap is a bit steep for current budget, is there anyone in NZ that can provide a cheaper option? I tried calling a ton of wreckers but having no joy getting a used set up. It looks like the output shaft has to be removed and im guessing cut down then a modified housing fitted to the back of the box? Thats all i can tell from the searches Ive done so far anyway.

I might have not used all the right key words in my searches so some of this info may be out there already, would appreciate a heads up if you know where to find it.

Also Im in Wellington and can swap live crayfish for parts

[slidenyo]

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... 15&t=38770
this fella has a trans adapter for sale ,
leave the diffs standard the commodore 3.08 ratio will be far too tall once you consider the truck will run on far taller tires.
a 3.8 running right on good fuel with fresh plugs would see a 12l/100km average with my driving also remembering that motor had done 340k.
I also found dropping my ratio to 3.45 in the car drastically improved towing without changing the gas mileage

[Weemsy]

I think that a bighorn transfer box can be mounted to the back of a commodore trans without too much hassle.

Not done it myself, but I know of quite a few done in hawkes bay.

Pruggerdore on here has done it to his, maybe flick him a pm, he's a good bugger and will give you good advise.

[shortylux]

1) I very much doubt it. I know the Toyota V6's are bad for economy. But can you imagine that a 89 3.8L V6 is going to be more economical than a 93 3.0L V6.

I have no experience with the Toy V6 but I had a VP motor in my 82 Hilux. Admittedly I had 35" Simex with beadlocks (heavy) but my fuel economy never got better than about 6 or 7 kpl (15.5 L per 100k) and 5 kpl was not uncommon.

Also you can't expect as good economy from the VN motor once you put it in the heavier, bigger wheeled, less aerodynamic surf.

2) No, you can't use the Holden diff. Nor can I see any advantage to making it fit.

3) Rokhound did a write up on here about making a Holden/Toyota adapter, I just did a quick search but can't find it. Some one will know where it is.

Personally I would look into the Isuzu transfer if I were to do it again.

[slidenyo]

quite often you'll find a bigger engine works less and gives better economy,
mates 3l v6 was worse than my old xj and that was worse than the old mans 4.7 Cherokee.
and you'd have to argue that the yota motor was the most modern,
albeit designed to sit between the towers of a camry or the like.
im probably biased though I like old iron over new the exception being the ls1 and lm7 in the stables

[churchill]

I reckon there'll be a 75% chance that you'll use more gas due to the engine being an older, heavier less efficient design. I do however suspect the torque curve will be better suited to off-roading due to the extra capacity. From memory I think the Buick v6 you have is around 170hp and the Toyota v6 is 150hp so the ultimate power will be similar.

Dunno if I would do that transplant, how about a Lexus v8?

[Crash bandicoot]

The buick is an older design yes. like the lexus v8 block and the 3vzfe engine that the surf comes with.

In saying that the ecu system that runs the aforementioned engines is a different story. Australia has been using the buick engine longer then then toyota has been using the 3vzfe and 1uzfe however holden has been under tighter restrictions for longer forcing the introduction of better fuel economy and better emissions standards earlier then japan had. that was why GM originally cut two cylinders from the buick block to create the V6. It was an oil crisis after all that lead to it's existence, and why the engine has an odd firing order.

when it comes to yank engines the old adage goes there is no substitute for cubic inches and it is still true to this day. a bigger capacity engine will always use less gas under the same conditions that a smaller engine is subjected to. And the only reason GMH stopped using it in 2004-5 is due to once again 3rd tier emissions rules. It was cheaper to design a new engine then redesign heads and control systems to bring the buick block into line with the new rules.

I've owned a 3vzfe hilux surf and a 1uzfe powered hilux ute and i wouldn't again the 3vz was a dog averaging 380 litres a tank always had a oil leak or water leak some where and usually one of those pain in the arse little pipes around the valley cover....the 1uz was too much of a pain to work on in a tight space and under the conditions...i.e off road and towing applications it sucked just as much fuel.

the most efficient petrol powered vehicle i have owned and currently own another just like it is a 5.7 litre VY commodore.

It's how you drive not what you drive.

[churchill]

^^sorry but a mileage figures state Holden v6 uses less gas than a Holden v8 in a commodore. In fact I think you'll find that in any range of cars that are supplied with various size engines the smaller engine will use less gas. I suspect that this won't hold true if you are driving a vehicle beyond its peak power rpm where it's efficiency drops off and the larger engine would be closer to its peak torque which is where peak efficiency is.

Fuel economy is related to how you drive but more the engine technology/design, transmission, vehicle aerodynamics etc.

Harrison, There is a chance that you will use less gas but I suspect it will be remote with that engine unless toyota really did stuff the design of that v6.

Really need someone who has done that conversion to confirm this cause we're all just making guesses at the moment.

[tuk]

early holden v6 with auto trans - mates upto the transfer case of a 90-94 bighorn but also has to be from an auto. the shafts too long from the commy so have to make a braket to cover the exposed shaft as it runs a little bit of oil. Drive shafts will need to be adapted from your diffs to the isuzu transfer.

hope this helps

[J_Dub]

Dont be put off by the holden v6.
They are simple. Larger capacity than the toy v6 and far easier to work on.
You will get better milage though not a huge amount.
They are far more reliable.
Though it is a lot of work for some good gains not great

[Crash bandicoot]

churchill...... fair call.. but the L36 engine from a 95 commdore is 152 kw and 312 NM of torque.

the 3vzfe is 112 kw and 244 NM

Don't know about you but that's sufficient power gain to negate any extra fuel usage.

[churchill]

Agreed, the swap engine is from an 89 commodore so its closer to 170 bhp. A later model Buick would be worth it as you state.

[Harrison]

Haha thanks for the replies. I will look into the bighorn transfer box as an option but have also followed slidenyos link to find out about the adaptor.

Talking fuel economy its hard to decide now how the engines will compare as stated by the two arguments but Im pretty sure I'll be happier with a buick under the hood and it surely cant get any worse than about 300km to the tank I'm already getting...

Also good to know about the final drives, I wasnt too sure about that after our workshop manager said it may affect the cert. if the ratios are out.

[slidenyo]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 768325.htm
just spied this also reckons he can supply with a transfer case on the auto if you read down, also a bit closer

[Harrison]

Thanks for the info, project is now canned since we are expecting a new addition to the family. If anyone wants the full set up you can have it for what I paid for it, $350. Should be everything you need - engine and box, shifter, uncut loom, ecu, intake pipe and filter box, trans support, all the bolts involved, radiator and electric fan, exhaust headers and bits and pieces. Its on trademe for a bit more but grateful for the info so its on here for cheaper. Thanks again. 0212450999.

N.B-You will still need the adaptor or GM transfer case and some light engineering and fabrication.

[Cambo]

Where in the country are you?