Surf intermittant starting issue

[fweddy]

Since about October last year my '94 Surf (1kz) has had a starting fault.

Symptoms: Sometimes when I go to turn the key its totally dead, not a hint or any attempt to start, if I hold the key on there is a faint click about 2 seconds later like something electrical turning back off. It has never happened when I go to start it after its been sitting for a long period (like over night) but may do after sitting for up to an hour. It might do it three times in a day or not for a month. I can't yet find any other happenings that might be linked to it. I can't say I've noticed it progressively getting worse.

I have always got it started in the end and tried lots of different things like hitting the starter, turning off other devices, checking connections, scratching my head, talking to it in unfriendly tones, tyre kicking etc, but the only solution is to keep turning the key again and again until my arm hurts too much or it starts (have you ever noticed how awkward a position the key is actually in, and this is made worse when using your left hand because your right one is aching?) It might take 10 attempts or 50 but on some randomly selected lucky jackpot it will just start, sometimes by this time I'm just flicking the key on and off repetitively that I turn it off again and have to keep trying for the next lucky attempt.

I've tried leaving it for a while before trying again (once I left it for a number of hours and it started, but every other time I need to get going - like at the fuel station, up someones drive, at the post office etc). Sometimes when I arrive some where, just to test the cheeky thing, I'll start it again just after I turn it off and there is no problem, then maybe after 5 mins it won't, or it might!

It has a Uniden alarm/immobiliser so I've wondered if that is related, or is it starter related? The starter option would make me think it would be progressively getting worse but its not. If it just happened to be the position something has stopped in in its rotation, it makes no sense that it will start a number of hours later when nothing has moved, unless it cools down over a few hours and reconnects - sometimes. Seems like electrical gremlins?

Had one new battery last year but that was faulty so replaced with two new ones a few months later. Fitted a UHF radio in January but the problem was before and after that. Nothing else has really changed except fuel in the tank and kms on the odo.

Any other thoughts?

[Jay]

When it happen's - are you getting the usual lights on the dash board before you try to engage the starter?

Jay

[stovanovich]

This is gonna sound really stupid & basic but check the connections to the battery. I had a similar problem with my Teranno and found out that they just weren't done up tight enough

[BlakeNZ]

I believe it is a fault in your actual ignition switch. 20 years old, used many times a day… worn connections inside.
If it's not that, then i'd have the immobilizer disconnected temporarily to test that out.

[Jay]

This is gonna sound really stupid & basic but check the connections to the battery. I had a similar problem with my Teranno and found out that they just weren't done up tight enough

That was my first thought too....

Even if you are getting lights on when you turn the key on, if the connections are dodgy, when the starter tries to engage, it might not be able to draw enough juice from a bad connection.

[mudlva]

contactor in the solenoid on the starter

it a $1.50 part that I put in after first replacing two batteries and pulling the ign' apart looking for faulty or worn somethings, that I couldn't and didn't find

[Team Tonka]

Yeh, go for the starter solenoid contacts first, they are the bit that suffers off roading. With the Toyota they are easily serviceable. Probably only crap in there.

[BigSkellsy]

Thanks for asking this question as mine is doing the same at the mo. Turn the key, dash lights up and nothing happens for a few seconds before it finally decides to start up.

[jimmyf8]

I also have this issue.

Occasionally when I turn the key it just ticks. Sometimes if I hold it on for a second or two longer it will fire up but sometimes I have to turn it off and on until it starts. More often than not though it starts sweet so hasn't bothered me too much but has puzzled me.

All the lights on the dash light up when it doesn't start and I don't have an immobiliser.

[nzlux]

I also have this issue.

Occasionally when I turn the key it just ticks. Sometimes if I hold it on for a second or two longer it will fire up but sometimes I have to turn it off and on until it starts. More often than not though it starts sweet so hasn't bothered me too much but has puzzled me.

All the lights on the dash light up when it doesn't start and I don't have an immobiliser.

My LN106 hilux (2.8 diesel) does the same thing, once every few months, hot or cold the key does nothing, turn off then back on an starts

[churchill]

Has this problem on a Celica I used to own, turns out the start circuit wasn't able to draw enough current to fully engage the starter solenoid. A relay was fitted in place that used the key switch to operate the relay which then engaged the starter. Simpler solution would've been to replace the multi position switch on the back of the key after reading earlier posts.

[fweddy]

When it happen's - are you getting the usual lights on the dash board before you try to engage the starter?

Jay

Yep, everything is just as you would expect except it doesn't do any starting.

This is gonna sound really stupid & basic but check the connections to the battery. I had a similar problem with my Teranno and found out that they just weren't done up tight enough

Worth a try but have had the batteries and terminals replaced since this problem has been there.

I believe it is a fault in your actual ignition switch. 20 years old, used many times a day… worn connections inside. If it's not that, then i'd have the immobilizer disconnected temporarily to test that out.

I've played around with the key position etc etc but haven't tested the ignition any further than that - but I'm guessing the ignition is ok due to the faint click a second or so later. Eliminating the immobilizer is a sensible step.

contactor in the solenoid on the starter
it a $1.50 part that I put in after first replacing two batteries and pulling the ign' apart looking for faulty or worn somethings, that I couldn't and didn't find

A mechanic mentioned this just the other day - will check this out.

Thanks for asking this question as mine is doing the same at the mo. Turn the key, dash lights up and nothing happens for a few seconds before it finally decides to start up.

Does yours start by just holding the key on? I have no joy doing that, the only solution is on off on off on off on off on off on off on off on off on off on start off (blast!!) on off on off on off on off on off on...

I also have this issue.

Occasionally when I turn the key it just ticks. Sometimes if I hold it on for a second or two longer it will fire up but sometimes I have to turn it off and on until it starts. More often than not though it starts sweet so hasn't bothered me too much but has puzzled me.

All the lights on the dash light up when it doesn't start and I don't have an immobiliser.

My LN106 hilux (2.8 diesel) does the same thing, once every few months, hot or cold the key does nothing, turn off then back on an starts

Like 50+ times?


Its getting work done tomorrow so will start with the starter solenoid. Will update on progress, I'll only know its fixed when it hasn't failed to start for a month or so.

[boon]

My 5VZ Surf has the exact same issue.
I'm about 95% sure it's the contacts in the solenoid, but if yours is an Auto the other thing worth checking is the park/neutral interlock switch on the gearbox, if it gets gunged up it stops the flow to your starter solenoid.

EDIT: Interim fix is an old wheel nut spanner under the drivers seat, with the lift on my truck I can reach in and whack the solenoid a couple of times which usually sorts it out.

[BigSkellsy]

yea, it will always eventually start. thinking that it will eventually become a problem like you're experiencing

[fweddy]

An update:

Just had the Surf in getting the powersteer gear worked on and asked the mechanics to check out the starting issue. They went through and checked all earths. Got it back from them a couple of weeks ago with no trouble and last night I had the starting issue again. So that eliminates the earthing problems.

Next I'll work on the starter and disable the immobilizer. It's a long process as it can take weeks for the problem to show again. Which also lessens my need to work on it, then it does it again and frustrates me into action once more!

I have been told that if it is starter issues it should progressively get worse and worse, I can't say I've noticed this.

[bounty2001]

As BlakeNZ suggested, I would look at the ignition barrel itself. I.e. put a multimeter in the terminals at the end of the barrel turn the key and see if you get voltage at start. I had a similar issue worked on acc, ign, but not always on start. replaced the end cap of the barrel and was good as gold.

[fweddy]

Another update - the problem seems to be fixed. It hasn't faulted since soon after my last post.

I had the immobilizer bypassed, and at the same time a loose wire was discovered up the back of the ignition. I'm not sure which of the two fixed the problem but those of you that suggested looking at the ignition barrel might not have been too far away from the location of the problem.