Offroad-Express

Hi,

Am planning to buy a good and decent 4WD, and looking to buy one since 2 months from now. Am not able to make up my mind between Hilux surf and Prado. Both in the year range 1996 to 1998 and Diesel with automatic transmission. I want to have one of these that gives me the following...
1. Good fuel economy
2. Low cost maintenance
3. Great road handling and comfort

I love both the vehicles. Another question to ask, all the Hilux surfs I have been looking are costing a lot. Is it being hyped or really costing that in the market. The costs are anything between $9 to $14K. You think its worth spending this money?
Also, there is one Prado 1996 for sale, done 210 Ks asking $11K, is that a right price? thanks.

Can anybody please help me out to choose one among these, really appreciate your response, thanks.

Only major differences apart from body shape I know of is that most 90 series prados have intercoolers, less common on surfs. And the prados have an 8 seat option, surfs only have 5. And think prado is full time 4wd as well but not sure.

what style prado are you after? beam axle square shape or ifs newer rounded shape?

Thanks guys. Am after 96/97 Prado and I think its beam axle square one.

I looked at both. the gentleman above is correct with the main differences being full-time 4wd and more seats in Prado.
I purchased a Surf, because it was cheaper AND it is not permanent 4WD.
The 210km Prado for $11 is a fair market price.
Be aware that the inter cooled Surfs and Prados are lasting much longer without cracking heads.(as far as i know, all the kz90 prados are inter cooled.) (EDIT there ARE actually a small number of NON intercooled 90 series Prados, so always check for the top mounted intercooler.)
Apparently some aftermarket suspension (coils and springs) make them both drive/ride much better.
If you use the rear a lot, look for a "wheel under" model in the Surf, as it gets tiresome swinging it out of the way all the time.
Previous Maintenance history is most important when buying a 18 year old 4wd.
Both are very practical vehicles.
Off road, some people prefer the Surf as it is less bulky, and it doesn't have a centre diff(which have been known to break), unless you buy a Surf which has the ability to lock the centre diff, on the range selector, as the "difflock" model obviously does have a centre diff.
(EDIT :The 185 series Surfs with the locking centre diff are actually MUCH more common than the same model without the centre diff.)
get a pre purchase inspection, try and buy an inter cooled one, get a trans cooler installed, and you will experience cheap ownership IMHO.

The model prado you are looking at has IFS .

Thanks a lot Blake. That was an awesome insight and has cleared my mind of confusion as to what to select.
What I cant understand is why is Surf too expensive these days, and you reckon I go for inter cooled surf or Prado whichever suits best to my budget and the history of the vehicle.

Prado - Permanent 4wd, Has centre diff lock which is prone to breaking offroad, great road truck loved mine, has factory intercooler as well

With any 1kz motors the heads cracking are a common issue (happens between 150-250k check if head has been done check viscous fan is ok, has radiator fluid been changed regularly?, has the auto box been serviced regularly?

Surf would be better if you are taking offroad, however prado is better onroad

Thank you very much Jerry, appreciate that.

I have put over 200 000kms on my 90 series playdoh. As stated above the ctr diff is crap. Apart from this all the underpinnings and platform are the same. (in fact when my ctr diff shite itself, I replaced the transfer case with a 185 series surf one). As for cost, welcome to Toyota resale.

I would like to get rid of my old girl, but to replace it with what I want is $60-70 000 exercise so I am still toying with the idea of taking to it with a grinder to turn it into a well side ute.

we had a 97 prado that didn't have an intercooler. Was NZ new. So they don't all have them.

Also has anyone actually heard of the later model 1kz cracking heads? I have never heard of a kz90 prado cracking a head.

Petemcc wrote:Also has anyone actually heard of the later model 1kz cracking heads? I have never heard of a kz90 prado cracking a head.

Yip...my brothers while driving Taupo to Auckland with 4 under 5's in the car.

I stand corrected haha

the ECU's are starting to fail on them (like the earlier ones) these can be fixed tho

How tall are you?, do you intend sleeping in the back whilst camping?, I'm 6"2 and have a platform setup in the back of a 93 surf, and I fit with the tailgate up, not sure if there is that much room in a Prado?, or if its even something to think about for you but it does beat fawking around putting a tent up if its just the one or two of you

Its been an impressive responses, thanks to all. Jafa, am 5"8 tall, so either of the trucks make no difference for me. All I wanted was which one of these is more reliable both on road and off road considering economy, comfort and maintenance. Based on Blake's suggestion, an intercooled turbo is also in my mind which is not easy to find.

There's another dealer who is asking for $13K for a 96 Surf that has clocked 180Ks. Reckon this is a fair price, and how much can I negotiate for if all is well.

I have a 1998 intercooled 1kz surf.
Never gets driven gently and has 312,000kms on it and the occasional off road play and its never let me down, no breakages or anything. Still original head too (just have to always make sure radiator and fans in good nick and they last)
Gets about 550kms to a tank, prob more if you dont drive like me with a lead foot

Difference to the prados is the prados are full time 4wd with centre diff lock and low range vs the surfs have the ability to be in 2wd, 4wd open centre, 4wd locked and 4wd low range locked, so assuming the 2wd option and lower weight they may have slightly better fuel economy

FYI: the long wheel base prados and the surfs actually share the same chassis and engine


and if you're a big immature kid like me the surfs 2wd option in the rain results in you laughing your backside off as it drifts and spins at the lights (just tap 4wd button to prevent this as makes it open 4wd same as prados, very important in rain/sleet snow as loads of power makes a tail happy truck in 2wd)

have you seen this inter cooled Surf for $6500? Higher kms, but you also have cash left in your wallet.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 341389.htm
I forgot to say, be wary of prados or surfs that have towed a boat, or done a lot of beach work, as they may suffer rust in the future.
Here's an example of what can happen…
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 159298.htm
The suspected blown head gasket is much more likely to be a cracked head. Nice honest dealer to mention the rust underneath. they aren't prone to rust, but if you back them in at the boat ramp enough times...

Thanks Bush and Blake.
By the way, I still didn't have chance to see Prado as the buyer didn't turn up Will keep you posted.

"the buyer didn't turn up"????
why didn't you turn up?

the prados you can drop all the seats and it makes a comfy bed

The Prado I was eyeing for has clocked more than 300k, hence dropped the idea. Found a Surf 1996 with just 180k and asking 12k. Can I go ahead if everythings well. And I also saw Bighorn 1997 with 200k. Obviously surf is the best bet, but my mind started wavering if I should go for Bighorn spending less than half the price than surf. Can anybody again throw me a light please, thanks.

before you pay 12K, you should keep an eye on this one, currently at $8K.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 420049.htm

Great, thanks Blake. Will try to check this out too. The 12 k one am trying to negotiate for 10. However will check out the one you sent, thanks again mate.

Been to view the Surf 96 Diesel Turbo who was quoting $11,500 which has clocked 180K. The truck looks good but Timing belt not done and Head gasket not replaced which should be replace essentially after 150k. So how much you think will it cost to do these, around $3K? that's what I guess. Wanting to quote $9k not a penny more.
The listing link you sent is a bidding one which is currently at 8k, hence can't be sure upto what price it may go.

no don't replace the head gasket just for fun! Some of these motors have done 500,000kms without being opened. Who told you to replace the head gasket???
The timing belts on these motors are very easy to do, as they are high in the engine bay and right at the front. Hence that are not expensive to replace.

In the Dog & Lemon report, it was stated that cylinder Head need to be replaced after 150k, thats how I came to know but not until you are telling that it ain't necessary. So you reckon just timing belt to be done.

mramana wrote:In the Dog & Lemon report, it was stated that cylinder Head need to be replaced after 150k, thats how I came to know but not until you are telling that it ain't necessary. So you reckon just timing belt to be done.

Cylinder head and head gasket are completly different $200 for gasket up to $1500 for Cylinder head thats just for parts, I would be doing cambelt, tensioners, idlers and waterpump at that aswel as getting the radiatior cleaned and fluid checked in the cooling fan.

the whole point of buying an inter cooled one is that they seldom crack their heads. Keep the cooling system in good order, put a bigger exhaust on it, and enjoy mega km!