Offroad-Express

Oh mannn this age old problem again.....sigh. I have owned 5 Discos to date and this is my first with the *&^%$#@#$%^& donut.............

Just a quick survey, which is sure to awaken all the experts which is great. I want to show two photos of two donuts and see what the common opinion is as to which is the better one (very obvious) but really interested in hearing where you think I bought 3, yes THREE, donuts from in NZ that lasted less than 1000 km.
THEN your humble opinions on what the cause is. Now as much I want to hear form you guys please no silly comments or none constructive comments as I really want to learn more from this and also have my own opinion.

I addition to this there are 2 Discos concerned. One is a LPG V8i auto (95) 188km and the other TD300 5 spd (98) 162km. Conditions travelled since fitting the donuts that failed were 90% sealed roads on open motor way with both having done a 60-70km farm safari on existing tracks. No heavy off roading at all, just well kept tracks. Of the worn ones, one of each is off each truck plus mine has "done" 2 donuts (not shown in photo)in approx. the same distance. Now with regards to the "arrows" on the side of the donuts, I have found out that these mean nothing at all as per my phone call to Land Rover NZ and the UK this week to 2 Land Rover outfits. Further more the Germany made donut has arrows..........they face both directions alternatively so there goes that obvious theory of facing forward as well. I have been informed they are manufactured symmetrically with no increased internal strengthing towards one particular direction at all and can be fitted either way round.

All interesting comments. I have heard the 'stories' of fitting them only one way but have never been able to confirm it myself.

There are cheap parts available that don't include the bolts and replacement 'centre bearing' and they seem to fail more often.
From the oval in the centre on the two broken ones I would guess it hasn't been centred properly or was off centre causing the failure.

Also I can't see any markings on the two broken ones like there is on the 'new' one in your photos.

I was going to say were they manuals or autos but see one of each. An auto maybe more sympathetic to 'shock' loading than a manual with the clutch 'dropped'.

a couple of questions unanswered in your original post;
Were the parts genuine Land Rover or the cheaper aftermarket ones?
Was just the rubber donut replaced or was the 'centre bearing' replaced as well?
Were the vehicles standard or do they have raised suspension?

If vehicle suspension lifted then have you considered fitting a 4-bolt flange and using drive shaft with UJ?

Original Landrover parts could be part of the problem.

"Hi all,

There has been an urgent safety notice issued about a faulty batch of these couplings issued by Land Rover. Apparently the joints have been failing early and breaking up! According to land rover Canada it affects couplings made from April 2011 to February 2012 and has led to a parts recall as part of the Canada motor vehicle safety act, so it may be worth contacting Land Rover UK to find out if you're entitled to a free replacement.

cheers Craig."

Came from this website http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/238462-Propshaft-rubber-coupling

Cant help with why, other than wondering if your trucks are lifted and if so, could the drive shaft UJ's be running out of parallel and causing vibration. The vibration is destroying the rubber?? Any chance the UJ's could have got out of phase??

Why not just bin the Donut system and fit one of the "off the shelf" aftermarket replacement kits that are out there?? I got a kit from www.mainlandrover.co.nz to convert the Disco diff I fitted my Defender.

Problem solved for ever

Earlier model had a UJ, so just get a pre 93 (I think) prop shaft. Its a straight swop.

Team Tonka wrote:Earlier model had a UJ, so just get a pre 93 (I think) prop shaft. Its a straight swop.

Yes and .... No.
The drive shaft will fit but only after the pinion flange has been changed on the diff head to a 4-bolt.
And the pinion flange can either be a coarse spline as in early and fine for later pinions.

Having said that some of the later model face lifted Discovery's did have standard drive shaft arrangement rather than the 'donut' but not many.

Ralfie wrote:All interesting comments. I have heard the 'stories' of fitting them only one way but have never been able to confirm it myself.

There are cheap parts available that don't include the bolts and replacement 'centre bearing' and they seem to fail more often.
From the oval in the centre on the two broken ones I would guess it hasn't been centred properly or was off centre causing the failure.

Also I can't see any markings on the two broken ones like there is on the 'new' one in your photos.

I was going to say were they manuals or autos but see one of each. An auto maybe more sympathetic to 'shock' loading than a manual with the clutch 'dropped'.

a couple of questions unanswered in your original post;
Were the parts genuine Land Rover or the cheaper aftermarket ones?
Was just the rubber donut replaced or was the 'centre bearing' replaced as well?
Were the vehicles standard or do they have raised suspension?

If vehicle suspension lifted then have you considered fitting a 4-bolt flange and using drive shaft with UJ?

Sorry for the delay, only logged back on now.

Ok the donuts are from The Mount Shop. The land Rover price was $350 odd incl and these were $132 odd so choose the cheaper option as bot I and my Son needed one. After they failed and I asked where they buy them (China or Land Rover Euro made) they said they buy them from "Land Rover". Turns out that after I 'lost" it a bit with the MD asking none related questions about the Land Rovers and sending me Utube links of some random guy fitting them, addressing me by his branch manager's name TWICE (not paying attention to my detailed emails at all) that I demanded the email from Land Rover stating "abuse or extreme off roading" he pointed out that he gets them from a "Land Rover Specialist " in the UK so not Landrover UK.

By centre bearing I assume you mean the spigot, no. There was no ovality, no run out, and the was as tight as hell. I followed the same technique I did when I worked for a Land Rover franchise years ago. Only replace if out of spec etc. (PS: There is no spigot in the kit and no instructions either)

Son's truck has 1" lift which is nothing BUT understand that the cheaper donunts can be killed by this. Lots and lots of guys I asked in the UK being Land Gurus say that this will not do what happened to mine including Landrover UK Technical dept. Their comments were " holy smoke, that's not one of our rubber dampers" and were shocked at the damage in less than 1000km.

In conclusion, I bought two used 4 bolt prop kits with flanges for less than $100 each, going to buy new pinion seals and change then in the week to come and move on.

churchill wrote:Original Landrover parts could be part of the problem.

"Hi all,

There has been an urgent safety notice issued about a faulty batch of these couplings issued by Land Rover. Apparently the joints have been failing early and breaking up! According to land rover Canada it affects couplings made from April 2011 to February 2012 and has led to a parts recall as part of the Canada motor vehicle safety act, so it may be worth contacting Land Rover UK to find out if you're entitled to a free replacement.

cheers Craig."

Came from this website http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/238462-Propshaft-rubber-coupling

Thanks Craig but found out these are no genuine Land Rover this week.

Disco Gofer wrote:In conclusion, I bought two used 4 bolt prop kits with flanges for less than $100 each, going to buy new pinion seals and change then in the week to come and move on.

I thought the 4-bolt flange kits were only about $80-$100 each brand new and that included a new pinion seal.

And genuine Land Rover 'donuts' come complete with spigot and new bolts, hence the variances in pricing.

So long and short of this is don't buy Landrover donuts from the mountshop. I wonder if other donuts from the mount shop are equally useless?

I have dealt with the mountshop a couple of times and found them to be reasonably helpful. I never had a chance to thrash my XJ sideways up ski mountain roads (after hours/pre-season of course) after installing my mountshop engine mount so can't comment on the quality of the parts I bought. Corolla stuff I've bought from them seems fine.

Im guessing the mount shop ones are cheaply made ones. We carry the GKN ones which touch wood haven't failed like the aftermarket ones, except when the vehicle has been lifted or the centring bearing is flogged. Pretty sure GKN would supply the ones for LR Factory.
Best way around is others have said, early disco (rangy classic) drive shaft and 4 bolt drive flange

Disco Gofer wrote:The land Rover price was $350 odd incl and these were $132 odd so choose the cheaper option as bot I and my Son needed one. After they failed and I asked where they buy them (China or Land Rover Euro made) they said they buy them from "Land Rover". Turns out that after I 'lost" it a bit with the MD asking none related questions about the Land Rovers and sending me Utube links of some random guy fitting them, addressing me by his branch manager's name TWICE (not paying attention to my detailed emails at all) that I demanded the email from Land Rover stating "abuse or extreme off roading" he pointed out that he gets them from a "Land Rover Specialist " in the UK so not Landrover UK.

Son's truck has 1" lift which is nothing BUT understand that the cheaper donunts can be killed by this. Lots and lots of guys I asked in the UK being Land Gurus say that this will not do what happened to mine including Landrover UK Technical dept. Their comments were " holy smoke, that's not one of our rubber dampers" and were shocked at the damage in less than 1000km.

So basically you thought you had found a price glitch in the matrix. So you bought the cheapest shittiest ones, which look nothing like the OEM ones. Then you were surprised when they shat out. Then you came on here to defame the supplier after you threw your toys at him for doing his job. Ots the same old thing of 'you get what you pay for.' The reason the aftermarket item is 70% cheaper is because its made of reconstituted dog shit.

Major LOL dot com.

Disclaimer: I consider the above post neither silly or non-constructive.

lax2wlg wrote:

Disco Gofer wrote:The land Rover price was $350 odd incl and these were $132 odd so choose the cheaper option as bot I and my Son needed one. After they failed and I asked where they buy them (China or Land Rover Euro made) they said they buy them from "Land Rover". Turns out that after I 'lost" it a bit with the MD asking none related questions about the Land Rovers and sending me Utube links of some random guy fitting them, addressing me by his branch manager's name TWICE (not paying attention to my detailed emails at all) that I demanded the email from Land Rover stating "abuse or extreme off roading" he pointed out that he gets them from a "Land Rover Specialist " in the UK so not Landrover UK.

Son's truck has 1" lift which is nothing BUT understand that the cheaper donunts can be killed by this. Lots and lots of guys I asked in the UK being Land Gurus say that this will not do what happened to mine including Landrover UK Technical dept. Their comments were " holy smoke, that's not one of our rubber dampers" and were shocked at the damage in less than 1000km.

So basically you thought you had found a price glitch in the matrix. So you bought the cheapest shittiest ones, which look nothing like the OEM ones. Then you were surprised when they shat out. Then you came on here to defame the supplier after you threw your toys at him.

Major LOL dot com.

I carry both aftermarket and OEM on quite a few same parts as I know some people just cant afford the better product. You do hope that while the OEM one will last 100,000km, the aftermarket may (should) last 30,000km. Not lasting 1000km on minimal offroad use is pretty pathetic. Ive been caught before.

No need for the LOL dot com shit

lilpigzuk wrote:No need for the LOL dot com shit

Roger that.
Was just trying to add some humor.
I'll leave now.

Your quite knowledgable Lax, contribute your wisdom. No need to be a dick. Even cheap after market stuff is still legally required to be "fit for purpose" and sub 1000 km is not fit for purpose.

Fair enough , I guess I just think its a bummer that the supplier is getting bad press when there are so many other possible contributing factors to the items failing, such as the install procedure (orientation), competence of the technician installing it, existing wear and tear in the driveshaft UJs, ride height altterations and driving style.

I agree they should last more than 1000kms. These aftermarket parts are designed to 'do the job' - just - under 'normal operating conditions' ie factory tire size, ride height and in street driving urban environment with a sensible driver, and assuming the rest of the drivetrain is in good running condition.

I sort of see it like rebuilding your kingpins with the imitation Chinese bearings, then wondering why there is play in them after 2-3 wheeling trips with 35" tyres.

In saying that however its really none of my business, I promised myself I wouldn't get into arguments with team Land Rover, because theres just no point. So retrospectively I probably shouldn't have made that initial post. Please see it as an attempt to defend the supplier and consider other factors before (albeit maybe justifiably) damaging the reputation of a local business.

GKN ones including new bolts are only 30 pounds plus postage, just have to wait a week for it to arrive.

Thanks for the replies guys, good or bad. I have had a used "Made in Germany" in my Son's truck for just on 1100km now and have been checking his one every 200km and there are no signs of cracking. Looks just the same as I installed it. Definitely a case of crappy product from the supplier.
My Disco on the other hand now sports a 4 bolt flange and propshaft and runs smooth. Will convert my son's truck when and if it finally gives as I bought two sets of drive shafts and seals in one hit.

Glad to say I have moved on and made sure every one I talked to don't buy this product from The Mount shop as even on the South Island the Landy guys stay far away from them there too. Win some loose some.
Even my son's other Disco which is an auto full mud truck with welded read diff has a perfect donut and it gets hammered on new 35" Silverstone Extremes. But that has a genuine donut on it.

Thanks again for all the help n advice folks.

Just got to add here. I've got a 300tdi disco that to be honest I give death but still love it. 2 inch lift Twin lockers manual 235 85 16 . Not a straight panel on it now. I've got the dough nut still on. One went when truck was still shiny and straight . Brought one from Rex at Land Rover spares and 30,000 + ks of every thing from towing boats to climbing rocks up at the dennison plateau. I check it often waiting for cracks thinking of doing the swap to a uj but yet to die.

That's great endurance, you must have the good quality one on for sure. I knew they should last longer than mine did and started to wondering if it was how I was fitting them.