Got an 80.. now what..

Big · Post by **Big** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:15 pm

well seems there a few of us doing 80's as tow wagons or ppl movers or just plan club trucks.. Thought I would start a thread instead of adding to my other trucks thread.. :lol:

Bit of a run down
92 80 series with safari intercooler, trans cooler, lifted approx. 3"s, just put a 3" exhaust on it and also trying to get the boost gauge working as I auberins dual gauge ( EGT, boost )
After getting the egt to work took it for a fang up the crown range zigzags.. :shock:

egt got to 840-50 degs.. OMG so stopped at the top rang the guy I got the truck off and asked him how much pump tweaking had been done.. He said a little from a garage that did it a few years ago ..

so now my problem is how to work out what has ben done..

My first thing will be to back off the main screw as this will have the most affect with egt.. OR ill up the boost to get most out of the fuel going in.. From what I have read, max on a 1hdt should be about 750 deg pre turbo.. can someone confirm this..?
WIll get some pics up later as reference for everyone.. but im amazed at the egt temps.. As the truck will be a tow truck that is just unacceptable to have it that high..

More later K

Bruiser70 · Post by **Bruiser70** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:42 pm

Diesel pumps in CHCH tuned my 80 for me. I have Pyro (pre turbo) and boost gauges installed im pushing up around 750-800 if im absolutely nailing it up a incline have been told it can be driven to around 650-700 if required for short stints (towing up-hill etc) i try keep below 650 but with boost at 14-15psi and fuel tweek im not left wanting more go very often and pyro never goes above more than 500-600. Also did injectors with tune though as im told they can be issue with higher temps and more fuel dump? also removed the cold start plunger from pump if your pump has as option add-on?

imsohi · Post by **imsohi** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:44 pm

well I have put an egt gauge on my std cruiser motor wise 2 inch lift with 33 will max out at 950 I will keep u posted with all changes after each upgrade exhaust, intercooler and then more boost and pump tweak. Always wanted to start with a std platform to get an idea of acceptable max temps and best cooling options.

Big · Post by **Big** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:09 pm

yea same as I was wanting to keep a step by step process but for me getting back to std settings maybe a mission..
I have re set the plunger diaphragm( spelling..lol) wound the mid range fuelling back 4-5 clicks as I don't really know where it was.. also still trying to find off boost std setting.. but even with these done it still getting to 820 full tit.. and I cant get it to rev to 3500 so might be the max rev range to play with also.. :roll:

Had a look at the manual and ffs.. I can reset but need it in pieces so I can measure everything to specs.. will have another read and see if I can make any sense of it.. :shock:

unless someone got some usefull info for mid range, off boost, and plunger..

( I think it back anyway as there were 2 lines on it.. so placed it back to the biggest one as that would have been std.. more later.. tata

Trundle · Post by **Trundle** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:57 pm

You my friend need to get a wide band and to tune to AFR , I would check your pump timing to start with though , mother of egt you guys are on the dangerous side of life also !

Big · Post by **Big** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:19 pm

Trundle wrote:You my friend need to get a wide band and to tune to AFR , I would check your pump timing to start with though , mother of egt you guys are on the dangerous side of life also !

I was thinking a afr..lol yes correct in saying on a time bomb..

Which was why I wanting to reset everything back to factory or close to it.. might have to put it on a dyno and get it done right.. :roll:

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:01 am

on the flat...

With 3" exhaust 35" tyres & auto I was peaking at about 820

Then with top mount intercooler max was about 750

Now with manual gearbox I struggle to hit 700

Also Rick @ 4wd accesories noted all the standard settings for a 1HDT before playing with his, if you call him he might be able to send you the info.

Big · Post by **Big** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:10 am

wjw wrote:on the flat...

With 3" exhaust 35" tyres & auto I was peaking at about 820

Then with top mount intercooler max was about 750

Now with manual gearbox I struggle to hit 700

Also Rick @ 4wd accesories noted all the standard settings for a 1HDT before playing with his, if you call him he might be able to send you the info.

ill give him a call.. as I know him well.

Big · Post by **Big** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:11 pm

ok have done some research about all of this and this doc from the service manual has the measurements that should be set to

Now my question is.. I have measured mine and the shim on the top is around 4.5mm along with the measurement to the bushing which is only 14.5mm give or take a little.. need a new set of calipers.. :roll:

Should I wind in ( down) the bushing to spec? which is giving it even more fuel.. I also have wound out the main fuel screw (another 1/2 or so turn)as I have a feeling that this has been wound in too..

Yet to drive it but I got a feeling it'll lower egt a fair bit..
Sho7uld I also set the shim, bush and plunger to spec.. as I don't want to upset things too much as maybe some stuff has been done to the pump.. which is why the bushing is only 14.5mm instead of 19mm give or take a bit..
Mystified..

HELP..lol
I also am getting the feeling that the more things get turned in. clockwise the more fuel gets pumped.. so backing it off should have reverse affect..? Im not a diesel pump specialist so any advice would be great..
Im also trying to have a thread so anyone in my predicament can sort it out as so far basic tools are all that is needed apart from checking the timing which is getting done later today..
Later

Big · Post by **Big** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:44 pm

ok checked timing and surprise surprise.. :roll:

it was out.. 1.47(mm I think) and we reset it to 1.30 not quite to the lowest setting in the fsm but that's where it is..

for the record FSM states 1.29 - 1.35
Now to get the boost gauge working to check pressure then up to 14 psi.. I have put back the settings to where they were as I intend to up boost.

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:58 pm

My advice is to do one thing at a time and keep driving it to see what change you have made.

From my limited experience I have the following understanding

The boost comp just limits fuel until full boost is gained. If you are to decrease the tension on the diaphragm it will just get that full amount of boost quicker.

In my thinking you want it to be at the bottom of its range off boost and just getting to max at full boost. So if you have it set standard (assuming it is set to use its full range) and then up the boost you will max out on fuel at standard boost then run leaner in the top end.

I am not sure how to adjust the difference in fuel between no comp and full comp. Ie the diff between full fuel off boost and at full standard boost might might be 10%. but when you up the boost the fuel you want right up until full standard boost is the same but at full upped boost you might now need 15% more there for need to change compensator to have a range of 15% instead of 10% (numbers are made up)

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:08 pm

Doing this on phone so thought I had better post before I deleted it haha.

The fuel pump is effectively a mechanical speed governor. When you move the throttle you are telling it what speed to go to it then supplies more or less fuel per cycle until you reach that speed (rpm)

If you aren't getting full revs you need to adjust the plates where the throttle attaches onto the pump so that it can pull the plate around further at full throttle. I buggered this up one truck and full throttle was at idle speed!

The main fuel screw will adjust the maximum fuel setting per cycle. Adjusting this will make it richer and hotter when you are asking it for full fuel. Turning this back will make it cooler but upping the boost will to. I would suggest leaving it where you have it now and do the boost first sea as you seem to know where you want boost to be at the end.

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:10 pm

If someone knows more than me please tell me if I'm wrong haha. This is just my understanding and I would rather not give wrong advice.

Cheers
Pete

imsohi · Post by **imsohi** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:56 pm

Trundle wrote:You my friend need to get a wide band and to tune to AFR , I would check your pump timing to start with though , mother of egt you guys are on the dangerous side of life also !

If mine is stock I could imagine a lot of people are living on the dangerous side of the line as I don't drive it that hard :roll:

would be interested to see if any others have had egts on stock motors to see there results. Will borrow my mates AFR when I get a chance and post results.

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:21 am

imsohi wrote:
Trundle wrote:You my friend need to get a wide band and to tune to AFR , I would check your pump timing to start with though , mother of egt you guys are on the dangerous side of life also !

If mine is stock I could imagine a lot of people are living on the dangerous side of the line as I don't drive it that hard would be interested to see if any others have had egts on stock motors to see there results. Will borrow my mates AFR when I get a chance and post results.

Was easy to get mine over 850 stock. but the tuning between 80's seems to vary wildly.

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:02 am

found this this morning havent read it but it looks good

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j ... J7NE2n5ggw

Big · Post by **Big** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:33 pm

Petemcc wrote:Doing this on phone so thought I had better post before I deleted it haha.

The fuel pump is effectively a mechanical speed governor. When you move the throttle you are telling it what speed to go to it then supplies more or less fuel per cycle until you reach that speed (rpm)

If you aren't getting full revs you need to adjust the plates where the throttle attaches onto the pump so that it can pull the plate around further at full throttle. I buggered this up one truck and full throttle was at idle speed!

The main fuel screw will adjust the maximum fuel setting per cycle. Adjusting this will make it richer and hotter when you are asking it for full fuel. Turning this back will make it cooler but upping the boost will to. I would suggest leaving it where you have it now and do the boost first sea as you seem to know where you want boost to be at the end.

Indeed.. Now my timing is correct I am leaving things as they were and upping boost when I get my boost gauge working..Ill then post results

Big · Post by **Big** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:49 am

Well small update time.. Auberins are being assholes at this stage

.. They have sent a defect sensor and are offering me a 50% discount to buy another one.. Im like WTF send a working one.. If I knew this was going to take place.. I would have got some other brand.. but im committed at this stage.. bit pissed at this atm :evil:

I got the dual controller with egt and boost for the record..

Does anyone know of a local type boost(map) sensor that will work with the controller?

I have asked Auberins to either send a new sensor or refund me.. piss's me off..

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:38 pm

I have a Aubrins boost sensor somewhere you could borrow, another one of those round2it's....

I could send it down?

Big · Post by **Big** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:15 pm

If ya could that would be awesome.. as I do need it.. before end of the month as im towing the other one over the coast..for our annual trip over there.. ill pm you later

cheers

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:13 pm

Found it...

Big · Post by **Big** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:44 pm

ill check the numbers as if they are the same then just the sender will do.. cheers

skidmark · Post by **skidmark** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:14 pm

Depends on what presume rating it is but that looks like a gm map sensor, common with all link ecu etc aswell. And motors port applications apparently

Big · Post by **Big** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:30 pm

ok bit of an update.. work seems to be fkin me around a bit so spoke to a few diesel pump gurus and have decided and done the backing the main screw back to egt level of 720 degs give or take just a wee bit. Happy with pickup and general running so now only thing to do is start to wind the boost compensator down a bit at a time until either egt climb too much or black smoke starts to happen. Currently no black smoke so pretty happy, just a tiny wee bit when accelerating- not like before.. :shock:

so yea.. only way to get ya pump back to factory is you need to take it off and get the gurus to set it up again on the test bench.. and seeing as they are miles away I have opted to go with what I have done and egt will be the main killer, also from what I have picked up on again.. no such afr measuring tool for a diesel for the Joe average.. so only way is black smoke indicator. Clean burning means leanish , low egt but lower power.. bit of a compromise

For those that want to know what I did.. ill try explain here,

I turned main screw way down until it stalled even while I was upping the idle screw. ( I feel it just was too little fuel to run.)
I then upped main screw until 750rpm at idle after it started (turning the idle screw down as it'll go faster as you raise the main screw.)
I then took it for a burn adjusting the main screw and idle until I got to 720 degs egt upping the main screw and lowering the idle to keep 750 rpm ( no visible smoke at wot)It does climb over 720 to about 730 but at 3500 rpm+ which is not where ill be running most of the time.
What I'm going to do now is screw down the compensator( more fuel) in to give better low to mid range power watching for smoke and egt.. (from what I have read between the line is, one setting will affect the other so I'll be tweaking all if the egts get too high.
Ill also be watching boost when I get my sensor from either auberins or wjw

If someone has something to add or to watch out for then say something as I'm trying to do this for everyone that has an 80 and want to get reliable power maintaining serviceability and longevity . as some 80's go better then others and to document it will help others so yea

So far things are going ok.. first tow mission is our annual coast trip.. which is end of the month.. Anzac weekend.

More later when I got more data to share :wink:

smurf182 · Post by **smurf182** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:16 pm

Big wrote:, also from what I have picked up on again.. no such afr measuring tool for a diesel for the Joe average.. so only way is black smoke indicator. Clean burning means leanish , low egt but lower power.. bit of a compromise

I don't have one but from my understanding, any wideband AFR will do the job, these ones are popular and can be had for under $300

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

Big · Post by **Big** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:23 pm

smurf182 wrote:
Big wrote:, also from what I have picked up on again.. no such afr measuring tool for a diesel for the Joe average.. so only way is black smoke indicator. Clean burning means leanish , low egt but lower power.. bit of a compromise

I don't have one but from my understanding, any wideband AFR will do the job, these ones are popular and can be had for under $300

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

yea more research has resulted in afrs being used so ill take what I said back earlier.. :lol:

Just a lot of info says get timing right and tune to egt.. , I guess a basic theory of getting it in the ball park.. Which an AFR will get spot on..Thnx Papasmurf :wink:

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:02 pm

did you send a PM with your address?? if you have I cant see it

Big · Post by **Big** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:21 pm

wjw wrote:did you send a PM with your address?? if you have I cant see it

nope..

will do now.. just been busy getting hunting shit ready for next 4 days

Big · Post by **Big** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:24 pm

Anyway back on track.. opened up a compensator from a mates 80 and there was a LOT of differences so basically all I have done is given the main screw 1/4 more and it seems to be running a lot better starting etc..
But I have wound down the compensator to the bottom so the top hat bit is only just got a little resistance from the spring..( my mates 80 had no resistance) and there seems to be a lot more torque right through the rev range now and is revving much better, I'm also keeping an eye on egt's which don't seemed to have had any major affect.. time will tell..
More later :mrgreen:

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:07 am

on its way

Got an 80.. now what..

Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..

Re: Got an 80.. now what..