Offroad-Express

Copy & paste of an email reply I received on Monday 22nd January 2007:

Thank you for your email re access to the Waipara Gorge. This has been an ongoing problem for the past twelve months that is being dealt with by Mr Rob Gerard at Ecan. A meeting involving Mr Goord the land owner who erected the fences, 4WD Clubs, Jet Boat Association, Ken Sibley and the Stoneyhurst Farm Manager is to be held soon. This meeting was set down for last Saturday but due to illness had to be postponed. A new meeting time has still to be arranged. When all the issues have been resolved we hope that the access to the Waipara Gorge will be opened up again to the general public. I suggest that you contact Rob Gerard later in February for an update following the meeting he is arranging.

Regards

Dick Pilbrow
Enforcement Officer

Too bad about that, we were there in force and in person.
Al

What is the story regarding trips to the Waipara Gorge? I know there has been on going problems regarding access and who's right and who's wrong. I was planning a trip for some out of town members of ORE for early February and had the Waipara Gorge as a scenic river trip to do.
If I was doing it by myself I would have no problems about a bit of confrontation if someone was to try and stop me, but with visitors along I had better do it right. Is there anyone I need to phone or get in touch with to make the going easier?

WHEN SOMEONE SAYS NO! I SAY YES, ,

FITZY.

PM Liethfield as he has been doing the access bit for Canterbury ORE boys. Just go and use it I say. If you don't use it, you will loose it
Al

albundy wrote:PM Liethfield as he has been doing the access bit for Canterbury ORE boys. Just go and use it I say. If you don't use it, you will loose it
Al

Pretty much - seems that the owner is trying to get some obscure property right - the CRC should have prosecuted him when the barrier was first erected

Pics of who owns what etc are in my pics folder - ap1 and topo1 pics

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules.php?set_albumName=Waipara-Access&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

See your PM Smokey.

Waipara River Up date
Please see my post on the thread "Canterbury Water & River issues"
Paul

Could I appeal to the wider 4WD community to avoid using the upper Waipara River at this time and stay away from the area until further notice. (this is the area up stream from Stringers Bridge) This is a voluntary request.
It has been reported to us, I am sorry to advise that the gorge issue has blown up again recently with some issues relating to inappropriate 4WD activity in the river, reported to me that are going to be investigated thoroughly by Combined 4WD Clubs.
These recent issues (I will not go into detail here as we do not have all the facts) seem to be as a result of individual people, not clubs or organised trips, but are of such a nature that it brings the work we are trying to do working with land owners, land managers, neighbours and other recreational groups down to our knees. The irresponsible acts again of a few who should know better are bringing us into disrepute as we believe some of the people involved are actually linked to 4WD organisations.
I will not publish an out come here of these investigations, but will advise the wider community via this forum once we believe that the Upper Waipara is all go again.
Many thanks and in anticipation thanks for your support.
Paul

Once again Paul, I strongly suggest that you validate all your facts before making presumptive & prejudiced judgements thus:

access4WD wrote: ... inappropriate 4WD activity in the river ... The irresponsible acts again of a few who should know better are bringing us into disrepute
Paul

The governance of subjudicae applies, and I suggest that both you & Combined exercise the wisdom of impartiality and patience if your credibility is not to be undermined; monitor the outcome of due legal process before jumping to any misdirected and misguided reactionary judgements.

Leithfield wrote:Once again Paul, I strongly suggest that you validate all your facts before making presumptive & prejudiced judgements thus:

access4WD wrote: ... inappropriate 4WD activity in the river ... The irresponsible acts again of a few who should know better are bringing us into disrepute
Paul

The governance of subjudicae applies, and I suggest that both you & Combined exercise the wisdom of impartiality and patience if your credibility is not to be undermined; monitor the outcome of due legal process before jumping to any misdirected and misguided reactionary judgements.

Steady on there Leithfield. I cant see any problem with what has been said. No person or club has been mentioned, This is an ongoing issue (and not just at Waipara) with irresponsible idiots making things hard for those that do respect our access rights. It would be remiss of us not to do what we can to help remedy this situation. The guy who is erecting the fences/bollards is obviously a tosser, but a tosser with an issue thats outcome could swing either way at this stage. Squabbling about who said what about who is a distraction from the real issue of access, and it is access that Paul is helping us to protect. Before we get all defensive we should hear the message and not just read the words, not everyone has such a strong and flowery grasp of the english language as you do Leithfield, so sometimes the real message may get lost in translation. I for one appreciate any effort from anyone that can help maintain and/or improve the availability of good off road tracks for us all to enjoy.

Well put H2OLOVA, I used to live nearby and loved the wide open rivers, and the Waipara is a great spot. Sorry to hear about all the issues and it seems that a few stupid idiots are ruining it again for the majority. Letihfield seems to be running close to the wind, I assume from is nick name that he lives nead Letihfield or in that area somewhere, and maybe his quick reply was based on being too close to the action.
I also would have thought that Leithfield as PRO for ORE Assn you would be supporting what the combined joker is on about.

needswork wrote:Well put H2OLOVA

Commen sence :thumright:

needswork wrote: I also would have thought that Leithfield as PRO for ORE Assn you would be supporting what the combined joker is on about.

1/ My issue is not representative of an Association position, it is my position (note, no signature line).

2/ However, Paul's postings carry the signature of the Combined Clubs Org, and as that representative he has a responsibility in respect of that which he posts in a public forum. His comments thus:
"inappropriate 4WD activity in the river ... irresponsible acts again of a few who should know better are bringing us into disrepute"
are founded upon supposed fact.

3/ Had Paul requested cooperation without published pre-emptive judgements, I would have tabled no concern; the fact that he registered such judgements in public forum when by his own admission "we do not have all the facts", is my issue.

I will debate this no further.

Good on ya Leithfield...i agree with what you say.

Paul is judging unknown people guilty for doing something that isnt proven....i would suggest that nothing is posted about unproven acts until they are proven.

Leithfield wrote:

needswork wrote: I also would have thought that Leithfield as PRO for ORE Assn you would be supporting what the combined joker is on about.

1/ My issue is not representative of an Association position, it is my position (note, no signature line).

2/ However, Paul's postings carry the signature of the Combined Clubs Org, and as that representative he has a responsibility in respect of that which he posts in a public forum. His comments thus:
"inappropriate 4WD activity in the river ... irresponsible acts again of a few who should know better are bringing us into disrepute"
are founded upon supposed fact.

3/ Had Paul requested cooperation without published pre-emptive judgements, I would have tabled no concern; the fact that he registered such judgements in public forum when by his own admission "we do not have all the facts", is my issue.

I will debate this no further.

Just a couple of questions about this:

1, Have we not recently been invited or asked to have representation with the Combined Clubs?

2, Dirty great tyre tracks don't just appear so some idiot has caused this.

3, In this day and age people should and are expected to know better.

4, Unfortunately we will all get "tarred with the same brush" so any action whether good or bad does reflect back on the 4wd community as a whole.

All said and done i still stand by my first post on this issue. Whether Paul thinks its Tom, Dick or Harry that has caused this latest problem its gonna give the tosser farmer ammunition to back up any argument he may have to prevent us from using this area.

I TOTALLY disagree with the term 'Tosser Farmer'

Paul

People deal with shit getting left on their roads and lawns every weekend be it from the party up the road or the boy racers....doesn't mean i can go a build a wall over the footpath outside my house. If i did, i think i'd be called a tosser by a few.... and a damn sight worse to i'd imagine. so i think "tosser farmer" is a fair, if not very tame way of describing the f@#$en W$%nk#@.

I don't wish to enter debate at all, however would like to post personal experiecnce in the 'above Stringers' area in the last year.
I have entered the area twice in the last year on private trips, both times I have been verbally abused by seperate farmers for absolutely no reason other than we were there.
One of the two occasions I had my young children present and the language shouted at us from cliff top was attrocious

My own property backs into the Brooklands lagoon, it is a reserve which has a 4wd or two find their way into 'my back yard' and do considerable damage.
Do I go and abuse them and threaten them using vigiliantic tactics......no....I ring the park ranger and report the vehicles and behaviour to the apprpriate authorities.

Do I go and abuse them and threaten them using vigiliantic tactics......no....I ring the park ranger and report the vehicles and behaviour to the apprpriate authori ties.

funny I have been offroad and seen someone doing similar things, took photos of the viehicle and damage created and forwarded the information on. I even took photo's of someone putting down diesel and each car using it.

I don't mind gates or arangeing to visit areas with a phone call if that was an option, what does piss me off is someone taking the law into their own hands.

It is not up to an individual or group to restrict access to public places look at the dammage that happens to my place in winter when the rugby season is on and people park on the grass, I cant legaly tow them without a sign and cant have a sign without being a commerciial property.

Did everyone get a chance to read the 'Escape' advertising section in yesterdays paper
Interesting article on Clearmont's "buisness ventures" in the area........ nice shots of the gorge area, and a 4x4 in the upper Waipara river.
Certainly makes me think....... :silent:

http://www.claremont-estate.com/

Well looks like he has blocked access to create a commercial venture from the way the page reads... I was suspiscious this was going to happen.

http://www.claremont-estate.com/activit ... ities.html
http://www.claremont-estate.com/activit ... tours.html

http://www.discover-new-zealand.co.uk/s ... tours7.htm

Is Claremont Estate one of the people complaining about people using the Waiapara River Gorge????

He is the one thet used "colourful" language with us and complains the most, some of it is for good reason but mostly due to him thinking he ownes the riverbed.

we stoped to discuss and left he called the police saying we damaged his property, we were in the riverbed and this he classed as his property fortunatley we had video and still footage and didn't wash the truck.

Police took our side and told him not to waste their time.

Steve_t647 wrote:He is the one thet used "colourful" language with us and complains the most, some of it is for good reason but mostly due to him thinking he ownes the riverbed.

we stoped to discuss and left he called the police saying we damaged his property, we were in the riverbed and this he classed as his property fortunatley we had video and still footage and didn't wash the truck.

Police took our side and told him not to waste their time.

well fair enough, after all you were in their private nature reserve

Claremont’s guests have access to our enchanted valley in the foothills of the Southern Alps, the like of which you most surely have never seen!

Intertwined with braided rivers, craggy escarpments, precipitous gorges, pretty waterfalls, amazing rock formations, ancient boulders and rolling farmland, our 2,400 acre estate is both a working high country sheep and deer station and a unique, private nature reserve.

They wish for it remain private so their clients dont see a group of recreational 4wders in the background when taking photos of their private nature reserve.



sorry but I hate to say it but their attitude really bugs me.

Mike

I know how you feel Mike his attitude has pissed me off too.
I wonder if this landowner has permission from DOC or CRC or whom ever manages accees for commercial purposes to run tours through the gorge.
Does he has the correct type vehicles & suitably trained personell to safely operate .
Does he have the correct systems in place to ensure peoples safety during this venture.
Im sure we can do some digging & see if he has....if not we may be able to make him play by the rules.

Trev

Isn't that an interesting picture on his activities page... is that in the area in question?

Looks like a great spot, how has he "blocked access"?

when i was last up there ages ago dave there were post with wire rope through them from one bank to the other

perhaps we should have a south island ORE camp / semi-protest up the gorge. Large number of 4wders using their country as intended in an appropiate way.

I have never been up there and if its as nice as everyone makes out hell I better get up there before it gets blocked off I shall ring the station owner and inform him that 40 trucks will be camping overnight with a cooking fire (shouldnt be any fire bans at the moment)

Mike

Well if he is blocking off access we need to go up check it out..then take some pics then inform the police...we cant have someone blocking off public land for there own use.....we MUST NOT cut it down... we have to play by the rules on this....maybe even get the local paper involved to make it known we play by the rules & so should everyone else.