4wd trials vehicle safety systems

[IcedJohnno]

Taken from July 7th & 8th

[quote="Furgus

It could have turned out very nasty indeed - the worst bit was that I was stupid enough to stick my arm out & it got caught between the roll cage & the mud (I know it was a really F*^%ING STOOPID thing to do & I should have known better but sh*t happens ) & yes the truck was sinking deeper & it was getting tricky to breathe

The arm is OK if a little bruised & yes I did jump back in the truck & finish the day - came 4th overall - not bad for only my 2nd outing [/quote]



Fergus, you are a very lucky man.
I have to say that what you have done has given me the shits about this sport for several years since I badly dislocated my shoulder in a similar incident in a different field of motorsport. Six months off work and still suffering now three years later. My shoulder will never get a full range of motion and I will get arthritis later in life.
I was lucky too. This happened about the same time a guy lost his hand during a 4wd trial nr Chch. As I understand it he had his hand on the roll cage, as lots do, and the rig landed on his wrist.

My point here is that arm restraints like the speedway drivers use, or window nets like a lot of differing motorsport now use, would stop this type of problem. Yes these devices may be uncomfortable, or costly but what is the cost of a lifetime of pain or handicap?
Why do the trials 4wd scene not use these restraints?

I have spoken to one local team who compete nationally at this sport and the prevalent attitude seems to, it won’t happen to me. Your accident has just re-proved that it does happen.

I'm not trying to put the kybosh on good motorsport nor make it prohibitively expensive. Rather I wish to raise awareness to both potentially very serious health issues, and to allow the real inventive kiwi style motorsport to continue without the likes of the Queenstown motor-race police involvement and prosecutions that WILL follow serious accidents. We had the police trying to get involved in the event where my roll & dislocation happened.

What do others think?

Regards & good luck for your arm Furgus
John Newell

[Ryan]

i was involved in speedway for a few years and i agree arm restraints and window nets are worth there weight in gold.......i would have thought national level type events would have that type of safty stuff compulsery??

[lilpigzuk]

Arm restraints may limit movement or get in the way when trying too use fiddle brakes?? I know the two rolls Ive had too my right hand side and a couple of near rolls, natural reaction is too put my arm out too stop me Each time Ive had a split second too evaluate the situation (realise out farkin stupid an idea it is) and bring arm back in.
Tough call. I guess if it was a concern they would of brought it in years ago

[Furgus]

The flip side of arm restraints & window mesh is that it makes it harder to get out of the truck if it's underwater - you don't get that in speedway!!

There is a l;ot more to it than that of course - ease of movement to get to locker switches, fiddle brakes & gear shifter also plays a part.

& by the way - the arm is all good ........ just a good bruise to show off!!

[Ryan]

im not saying they should be there...but it is a natural reaction to put an arm out....just hope when i tip the zuk the window is closed and doesnt break!! haha
good to here you got away with only a bruise fergus

[Dr_PC]

I was involved with speedway for around 20 years and when I first started 4 wheeling around 6 years ago I couldnt understand why arm restraints/nets were not use as I do would put my hand / arm out to push the vehicle back. After a couple of years it finally got through to me to keep my hands on the wheel. The national rules state that we must have 2 hand grips for both driver nad navi so they are in place but my navi holds his belts in a crossover method if he thinks we are going to go over and I'm usally to busy trying to drive out to even think about letting go the wheel.

As Furgus has mentioned in speedwy we never had water to contend with either. Yes I have seen arms / wrists crushed before nets were brough in and you bet I dont want it to happen to me either, but I surely dont want to have to fit them to my vehcile as they will reduce vision, they will reduce reach for the classes running skid brakes etc

[skid]

you'll find that most of the guys that trial will all say that they have something to hold on to, or they need to reach stuff, like lockers and wheel brakes etc. Theres also the fact that in most cases you need to hug one side of the course and to do that you need to stick your head outside the confines of the cage to see where the pegs are. A net would inhibit that alot.

I personally grab the wheel as a driver or if you have one hand on a wheel brake, then you hold that and the wheel.

As a competitor that has navigated in many different vehicles, I always sit in the seat and make myself comfortable and then work out what I'm going to hold on to when we roll. Some trucks I have been in have had no hand grips, but as Dr_PC said you can hold your harness in a crossover fashion or I have found you can usually hold on to the bottom of the seat, which works well as your are pulling yourself down at the same time.

I too have seen many people put an arm or a leg out, but I personally make sure that all my body parts stay in. You can say its a natural reaction, but my natural reaction is to stay as still as possible within the vehicle. In my 10 odd years as a competitor and official, I have never seen any one break an arm or leg coz it was crushed by a rollcage.

anyway thats my 7c worth(inflations a bitch) and you can take it as you like.

SKID

:cheers:

[meatc]

I'm with Skid. Change those reactions.

You will never rid motorsport or most sport of injury. Ive broken bones land windsurfing, mountain biking, sailing, playing in the school gym. Ive also ripped ligments windsurfing and sailing. and they say water is soft. (yeahyeah accident prone )

Motor sport is dangerous but would rather hurt my arm than drown cause i couldnt reach the net to get out.

We play a dangerous game and he who dies with most scars wins

[dvszuk]

i agree with skid about arm restraints and nets would restrict your movment and vision. I have been competing in trials at a club level as both driver and navigator for 4 years now and have been in many desent roll overs and so far my hands havn't come off the O- shit bar or the steering wheel yet. Everyone that competes in trials nows the risks and if they would feel safer using restraints or nets then they can feel free to do so. Just my 2c

[tallsam66]

Seems to me..its a case of "it wont happen to me"

Ive had 2 friends killed in motor racing & trust me its not nice.
1 was a spectator & the other a competitor.

Sooner or later someone will be seriously killed in a rollover whilst trailing etc.
When a vehicle flips or rolls at speed as can easily happen if on a hill the centripital force will fling limbs etc out of a rolling vehicle....its just a matter of when it happens...NOT IF.

[callum007]

ive stuck my arm out while rolling into a deep bog, navi yelled at me to bring it in.. then he undid my seat belt as i was under the mud..

id be saying use nets if you want.. if you dont, then its your own call.. after 2 or 3 rolls you get the hang of holding on.. or have a couple of drinks before the rally.. slows your reactions. then you just dont care..
works for me.

[dvszuk]

Seems to me..its a case of "it wont happen to me"

Ive had 2 friends killed in motor racing & trust me its not nice.
1 was a spectator & the other a competitor.

Sooner or later someone will be seriously killed in a rollover whilst trailing etc.
When a vehicle flips or rolls at speed as can easily happen if on a hill the centripital force will fling limbs etc out of a rolling vehicle....its just a matter of when it happens...NOT IF.

I'm not saying that it wont happen to me but if or when it does i have had the chance to run with nets or restaints and signed risk forms to say that i am competing at my own risk so my club or the national body can not be held accountable.
I to have lost a mate to a motorsport accident and and had a mate parralised for life in a speedway accident and he had both arm restraints and a window net which were to no use to him in that particular incidant.

[adogg]

i`ll agree with this one mate

but as Dr_PC said you can hold your harness in a crossover fashion or I have found you can usually hold on to the bottom of the seat, which works well as your are pulling yourself down at the same time.

that bar above ya head ,in your truck fuggin hurts even with the belts pulled tight

[skid]

i`ll agree with this one mate

but as Dr_PC said you can hold your harness in a crossover fashion or I have found you can usually hold on to the bottom of the seat, which works well as your are pulling yourself down at the same time.

that bar above ya head ,in your truck fuggin hurts even with the belts pulled tight

you got any pipe. we'll cut it out and make a new one that you don't smack your head on.

[Dr_PC]

i`ll agree with this one mate

but as Dr_PC said you can hold your harness in a crossover fashion or I have found you can usually hold on to the bottom of the seat, which works well as your are pulling yourself down at the same time.

that bar above ya head ,in your truck fuggin hurts even with the belts pulled tight

Something wrong with either your belt mountings or the shape and size of your cage man. Mind you I only run 5 point so I'm always pulled down into the seat

[adogg]

im just tall and i dont use the crotch strap plus i dont have any kids yet so i dont want any injuries down there skids truck has a single diagonal from above my head to the rf corner,which will be changed in the near future,ay!!

[skid]

i`ll agree with this one mate

but as Dr_PC said you can hold your harness in a crossover fashion or I have found you can usually hold on to the bottom of the seat, which works well as your are pulling yourself down at the same time.

that bar above ya head ,in your truck fuggin hurts even with the belts pulled tight

Something wrong with either your belt mountings or the shape and size of your cage man. Mind you I only run 5 point so I'm always pulled down into the seat

I gotta agree with ya there dan. I hate getting in a truk that only has 4 point belts. 5 point is so much better like you say, coz they keep you in tight. all these macho blokes that reckon its gonna crush thier nuts, probably don't have any to begin with. theres nothing worse than looking at a nasty hazard and pulling your belts tight only to have them ride up your stomach coz nothing is holding them down.

NOTICE TO ALL COMPETING PERSONS



IF YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED A 5 POINT HARNESS. DO IT. YOU WILL NEVER LOOK BACK. THEY HOLD YOU IN THE SEAT SO MUCH MORE SECURE THAN A 4 POINT HARNESS.

:cheers: :cheers:

[Dr_PC]

I gotta agree with ya there dan. I hate getting in a truk that only has 4 point belts. 5 point is so much better like you say, coz they keep you in tight. all these macho blokes that reckon its gonna crush thier nuts, probably don't have any to begin with. theres nothing worse than looking at a nasty hazard and pulling your belts tight only to have them ride up your stomach coz nothing is holding them down.

NOTICE TO ALL COMPETING PERSONS



IF YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED A 5 POINT HARNESS. DO IT. YOU WILL NEVER LOOK BACK. THEY HOLD YOU IN THE SEAT SO MUCH MORE SECURE THAN A 4 POINT HARNESS.

:cheers: :cheers: [/quote]

Geez Skid
Come on you been on a diet... How do they ride up over that

Biggest complaint that I have heard from guys running 4 point is that 5 points take to long to put on. Oh and the other one is that 3 inch wide belts are to wide and rub on there necks. Roll real quick real fast (speedway) you NEVER EVER go back to narrow belts.

BS aside Skid you hit it right on the head

[dvszuk]

i`ll agree with this one mate

but as Dr_PC said you can hold your harness in a crossover fashion or I have found you can usually hold on to the bottom of the seat, which works well as your are pulling yourself down at the same time.

that bar above ya head ,in your truck fuggin hurts even with the belts pulled tight

Something wrong with either your belt mountings or the shape and size of your cage man. Mind you I only run 5 point so I'm always pulled down into the seat

I gotta agree with ya there dan. I hate getting in a truk that only has 4 point belts. 5 point is so much better like you say, coz they keep you in tight. all these macho blokes that reckon its gonna crush thier nuts, probably don't have any to begin with. theres nothing worse than looking at a nasty hazard and pulling your belts tight only to have them ride up your stomach coz nothing is holding them down.

NOTICE TO ALL COMPETING PERSONS



IF YOU HAVE NEVER TRIED A 5 POINT HARNESS. DO IT. YOU WILL NEVER LOOK BACK. THEY HOLD YOU IN THE SEAT SO MUCH MORE SECURE THAN A 4 POINT HARNESS.

:cheers: :cheers:

I have always wondered this but keeped geting told that it crushers your nuts when you rolled end over end.
Guna find my fith strap and put it on in the weekend to give it a try this coming round of club champs. Thanks skid.

[Dr_PC]

I have always wondered this but keeped geting told that it crushers your nuts when you rolled end over end.
Guna find my fith strap and put it on in the weekend to give it a try this coming round of club champs. Thanks skid. [/quote]

If they get crushed either you're one hell of a skite OR they're not adjusted properly, without knowing you I'd say probably the later. Basically belts adjusted correctly and tight, you cant rock forward and you cant lift yourself up in the seat