Offroad-Express

Today the NZFWDA has had the following email from Ken McAdam re Body lifts. I see this as an important email and one you should all know.

Wording out of WOF news

"Raised suspension

You may have noticed a growing trend to raise vehicles. This is sometimes done by fitting a suspension or body lift kit.

These types of modifications must be LVV certified.
These modifications may affect the stability of a vehicle by changing the centre of gravity, or they may impact on the steering system.
Steering and suspension geometry can also be adversely affected if a vehicle is raised significantly."

crikey, this could get messy

Its this sort of rubish that makes me wont to move back to QLD

Cert guys are going to be making alot of money

dumb:(


Second post to day:D

madaz068 wrote:Today the NZFWDA has had the following email from Ken McAdam re Body lifts. I see this as an important email and one you should all know.

Wording out of WOF news

"Raised suspension

You may have noticed a growing trend to raise vehicles. This is sometimes done by fitting a suspension or body lift kit.

These types of modifications must be LVV certified.
These modifications may affect the stability of a vehicle by changing the centre of gravity, or they may impact on the steering system.
Steering and suspension geometry can also be adversely affected if a vehicle is raised significantly."

My concern, as a process for monitoring, is what is significant? How would this be defined and applied consistently. My WoF may say 2" lift is not significant, other guy might say 1" is too much??? We cannot have standards that are open to interpretation by individuals trying to implement them or comply with them.

We need to be really concerned and pedantic about these vague "touchy feely" and pie in the sky kind of directives. They don't add any value to the process of ensuring safe vehicle operation on public roads.

On reflection, if this is what they want, I might be better off with two dedicated vehicles. One for on-road use (stock standard boring as car. Second for off-road use trailer queen modified to the hilt.

The issue with that is some of the competitions require vehicles to be roadworthy. So in future if I want to start competiting, I won't be able to do that. And the impracticality of maintaining an extra toy.

From my understand any lift needs to be certifed

Ken has been fighting this one for awhile now but he hasn't won. He has been fighting for small lifts eg. 2" suspension lift or 2" bodylift to not be certed if done correctly as it does not effect the vehicles stability or steering etc hugely. But as there has probably been alot of people slipping under the radar LTNZ (I think there the rule makers, please correct if im wrong) with 2" or more lifts and dodgy lifts LTNZ*? have said no ALL lifts must be certed no matter how big or small to avoid any confusion or dodgy vehicles on the road.

my .2c worth
James

TJ wrote:The issue with that is some of the competitions require vehicles to be roadworthy. So in future if I want to start competiting, I won't be able to do that. And the impracticality of maintaining an extra toy.

You will beable to compete, you just get your truck certified.

If you were to compete im sure there would be many other mods that would need to be certed anyway.

It is best to get your vehicle certified anyway (in fact its really the law) your silly not to not matter how expensive your insurance is if you crash into a brand new porsche with your body lift (uncerted) and the insurance company finds out you have an uncerted body lift your gonna be paying off that porsche for a couple of years

They sent that out a while ago but as a few people told me there is still nothing in the WOF hand book about suspension lifts. Rick is querying it. Although ALL body lifts require certs now

A notice was sent out to all garages that do WOF's apparntly saying watch out for lifted vehicles as they require certs......so now all wof places are on the lookout for us

well this sucks:(!!


3rd post to day

I'm stunned that so many people have a problem with this.

If you have a 2" susp lift and you've gotten WoF's in the past without a cert, then you should buy a Lotto ticket. Your vehicle is modified, the extent of modification is irrelevent and hence requires a cert.

To suggest LTNZ should let a 2" body and 2" susp through without a cert would never work, as while it might by within allowable parameter of a Patrol, it may not be the case for a Zuk. By applying a blanket requirement for all lifts (body and/or susp), then everyone knows where they stand and there are no grey areas.

As Doddzee has suggested, everyone has to get their lift certified in order to compete and it is pretty much the most basic modification of all mods done to comp trucks these days!

lets just chuck this out there for good measure....

How are they gonna know if ya vehicle has a lift, I have seen some where it is quite obivious, usually cause there has been 4 link systems used or have moved the spring pickups as in Falcon rear hilux conversions

but a lot that just have lifted coils or leaves and long shocks, which is usually done with bigger tyres it is hard for the layman to see the work done or the effect, especially with so many models, body styles and flares availble in every toyota,nissan etc, in import and NZ new, would be tough for the WOF guy to be sure its been modified at all

note, this theory falls down when ya splaster ya ride with all the sticker that are supplied with the gear that screams "MODIFIED"

my 2c!

so what about cranking torsion bars? it's not a suspension lift but it does raise the vehicle 2 inches

Jezza wrote:so what about cranking torsion bars? it's not a suspension lift but it does raise the vehicle 2 inches

I would say that its still considered a raise so you would need to cert it

madaz068 wrote:

Jezza wrote:so what about cranking torsion bars? it's not a suspension lift but it does raise the vehicle 2 inches

I would say that its still considered a raise so you would need to cert it

Bugger there goes $400, at least it covers my arse if I'm in a accident.
Better make the most of it and do as many mods as possible before I get it certed

doddzee wrote:

TJ wrote:The issue with that is some of the competitions require vehicles to be roadworthy. So in future if I want to start competiting, I won't be able to do that. And the impracticality of maintaining an extra toy.

You will beable to compete, you just get your truck certified.

If you were to compete im sure there would be many other mods that would need to be certed anyway.

Sure I will, but then that would not be my daily driver. More so, I do club runs with a moderate lift. Its just that paying another $400 everytime something changes is rediculous.

However, now that I am a little level headed after the initial shock. We'll just have to build that as a cost in our upgrades everytime.

DBW,
You're right. With the example you gave, I'm sure some WoF inspectors wouldn't know the truck had been lifted, but its not their responsibility to know either.

The WoF process is just an inspection (a snap-shot in time) to check the vehicle is up to scratch. Just becasue a vehicle passes a WoF does not absolve the owner from all responsibility.

It is the vehicle owner's responsibility to ensure it meets the rules set down by LTNZ, and therefore the owner's responsibility to get a cert to show it meets those rules. If you have an accident and the truck isn't certed and it was found that the mods were the cause of the accident, or contributed in some way, then your insurance is void. Simple as that. If in doubt, get it certed.

I've noted on here a number of people who admit to having a standard set of tyres and rims they use for getting WoF's, as their backspaced 10" wide beadlocked rims and 35" Simex's the truck usually wears aren't on their cert plate. Again, they're fooling themselves if they think they won't go for a skate in the event of an accident. Most will probably get away with it, but I don't see it being worth the risk.

GQTROL wrote:I'm stunned that so many people have a problem with this.

If you have a 2" susp lift and you've gotten WoF's in the past without a cert, then you should buy a Lotto ticket. Your vehicle is modified, the extent of modification is irrelevent and hence requires a cert.

Well, I do have a 2" suspension lift and it had never been asked to be certified by anyone in the past. I got my WoF through a testing station last (about a month ago) and was not asked a question! I went to them this time as I could only go on Sat and my regular shop was not open on that Sat.

My insurance is aware of this lift and has not had a problem so far. My lift was done three years ago.

TJ wrote:Well, I do have a 2" suspension lift and it had never been asked to be certified by anyone in the past. I got my WoF through a testing station last (about a month ago) and was not asked a question! I went to them this time as I could only go on Sat and my regular shop was not open on that Sat.

My insurance is aware of this lift and has not had a problem so far. My lift was done three years ago.

I'm not doubting that is the case, and in fact that is my point and also the same reason LTNZ are cleaning up their act to avoid the uncertainty surrounding the issue.

LTNZ and most insurance companies have a nice little catch phrase along the lines of "provided it does not compromise the safe operation / performance of the vehicle", or something like that. Basically it gives them an 'out' if they need it.

Ask yourself if in the event of an accident, is it really worth not paying $400 to get a cert?

GQTROL wrote:I'm not doubting that is the case, and in fact that is my point and also the same reason LTNZ are cleaning up their act to avoid the uncertainty surrounding the issue.

LTNZ and most insurance companies have a nice little catch phrase along the lines of "provided it does not compromise the safe operation / performance of the vehicle", or something like that. Basically it gives them an 'out' if they need it.

Ask yourself if in the event of an accident, is it really worth not paying $400 to get a cert?

To me its not a question of paying $400 to get a cert or not, its the principle applied by LTNZ for playing the game with consistent rules.

If LTNZ changes the basis of their rules covering suspension height changes without notifying anybody other than through the WoF newsletter, thats not fair on the people operating cars. Would you be happy with your insurance company if it changed the terms of your insurance cover without notifying you and obtaining your consent? If they could, they would deny every single claim by changing their policies left, right and centre.

We live in a free country and the expectation is that if the people with the power to change rules are changing them, then they need to let the people affected know about the possible impact. You don't do things covertly as far as rule changes are concerned.

GQTROL wrote:I'm stunned that so many people have a problem with this.

If you have a 2" susp lift and you've gotten WoF's in the past without a cert, then you should buy a Lotto ticket. Your vehicle is modified, the extent of modification is irrelevent and hence requires a cert.

To suggest LTNZ should let a 2" body and 2" susp through without a cert would never work, as while it might by within allowable parameter of a Patrol, it may not be the case for a Zuk. By applying a blanket requirement for all lifts (body and/or susp), then everyone knows where they stand and there are no grey areas.

As Doddzee has suggested, everyone has to get their lift certified in order to compete and it is pretty much the most basic modification of all mods done to comp trucks these days!

This old chestnut again. LVVA cert requirements re suspension changes... anyone read them?????????

Do i need to go and quote directly from there AGAIN about the whole "as long as factory mountings are unmodified" blah blah?

Lets see if i can find the quotes from last time around, heres one..........

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... nsion+lift

Although this thread is about body lifts (which as also been beaten to death) we again head ot the suspension lift rah rah.

Ok so WOF dudes say one thing, to one set of altered rules, yet the LVVA thresholds havent been changed, so who is supposed to do the certifying and to what criteria. certifyier has one set of rules, but is now expected to adhere to a change that doesnt have bearing on his thresholds??? HOw fuking wanky.

xj wrote:

GQTROL wrote:I'm stunned that so many people have a problem with this.

If you have a 2" susp lift and you've gotten WoF's in the past without a cert, then you should buy a Lotto ticket. Your vehicle is modified, the extent of modification is irrelevent and hence requires a cert.

To suggest LTNZ should let a 2" body and 2" susp through without a cert would never work, as while it might by within allowable parameter of a Patrol, it may not be the case for a Zuk. By applying a blanket requirement for all lifts (body and/or susp), then everyone knows where they stand and there are no grey areas.

As Doddzee has suggested, everyone has to get their lift certified in order to compete and it is pretty much the most basic modification of all mods done to comp trucks these days!

This old chestnut again. LVVA cert requirements re suspension changes... anyone read them?????????

Do i need to go and quote directly from there AGAIN about the whole "as long as factory mountings are unmodified" blah blah?

Lets see if i can find the quotes from last time around, heres one..........

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... nsion+lift

Although this thread is about body lifts (which as also been beaten to death) we again head ot the suspension lift rah rah.

Ok so WOF dudes say one thing, to one set of altered rules, yet the LVVA thresholds havent been changed, so who is supposed to do the certifying and to what criteria. certifyier has one set of rules, but is now expected to adhere to a change that doesnt have bearing on his thresholds??? HOw fuking wanky.

The comments to the NZFWDA were from a LVVTA rep

If a WOF shop fails you, ask him to show you the law that he is applying to fail you. If you disagree, then take him to task on the matter. Simple.

The word at the moment as I understand it is that a suspension lift done using factory mounts is still legal, but the way its looking its not going to be long before it will require cert. Its unlikely that this will be avoidable. The letter at the start of this thread is not legislation, its just talk... a newsletter. I must admit tho, the way its worded is pretty stupid for a newsletter since most WOF places who don't know 4WDs that well will just get it in their head they can throw everything out they don't like just because it was "in the newsletter, so it must be right".

As to the idea you only have the lift to fit your bigger tyres, well bigger tyres DO require cert anyway, so I can't see why you'd be worried about that (forget who made that comment earlier in the piece)

And as for getting 2" of lift from torsion bars - make sure you still have some out travel - most torsion bar setups will only stand around 35-40mm of lift before they become mildly unsafe due to not having enough out-travel left before they start lifting the wheel.

At the end of the day, a cert is peace of mind - although I believe they need a cert-addition tag which is significantly cheaper that allows you do make small changes, since at the moment if you change, say, your rims from 8" to 10" wide you need to have the entire vehicle re-certified.

And as previously mentioned, a WOF means nothing in an accident - the police won't care if it got one yesterday, nor will the insurance company - if your truck isn't legal then you'll be at fault if they can prove your trucks state could have possibly contributed to the accident. And what if someone is hurt, or killed?

$400, cheap peace of mind (and a good reason to do all those other little mods that you were putting off...)

My 2.25c inc. GST

Well I always go to on road for WOF.

I never have a standard truck for long!

Was at on Road 2 weeks ago with my 2-1/2" - 3" suspension lifted Disco with cut guards aftermarket c-bars 33 13.5 15" tyres cut up bumper bla bla bla

NO CIRT NEEDED!! there only gripe was it not fitting on the brake machine as it was to wide so they thought it MAY need a cirt as the track has been winded buy 70+mm .. So I went home put the standard wheels on & got the sticker !!!

My surf had 2" suspension lift never had issues with that!. just took the body lift out for wof time hehehe.. & when it got cirted for sale no mention of suspension lift on the cirt !!!

I know this is thred jacking but how far dose this safty cert rubish go? Do I need a cert for say an after market or home made winch bar?
I have also changed the seats in my truck,how about that?
I dont quite undrestand the system. Do i need to cert each mod inderviduley or can i do all my mods and get it all on the one cert plate?
I think LTNZ should get there act together on this isue and overhall the system so that the rules are black and white and not open to inderviduel intrepratation. As everyone keeps saying, we are the ones that will get screwed over in an accident, not LTNZ because of there unclear rules.
I know we have to do it but it is very frastrating to have to pay $400 for a small plate and get told that we have done a good job of the mods on our trucks.

doby wrote:I know this is thred jacking but how far dose this safty cert rubish go? Do I need a cert for say an after market or home made winch bar?
I have also changed the seats in my truck,how about that?
I dont quite undrestand the system. Do i need to cert each mod inderviduley or can i do all my mods and get it all on the one cert plate?
I think LTNZ should get there act together on this isue and overhall the system so that the rules are black and white and not open to inderviduel intrepratation. As everyone keeps saying, we are the ones that will get screwed over in an accident, not LTNZ because of there unclear rules.
I know we have to do it but it is very frastrating to have to pay $400 for a small plate and get told that we have done a good job of the mods on our trucks.

What you have listed dont need cirt !!!

But if in doubt go see a cirt guy, he will put ya right!
& all modz go on 1 cirt as long as they have been done at time of cirt