Offroad-Express

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:52 pm**

Anyone know if this was someone on here?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4284292a10.html

Ranger accused of callous treatment of injured teen

The parents of an Invercargill man seriously hurt in a crash last weekend are angry at the response they say a Department of Conservation ranger gave when he was asked to get emergency help.

Adrian Cope, 19, was a front-seat passenger in one of two four-wheel-drive vehicles being driven around Mavora Lakes on Saturday.

He ended up with serious neck injuries after the vehicle he was in rolled during an attempt to drive it up a hill.

Mr Cope managed to get out of the vehicle but felt pain in his neck as he was walking around.

Mr Cope and his friend Tim Herrick left their friends at the scene and drove in the second vehicle to a nearby Department of Conservation ranger for help.

It took about 20 minutes driving slowly on bumpy terrain to reach the ranger's caravan, where he asked for help, Mr Herrick said.

Mr Herrick said he told the ranger the truck had rolled and asked whether he had any way of contacting emergency services to get help for his friend, Mr Cope.

"Before he was going to do it he (the ranger) said he wanted to know where we were so to the best of my knowledge I explained.

"... he said that he knew the exact hill and that no one's supposed to go up it.

"He went on to say that anything that's wrong with Adrian is his own doing, his fault. I asked him again 'are you going to contact a helicopter or an ambulance?' and he said 'I don't know why I should'."

The pair left the ranger and drove over bumpy terrain for a further 20 minutes to get cellphone coverage to call for help themselves.

They rang a medic at Te Anau, and were told the ranger had already called, and that a helicopter was on its way.

Mr Cope was admitted to Southland Hospital and a CAT scan revealed his sixth vertebrae had broken into three pieces.

Mr Cope's mother Heather said their concern was because they did not know whether the ranger had called for help, her son's injury could have been made worse by continuing to travel in the truck.

She has laid a complaint with DOC and she hoped the ranger would apologise for his actions and that DOC would look at fencing off or sign-posting the area where the incident occured.

"It could have been life or death," Mr Cope's father Terry said.

DOC area manager Reg Kemper said he had spoken to Mrs Cope and was investigating the allegations of inappropriate behaviour.

The ranger had initiated a 111 call through the DOC radio system at the request of Mr Cope and Mr Herrick, Mr Kemper said.

It may have been inappropriate vehicle use that caused the accident but that had not been confirmed and police were investigating, he said.

"We do think it's a most unfortunate incident and we do wish Mr Cope a very speedy recovery." Mr Cope is expected to be released from hospital this week and will spend 12w eeks in a neck brace.

It is not known yet whether he will make a full recovery.

Te Anau Police yesterday confirmed they are investigating the crash.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:23 pm**

Yet another Twat going off track.

The Ranger up there can be a bit difficult and I can just hear him saying that

He is more than happy with organised clubs and runs, and is well aware of who (types of people) go off track.

In pubic places stick to the track people.... If you want to have a play, do it on private property!

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:52 pm**

NJV6 wrote:Yet another Twat going off track.

The Ranger up there can be a bit difficult and I can just hear him saying that

He is more than happy with organised clubs and runs, and is well aware of who (types of people) go off track.

In pubic places stick to the track people.... If you want to have a play, do it on private property!

The guy going off road MAY of been a twat as you say..but the Ranger was way out of line.He was obviously more concerned about a few tussocks plants being squashed than some guy with a broken neck.
He needs a serious repremand..his attitude & behavior was totally out of line.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:05 pm**

Yup, I agree with you there tallsam66.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:15 pm**

if the driver hadve been the one seeking attention, then maybe a certain amount of disdain may have been apt, but attention should still have been prompt. However, this kid was the passenger, and on the face of it, therefore a victim of his mates shithouse driving. Dude should have pulled his head in and busted arse to get help. Then taken isuue with the driver later, if necessary at all.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:18 pm**

Didn't say he wasn't. :wink:

What would have been more appropriate for him was to call the chopper THEN do his blah blah spiel.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:20 pm**

Cheers XJ, beat me to it.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:25 pm**

Take the "DoC Ranger" part out of it and the guy was just being a dickhead by being obstructive and difficult about gaining medical assistance for an injured person

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:34 pm**

xj wrote: therefore a victim of his mates shithouse driving.

Woah there dude, maybee you are right, but we dont know the full story behind how it rolled or the drivers experteese, do we?

Or am I missing something?

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:43 pm**

Whether the injured person or his driver was being a twat or whatever is totally irrelivant.
The DOC Ranger was possibly negligent in his job.A big part of a rangers job is to assist the public ie search & rescue etc.
It could be said that if the injured person was further injured by having to drive the extra distance as the DOC worker refused to render assistance.He could be taken to court as a deliberate action on his part (ie he delibrately did nothing....do nothing is an action) caused the person to become sustain further injuries.

**Edited for Spelling**

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:47 pm**

kiwipete wrote:
xj wrote: therefore a victim of his mates shithouse driving.

Woah there dude, maybee you are right, but we dont know the full story behind how it rolled or the drivers experteese, do we?

Or am I missing something?

WOAH NELLY WOAH.... (trying to "woah"

Was he somewhere that he ought not ot have been, according to the initial post, yes......... perhaps i ought to have said "his shithouse decision making" then. shithouse decision making whilst driving a vehicle = shithouse driving. in my opinion anyway. (exemplified by the "apparent" "fact" that someone was injured.)

Hell, we dont know ANY of the story aside from whats been posted here.... it all might be crap yeah?

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:51 pm**

It's pretty piss poor when someone with a suspected broken neck is given a hard time regardless if he was in the right or wrong. So he might have been off the track, atleast he was dumping tonnes of poison around the country side. That DOC guy was just being a bloody pain in the neck :lol:

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:52 pm**

....according to to the media report

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:29 pm**

Sadam_Husain wrote:Take the "DoC Ranger" part out of it and the guy was just being a dickhead by being obstructive and difficult about gaining medical assistance for an injured person

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:35 pm**

Sadam_Husain wrote:Take the "DoC Ranger" part out of it and the guy was just being a dickhead by being obstructive and difficult about gaining medical assistance for an injured person

My thoughts exactly,if some one is hurt that must be a priority. the telling off etc can come later.

tallsam66

Whether the injured person or his driver was being a twat or whatever is totally irrelivant.
The DOC Ranger was possibly negligent in his job.A big part of a rangers job is to assist the public ie search & rescue etc.
It could be said that if the injured person was further injured by having to drive the extra distance as the DOC worker refused to render assistance.He could be taken to court as a deliberate action on his part (ie he delibrately did nothing....do nothing is an action) caused the person to become sustain further injuries.

Somthing needs to happen ... It will be interesting to see if any thing does.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:45 pm**

[/quote]
Somthing needs to happen ... It will be interesting to see if any thing does.[/quote]

Nothing will happen...think back....DOC built a platform in a shoddy & unsafe manner 14 (i think ) people were killed & nothing happened...do you really think anything will happen to this clown....i personally doubt it very much.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:57 pm**

tallsam66 wrote:Whether the injured person or his driver was being a twat or whatever is totally irrelivant.
The DOC Ranger was possibly negligent in his job.A big part of a rangers job is to assist the public ie search & rescue etc.
It could be said that if the injured person was further injured by having to drive the extra distance as the DOC worker refused to render assistance.He could be taken to court as a deliberate action on his part (ie he delibrately did nothing....do nothing is an action) caused the person to become sustain further injuries.

Hang on - according to the report he DID actually phone in the chopper.

Read the damn thing before you damn people.

As far as I'm concerned the DoC guy only did 2 things wrong
1. gave them grief before radioing for help
2. didn't tell them he'd actually called for help

If the guy was walking around & was OK to drive 20min to the ranger station then any further damage was unlikely. In the report they say the sixth vertebrae - one is not sure whether they mean cervical or thoracic - nor the type of fracture ie could have been an avulsion fracture of the spinous process of C6 (clay shoveler's fracture) which occurs due to rotation of trunk to neck & has no neurological deficit.

If I was that DoC guy I probably would have given them heaps of shit to.

I'm sick of idiots ripping up the place & making it hard for the rest of us "good guys" us to find places to go.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:04 pm**

Actually Tallsam thats not right - after that major accident every little bridge, every platform throughout the country was inspected and got load ratings put on them. Yes that was a tragedy and thankfully there hasn't been anything like it again.

And structures were closed for months until signs were made and was a right pain in the butt. What do you suggest should have happened after that event?

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:14 pm**

Probably get shot to bits for this, but my wee piece..............
I wasn't there and don't presume to know what went on or why,
and as such do not condemn anyone.
People act differently when faced with an emergency.......

We are only getting part of the story and that part is being reported by the media. :roll:

who love a story( they have a paper to sell), and often get the facts a bit mixed up ( have been involved when supposed facts have been totally wrong and blown out of all proportion).

In situations like this there is a lot of emotion involved.........ie,

The guys in the truck- have just been in an accident,someone is injured, (PANIC), adrenaline high, very high probabilty of being a bit worked up , want immediate response from everyone , even higher probabilty of not willing to listen.

The ranger, happily out in the bush minding his own business, ( won't go into what I think of DOC, ps. I'm not a greenie), but here is this guy doing his job.........

Two agitated , panicking people bowl up to his door demanding he ring the Chopper ( which he did at some stage ) , not prepared for an incident such as this, out of his comfort zone, he falls into auto mode, things he deals with all the time, hence wanting to know where they had been, what happened etc,........ his supposed remarks ( he is human and allowed to make mistakes )..........

With all the heat from emotions running high......understandably at times such as this ..............no one in control ........I'm pretty sure not everyone, especially the average person taken off guard keeps a level head in an emergency......... things obviously didn't get handled as they should, but don't condemn anyone............ we weren't there

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:57 pm**

NJV6 wrote:Actually Tallsam thats not right - after that major accident every little bridge, every platform throughout the country was inspected and got load ratings put on them. Yes that was a tragedy and thankfully there hasn't been anything like it again.

And structures were closed for months until signs were made and was a right pain in the butt. What do you suggest should have happened after that event?

NO..i am right....nobody was sent to prison or even fired for the cave creek cockup..the Minister didnt resign...squat happened....Yes they did go around & check other structures were ok....but still nobody was held personally sponsible for that cockup.

Posted: **Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:04 pm**

[quote="Furgus
Hang on - according to the report he DID actually phone in the chopper.
[/quote]

Yes he called the emergency services...but not while the injuried were with him...he didnt tell them he was going to call them..so they set off to get help as he refused to help them.
The fact he called them after he left is irrelivant...his immediate inaction caused them to travel to seek help themselves & potentially put him at added risk.
I suspect he may of called after they had left as he realised he has screwed up bigtime.

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:28 am**

hillfilly wrote:Probably get shot to bits for this, but my wee piece..............
I wasn't there and don't presume to know what went on or why,
and as such do not condemn anyone.
People act differently when faced with an emergency.......

We are only getting part of the story and that part is being reported by the media. who love a story( they have a paper to sell), and often get the facts a bit mixed up ( have been involved when supposed facts have been totally wrong and blown out of all proportion).

In situations like this there is a lot of emotion involved.........ie,

The guys in the truck- have just been in an accident,someone is injured, (PANIC), adrenaline high, very high probabilty of being a bit worked up , want immediate response from everyone , even higher probabilty of not willing to listen.

The ranger, happily out in the bush minding his own business, ( won't go into what I think of DOC, ps. I'm not a greenie), but here is this guy doing his job.........

Two agitated , panicking people bowl up to his door (someone WALKS up to you and says they need a chopper..... I'd be a tad sceptical) demanding he ring the Chopper ( which he did at some stage ) , not prepared for an incident such as this, out of his comfort zone, he falls into auto mode, things he deals with all the time, hence wanting to know where they had been, what happened etc,........ his supposed remarks ( he is human and allowed to make mistakes )..........

With all the heat from emotions running high......understandably at times such as this ..............no one in control ........I'm pretty sure not everyone, especially the average person taken off guard keeps a level head in an emergency......... things obviously didn't get handled as they should, but don't condemn anyone............ we weren't there

Oh thank the Lord for the voice of reason......

Well reasoned, balanced, and able to see through media hype. My type of lass. Well done !! (And you're a girl and all!!

)

Are you single?....... :lol:

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:18 pm**

i am a close friend of the driver and all the boys involved. infact i was asked to go on that trip with them but having done this trip several other time i really didnt want to.

The part of the track where the rollover took place is a clear spot that everyone attempts to take their truck up, there is a track going up that hill and it has been like that for years!
If the DOC ranger who is very protective thought that the hill was getting to damaged etc he should have roped it off like ive seen done many times before!! (on different tracks)
It was unfortunate that my mate had tried cos its steep however he did.
He is no "TWAT" he was simply driving on a very obvious track! just like the hill everybody tries up at boundary hut.its not on the track but there is a track going up and back down an has been like that for years aswell.

The fact of the matter is whether they should have been there or not does not matter. Somebody was seriously injured and when asked to call for assistance he did not!! causing them to drive that long windy gravel road out to cellphone reception!!! That is not good enough.

The DIC sorry DOC ranger got the shits and rung but it is shit box and he should be sacked!! he obviously gives a shit more about abit mud than human life.

If boyracers are dragging down the street and crash people ring for help straight away dont they?they dont make them get up walk around get back into another car, after being told off and drive to a hospital where they find out they have serious injuries!

i think a smashed vertibre is far more important than a flatened fern!

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT AND HELP SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED ASAP!!

And the fact the ranger would not let the his parents pick the truck up the next day without a fight is bullshit.It is not DOC's property and they had every right to go in and pick it up!!

:evil:

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:39 pm**

Engineer wrote:IT WAS AN ACCIDENT

NO it was not an ACCIDENT it was an INCIDENT.

Accident implies no-one was to blame - you cannot roll your truck without being to blame.

caveat - if track gives way unexpectedly into a mine/sinkhole causing the truck to roll then this would be an accident.

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:48 pm**

you get half way up a steep bank, you gotta come back down backwards yes? now the rut that he fell into flung the front of the truck around so its sitting sideways (on a steep hill)and then caused the truck to roll i think is an accident.
Im not saying he magically ended up rolling down a hill for no apparent reason mate.

You ask the truck load of boys that were watching their mates roll over and over and over and over again if that was an accident or incident ok!

acÂ·ciÂ·dent (Äƒk'sÄ-dÉ™nt, -dÄ•nt')
n.
An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm

Ryan

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:54 pm**

Obviously the message isn't getting through regarding sticking to tracks.

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:57 pm**

I'm with Hillifilly.

They DOC guy prob missed the part about one of those present being injured and thought he was still down the road.

He was then prob attempting to get the information that emergency services are going to want before responding. (It takes a lot to get a chopper sent to anything)

And as Hillifilly said Communication goes out the window. I have dealt with it in my job and what appears to the victim to be a slack response is the helper (for want of a better word) trying to do the best they can ina situation that is way over their head.

If the DOC guy was an arrogant arse and it played out as it reads he should be accountable BUT if a inquiry shows it could have been handled differently by BOTH parties at the DOC hut then leave the guy alone.

The inital cause has nothing to do with it. Person before property every time

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:53 pm**

Engineer wrote:you get half way up a steep bank, you gotta come back down backwards yes? now the rut that he fell into flung the front of the truck around so its sitting sideways (on a steep hill)and then caused the truck to roll i think is an accident.

If he hadn't been driving up that hill in that manner then he would NOT Have ROLLED - it was the drivers fault 100% it was not an act of god (or whatever else you want) therefore it was an incident not an accident. YES it's a question of semantics BUT talk to anyone involved in mopping up after such incidents & they will tell you there is always a cause - things DO NOT happen spontaneously.

A few years ago there was a major push by the police/paramedics/firemen to get rid of the phrase road traffic accidents (RTA's) for this exact reason.

I have done dumb stuff - I have rolled my truck - I have crashed a car - none of them were accidents - they were my fault.

At no point have I said the DOC guy was blameless but I can see his POV open your eyes & take the blinkers off & maybe you will too.

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:01 pm**

Furgus wrote:At no point have I said the DOC guy was blameless but I can see his POV open your eyes & take the blinkers off & maybe you will too.

The point really is not what you call it but the fact that someone was hurt and the response from the DOC could have been better.

Who would not help someone that is hurt and worry about pointing the finger of blame afterwards ???

Posted: **Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:07 pm**

I guess I'll stay neutral on this one, I can see where the DOC worker was probably pi$$ed off, and may not have realised the full seriousness of the situation, and at the same time, I know there are a lot of people out there that drive "side tracks" that are obviosly not part of the normal track.

I have done it before, there are a lot of tracks out there where sidetracks etc are a lot of fun, and it may seem innocent to drive them as they are well worn.

At the end of the day, without being there to see what happened, for all I know, these guys knew they were in the wrong area and are trying to cover their butts, or the DOC guy did the completely wrong thing (although he did ring emergency services).

Either way, I hope this guy makes a full recovery.

Offroad-Express

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