Using Tyres

[Bulletproof]

Generally on fun trials and the like the little Suzukis do very well on this type of tyre.

Over the last few days I have talked about the mud and radial tyres.
I have made comments about extremely low pressures and the superior performance of Silverstone ,simex type tyres. Before a person rushes out and buys new tyres we need to have balanced view. I have 4 sets of tyres, simexs and radials and 9 trips out of 10 stick with the Radials. They are safer on the road and once let down to 18-20 lbs reasonally capable off road. I cant see the point in driving an hour on the road just to have a superior edge in one bog hole. I have diff locks, modified suspenion and a good winch so still cant really get stuck any more than the people on the simexs. I like to drive straight home with out having to blow the tyres up. I trade the radials when about a one third worn and buy new ones.

Last christmas we spent 5 days doing the tough tracks at Westport. Tailings to costello hill both ways for the first time, Moa bones, No 6, and the precipice, a very steep bank that no one else has ever driven unassisted. Andi Delis had the handbag there [ more like a trials truck] wih new 35 simexs on. I was running my 35 BFGs and after 5 days he had the edge over me but there wasnt alot in it.
He got up 2 banks I couldn't and I got up one he couldn't, but I had the pleasure of driving on the road.

Bulletproof

[wopass]

with regards to triple block centipedes VS double block centipedes see link to vid

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg19 ... V06212.flv

[Bulletproof]

Good bit of video.
In this situation you have alot of power and are driving them more as a radial and if you had the 2 block they would only dig holes where 3 blocks stay on top and the side lugs clear through spinning.

Most people dont have the power to spin big simexs like this and are better with the 2 block in my opinion, not to say that my opinion is always right.

Bulletproof

with regards to triple block centipedes VS double block centipedes see link to vid

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg19 ... V06212.flv

[Bubba]

Sorry to show my ignorance again (I have a lot of it in reserve)

Thanks for your explanation, very clear and simple

You talk about dedicated tyres pushing the mud out the side and having the need for power when using 'normal' radial tyes.

If you let your Simex, Centipede etc right down wouldn't the tyre take on 'W' shape and stop the mud from being pushed out the side

[Bulletproof]

This raises another issue and this wheel width.

I can see a 'W' happening if your tyre width is too wide. I personally do not believe in wide rims. A lot of people I know run 12.5 inch tyres on 7 inch rims for offroading , not that this road legal so dont say I am telling you to it.
When we are talking about these very low pressures we are only talking about competition or extreme situations and not on road use.
I personally have had no trouble on narrow rims and they do clear better but dont have the image of wide ones. Andi Delis says 'image is everything".

Bulletproof

Sorry to show my ignorance again (I have a lot of it in reserve)

Thanks for your explanation, very clear and simple

You talk about dedicated tyres pushing the mud out the side and having the need for power when using 'normal' radial tyes.

If you let your Simex, Centipede etc right down wouldn't the tyre take on 'W' shape and stop the mud from being pushed out the side

[scs]

Wealth of information here, personally I stick to radials as I don't do a hell of alot of "cheque book" 4wd`n. I like being able to use the radias to drive any amount of time to where I need to go comfortably, then have reasonable performance off road.(kl71) Personally haven't tried simex, silverstones etc but I'll give em a crack one day.

[Bulletproof]

I would like to clarify a couple of words I said. " the superiority of the simex type tyres "
This is only partly true. It only is true regarding mud ,bogs, clay and wet grass.

One of the most challenging forms of 4 wheel driving is the crossings of the huge rivers that come from the main divide such as Waimak ,Rakaia etc .These rivers are filled with water logged gravels and quick-sand and carrying hundreds of cumecs of water. Remember the army lost a uimog in the Waimak.

With this form of 4 wheel driving dont consider any cross ply tyre at all ,because it could cost you your life.

A wide radial running a low pressure is the only option.

Bulletproof

[nstg8a]

Wealth of information here, personally I stick to radials as I don't do a hell of alot of "cheque book" 4wd`n. I like being able to use the radias to drive any amount of time to where I need to go comfortably, then have reasonable performance off road.(kl71) Personally haven't tried simex, silverstones etc but I'll give em a crack one day.

im exactly the same, i dnt think il ever get to the point where i can justify a couple of grand worth of tyres for the 4wding i do.


with bulletproofs post about the siex type tyre in the rivers, are they bad because they dig to much? so increasing the likelyhood of getting caught in a hole?

or is because the radials having a wider footprint sit better?

[albundy]

with bulletproofs post about the siex type tyre in the rivers, are they bad because they dig to much? so increasing the likelyhood of getting caught in a hole?

or is because the radials having a wider footprint sit better?

Wealth of information here, personally I stick to radials as I don't do a hell of alot of "cheque book" 4wd`n. I like being able to use the radias to drive any amount of time to where I need to go comfortably, then have reasonable performance off road.(kl71) Personally haven't tried simex, silverstones etc but I'll give em a crack one day.

im exactly the same, i dnt think il ever get to the point where i can justify a couple of grand worth of tyres for the 4wding i do.


with bulletproofs post about the siex type tyre in the rivers, are they bad because they dig to much? so increasing the likelyhood of getting caught in a hole?

or is because the radials having a wider footprint sit better?

Both, but they really dig big deep holes.
Al

[rokhound]

Radials are definitely much better on pea gravel etc, although as long as you know how not to use a loud pedal, and pressures are right, crossplys can do the job.
We have also found that in climbing around on Sth Island rocks, that some radials are very good, and others are crap. And the same with crossplys. BFG mud terrains and the Goodyear MTRs are both good on rocks when bagged out, the Kumhos that we have seen are crap. Swampers are nice and sticky as well, but Simexs are crap. I think it is all about the tyre compound the manufacturers use. The compounds have to be fairly soft, or sticky if you like, to cope with being wet and then hang onto rocks that get very slippery when wet.
The major trade off for the crossply tyres is longevity. (Simexs seem top last much longer than Swampers) This seems to be much less of a problem with the radials (we all know someone who has got major mileage from BFG's don't we?)

[tpft]

why is it, that they dig holes, rather then make forward motion?
sure in a wheel spin situation a less agressive tyre is going to take longer to dig a hole, it is also more likely to get stuck in first place.

i know in sand, many people think a less agressive tyre is going too not dig in as much etc. how come anything to do with sand racing always runs a massive paddle tyre then?
in the bike world anyway, roost equals motion

i have a fair bit to do with atv,s and tyres, mainly farm bikes, i,ve always wondered why such a contrast as to what cockies
want in a tyre in general farming condtions as to what is available to 4x4,ers.

only time i think roost doesnt equal motion is when there is a restriction at front of the vechile i.e lots of built up mud and then any tyre is not going to work either?
a good atv tyre will rip the ground to shreds just turning around, not good for greenies for sure, but must be good for motion????
less air just equals wider footprint, as for the tread going into W or whatever, mud isn,t flat, as long as max contact
then can,t see it mattering.
plus in 4x4 world lets face it, usually 100 other trucks have turned the bog to squish before we get there.

just my dribbling

[Bulletproof]

Radials are definitely much better on pea gravel etc, although as long as you know how not to use a loud pedal, and pressures are right, crossplys can do the job.
We have also found that in climbing around on Sth Island rocks, that some radials are very good, and others are crap. And the same with crossplys. BFG mud terrains and the Goodyear MTRs are both good on rocks when bagged out, the Kumhos that we have seen are crap. Swampers are nice and sticky as well, but Simexs are crap. I think it is all about the tyre compound the manufacturers use. The compounds have to be fairly soft, or sticky if you like, to cope with being wet and then hang onto rocks that get very slippery when wet.
The major trade off for the crossply tyres is longevity. (Simexs seem top last much longer than Swampers) This seems to be much less of a problem with the radials (we all know someone who has got major mileage from BFG's don't we?)

You are right compound does differ from brand to brand. I'm not getting into a brand argument but silverstone is a lot softer than a simex. Other brands are softer than BFGs.
So why do I run simexs and BFGS?
Quite simply these other brands are not true sizes . When I buy a 35 I dont want a 34 because it does't matter what compound you have or how much power you have, if the wheels are not touching the ground you are not going anywhere.
I have 300mm under the diffs which is a huge advangage over someone with less. I can let my tyres right down and still have as much clearance as the other brands with full pressure.
The BFGs also have an extra ply which means they more punishment.
Bulletproof

[86-surf]

don't meen to take this offtopic but does any one know if these tires are any good??.http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 559790.htm.

reason for wanting to know is my tires are a bit warn and want some new ones...

[Weemsy]

hey jase, check out this thread, they talk about cooper stt's on here
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11285
weemsy