Problem with the Lemon

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:34 am

Just an idea I have had to increase the height of the drive shaft My neffew used to do stock car racing and he described a diff what looks a bit like this. the drawing, of course, is only the drive components.

the diff faces backwards and is connected to the top shaft by gears, this arrangement, of course, reverses the drive direction. Would this work for your problem, Reece?

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:09 am

Thats not a bad idea at all.... I'd have to change my suspension linkages, spread them apart ontop of the diff so the driveshaft could fit through... rotating the diff would still give me resumble ground clearance as it would move the standard pinion into a high pinion position.... the portal box is still gona cost a bit to setup but if I'm only working two gears I could do it using standard transfer case parts hmmm also since space isn't so much of an issue I could build the gear to bolt to the drive flange off the pinion meaning I could build the gear

saving me $800 :shock:

Class room time :lol:

This has a big advantage in that the diff is still spinning clockwise meaning no change in strength of the diff

if I was to do this off the end of the transfer case with a 2 gear step down (spin the drive shaft in reverse) I'd have to turn the diff upside down in the housing to spin it counter clockwise this loading on a standard diff gear (due to the cut of the teeth) couses the pinion to try and ride up on the teeth of the crown wheel under high torgue giving less tooth engagement and a better chance of failure

Remember T's post about the front diff :wink:

Hmmmm

thanks for that Bob definitly something to think about....

Cheers Reece

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:15 am

NOW!! If you did it to BOTH front and back axles, you now have a simple way of changing gear ratios. Just replace the two gears on the modded diff to assymetrical gears, stepping up or down as your need changes. This, taken to logical extension, removes the need for two gearboxes. Just have a little pinion driving a big gear, giving you a reduction box mounted on the diffs themselves.

Thinking aloud some more, HUGE tyres, reduces the amount of available torque, by stepping up the ratios. Offset the gears by that amount, bringing you back down to a more standard gearset.

Yes? No?

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:41 am

Yes, but the dual gearbox does one other thing it gives me a very low gearing for rock crawling

plus the range to still drive onroad and play in everything inbetween :wink:

And we are starting to get into the expensive zone again... to get gears cut you are looking at $300 to $1200 a gear :shock:

some thing I'm trying to stay away from at the moment :roll:

Cheers Reece

JTop · Post by **JTop** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:31 pm

Not if you use existing speedway gears, 15yrs ago I paid about $150 a set
and they come in ratios of 1:1 to 1.733:1
The down side is you are loading up your axles and diff, the opposite of portals which reduce that loading. You are also increasing your unsprung weight and at speed unsprung weight is 10 times more detrimental than sprung weight
1.733 x 4.1 gives a 7.12 final drive
1.733 x 4.86 gives a 8.42 final drive
J Top

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:00 pm

JTop wrote:Not if you use existing CLIP AND CLIP weight is 10 times more detrimental than sprung weight
1.733 x 4.1 gives a 7.12 final drive
1.733 x 4.86 gives a 8.42 final drive
J Top

DAMN!! I just KNEW there had to be a downside to my brill idea. GRRRR and they are as noisy as hell cos they are square cut for strength.

Oh well, back to doing it the hard way...,

How about...
mounting the second gearbog the other way around will reduce the length of the whole shebang, and lengthens the rear drive shaft, plus shortens the front one a tad, but could THIS work?

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:35 pm

I gotta get out more......

Lying in bed, early morning, no point in waking my darling... Cant sleep, bugger.....

Brainwave time... What about this.
Get a frontwheel power unit, maybe Toymoder camry 3.0L manual if poss, or sludge-o-magic if you are sufficiently bent thataway.

Mount it n/s. remove the spiders in the diff????? but lock diff up anyway thats feasable, block off the now front end.

attach a sturdy old gearbox, like J1 Bedford or 3 stage Cruiser box.

Something that will withstand stresses of being driven BACKWARDS!!!!! mount it BACKWARDS to the diff output that faces now rearwards.

Run jack shaft to the transfer case. prop shafts to the front and rear diffs.

The theory is, first diff is (for the numbers sake) say, 3.7:1
road diffs are, say, 4.7:1. giving a final drive ratio of 17.39:1

or have I done something wrong?

The REARWARDS gearbox is to allow road speed back again, by selecting 1st gear, should effectively cancel out the first diff reduction.

Why? now you can use longer drive shafts, and your overall length of the power unit is slightly less than a std motor gearbox.

OHHH by the way, a standard reduction box (low range device ) is about 4:1 reduction, going by wee twuck anyway.
sooo you get yr rockcrawler with slightly lower speeds by selecting your diffs carefully. Using a sludge-o-magic will give you a torque muliplier as well.

Is this a good thing? Or should I try for more sleep and maybe go out more?

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:27 pm

Damm Bob you really think outside the sqaure!!! I love it

You need a shed and and all the toys, I'd love to see some of these hit the trails :lol:

and before you sugest it look at my icon and thats on some of the projects I've got laying round here :roll:

besides if I told Penny I was gona start another one :shock:

thats just no a plesant thought :lol:

Cheers Reece

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:56 pm

De-Ranged wrote::lol: Damm Bob you really think outside the sqaure!!! I love it

You need a shed and and all the toys, CLIP>>>>>
Cheers Reece

Remember you sed that, When you meet my Siwsan, you be sure to tell her, please!!!! (I shall be hiding under a car or soemwhere safe) :lol:

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:31 pm

Yea no problems, when your over I'll tell here

... now how does it go... oh yea thats it "Bob told me to tell you...."

Cheers Reece

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:36 pm

De-Ranged wrote:Yea no problems, when your over I'll tell here ... now how does it go... oh yea thats it "Bob told me to tell you...."

Cheers Reece

Arsehole....... :twisted:

we still on for arrival Havelock North wednesday evening.
Siwsie in meetings all day Thursday.
You an me working on my twuck all day thursday, as well as put the world to rights, change a few govt details, commiserate (LIKE HELL) over canty losing to Wellington!!! YESSSSSS

We should get the hookee thingies mounted ok in a day!!

as well as drink all your coffee..

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:59 am

Reece, had another sleepless night and the thinking bit inside did this to me...

Ok I know its fairly heavy, cos of the beam to carry the diff and the stresses involved, but there aint a lot of engineering for the gain in clearance.

Whaddyer reckon?

This is based on the IRS in the back of a 2.5 triumph PI. They are mostly like this. Also the back of a Nissin laurel, mid 80s to late 90s. cept they are all of course, swinging arm type suspenders.
I see this as a dropped end axel. A solid beam gizmo.

Bob.E

rokhound · Post by **rokhound** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:33 pm

Goddamn Bob,
Now you have gone and shown Reese that sketch, he's just going to have to have a go at making one, (as if he hasn't got enough to do already) :lol:

Don't go too mental on the weight side of things Reese, (when you make it

)

H2OLOVA · Post by **H2OLOVA** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:07 pm

Looking at that pic, you might as well make some portals :wink:

go on Reece you know you want to. Just a little bit of reading :study: and you'll be able to whip some up in no time :wink:

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:14 pm

I thought reece was going for the extreme IFS idea in his paj? or maybe something here? I read a post about it awhile back.

NuTTa · Post by **NuTTa** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:56 pm

im pretty sure that's still on the cards Turoa...i got to see the lemon in person the other day when i went up to hastings last friday...she's going to be one hell of a beast when she's finished.!!!

Cheers
Brendon

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:55 pm

I've looked at this idea Bob a while back, there is infact a company in the states that makes em like this inside a beam housing :scratch: think there name was Nukeproof... I remember they did make housings anyway :lol:

And T is right I am gona put my spin on independent syspension....

I might even do 4 wheel steer as well now that Nutta dropped off an extra set of IFS hubs

But I'm gona finish the Lemon first :roll:

I'm gona work on only one project at a time... now I've just got to keep repeating that and stay away from the wanker....got to finish the lemon... got to....

Cheers Reece

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:00 pm

Hey Reece, I got this container of degreaser that I promised you. made in the states somewhere, hang on, looking at bottl.... container now.... ahhh yes, I see it, Clermont, Kentucky. made by some wanker crowd Jack something, hang on, peering at bott .... container again.. Jim somebody? Jim Axle? nah... Jim bar???? nah.. is it??? ahhhh yes.... It's BEAM!! jeeze cant read well can I? make good handwasher too. you still want it? Smells something awful too. May have to dilute it with something harmless Like coke, or lemonade or water...... There's 1125 cc 's of the stuff. I'll never use it, I never get dirty....

All I need is yer addy................