Air rifle / firearms license?

[petefj40]

Why is it some people just cant accept that other people think differently? Why all the name calling?

Yes you may not enjoy the idea of punching holes in paper with high calibre rifles, but what you do in your own time is up to you and I wouldnt make fun of it (or belittle you directly).

Pete, the Sako is a great toy but the price per round is beyond belief. Even mil surplus 50 Cal rounds would be probably be cheaper, but I am with you on this one. The challenge when you take in all the environmental and human factors to get a small projectile to hit a target at 1000m is huge. Then when you step out to max range it is astronomically hard, but not impossible. It takes a lot of time, practice and a huge danger template to even consider trying (and a large budget). Considering the 7.62 has a danger template of over 5km the 338 would have to be at least half that again and I dont know of any ranges other then military ones that can offer that sort of distance.

But if ya get one can I have a go?

Name calling is ok Heath. Doesn't bother me. I can be a moron at times anyway. At least I can admit.

Price per round for the 338 is close to $10 a round.
But hand loading can reduce the cost by half.

I've had some luck with the 204 at 200m. But at a 1000m and over will be a real challenge with the 338. You're right as far as finding a place to or range to use it.
I have a mate that manages a big block of land out on the peninsula close to Robin Hood Bay. He's an antique gun dealer. He has a wealth of knowledge in the firearms scene.

Yeah Heath. You're welcome to join us and have a go when you get here.

[haynzy]

Why is it some people just cant accept that other people think differently? Why all the name calling?

Yes you may not enjoy the idea of punching holes in paper with high calibre rifles, but what you do in your own time is up to you and I wouldnt make fun of it (or belittle you directly).

Pete, the Sako is a great toy but the price per round is beyond belief. Even mil surplus 50 Cal rounds would be probably be cheaper, but I am with you on this one. The challenge when you take in all the environmental and human factors to get a small projectile to hit a target at 1000m is huge. Then when you step out to max range it is astronomically hard, but not impossible. It takes a lot of time, practice and a huge danger template to even consider trying (and a large budget). Considering the 7.62 has a danger template of over 5km the 338 would have to be at least half that again and I dont know of any ranges other then military ones that can offer that sort of distance.

But if ya get one can I have a go?

Fair call the name calling was uncalled for however when ya go from talking about slug guns to arguably one of the most lethal rounds commercially available ya have to wonder. If the suits have any cause to change gunlaws it is backed up by people having access to firearms with capability they neither understand or could possibly handle. Now Im not saying that an individual cant handle it but I have been around firearms all my life and would put my hand on my heart and say I can shoot pretty well but would never in a million years think I am any where near capable to handle a 338 lapua. I have seen many of novice guys race out and purchase calibres like the 7mm mag and wince every time they pull the trigger.
My 2c over and my last comment.

[Heath]

Point taken

[petefj40]

Why is it some people just cant accept that other people think differently? Why all the name calling?

Yes you may not enjoy the idea of punching holes in paper with high calibre rifles, but what you do in your own time is up to you and I wouldnt make fun of it (or belittle you directly).

Pete, the Sako is a great toy but the price per round is beyond belief. Even mil surplus 50 Cal rounds would be probably be cheaper, but I am with you on this one. The challenge when you take in all the environmental and human factors to get a small projectile to hit a target at 1000m is huge. Then when you step out to max range it is astronomically hard, but not impossible. It takes a lot of time, practice and a huge danger template to even consider trying (and a large budget). Considering the 7.62 has a danger template of over 5km the 338 would have to be at least half that again and I dont know of any ranges other then military ones that can offer that sort of distance.

But if ya get one can I have a go?

Fair call the name calling was uncalled for however when ya go from talking about slug guns to arguably one of the most lethal rounds commercially available ya have to wonder. If the suits have any cause to change gunlaws it is backed up by people having access to firearms with capability they neither understand or could possibly handle. Now Im not saying that an individual cant handle it but I have been around firearms all my life and would put my hand on my heart and say I can shoot pretty well but would never in a million years think I am any where near capable to handle a 338 lapua. I have seen many of novice guys race out and purchase calibres like the 7mm mag and wince every time they pull the trigger.
My 2c over and my last comment.

Because i mentioned I was interested in buying a 338. Doesn't mean I'm going to be a sharp shooter with it. I'll be hopeless to start with, I'm sure. But I have to start somewhere.

I like my semi auto 223 and weatherby 204. But I've always been interested in the 338.

I have a lot of respect to people with years of knowledge in the firearms scene. My mate at Robin Hood bay is a legend with firearms.
I'm a good listener. Love to learn the pros n cons to any cal/rifle.

[petefj40]

Back to the topic.

I can understand people not wanting a change in the law in regards to air rifles. But they have to do something.

And yep.
Nothing said here will change anything.

[tallsam66]

AN interesting thread....well most of it .
Ok....here is my very unqualified view.

Fact : People who have an illegal firearm in there position are well aware they shouldnt have it.

Fact: The new generation of air rifles have massive power & can be very dangerous in uneducated or criminal hands.

Maybe another level of firearms licence could be added "High Powered Air Rifle" .They already have E cat etc.... so add a new lower one.They can have a lower level of knowledge & lesser level of security etc.

As i stated at the top....people who shouldnt have a rifle in there possession know it .So they need to set a minimum sentence for people caught ..then people know exactly what they will get if caught.But before bringing it in have an amnesty allowing these people to sell them or have them destroyed or surrendered to the police or an arms dealer.
Then people will have a good chance to sort things before they get tough .

[mudbugga]

I've had some luck with the 204 at 200m. But at a 1000m and over will be a real challenge with the 338. You're right as far as finding a place to or range to use it.
I have a mate that manages a big block of land out on the peninsula close to Robin Hood Bay. He's an antique gun dealer. He has a wealth of knowledge in the firearms scene.

I hunt on the farm over the next valley from your mate
Plenty of long range hares to shoot over there!!!

[petefj40]

I've had some luck with the 204 at 200m. But at a 1000m and over will be a real challenge with the 338. You're right as far as finding a place to or range to use it.
I have a mate that manages a big block of land out on the peninsula close to Robin Hood Bay. He's an antique gun dealer. He has a wealth of knowledge in the firearms scene.

I hunt on the farm over the next valley from your mate
Plenty of long range hares to shoot over there!!!

North or South of Robin Hood Bay?
You're right. My range finder often hits max distance. It's max range is 1.2k.
I always enjoy the trip out there.

[mudbugga]

Instead of turning left after the stock yards, go straight ahead.

[petefj40]

Instead of turning left after the stock yards, go straight ahead.

I love that country. It's awesome!! There are some damn STEEP hills in those parts. That road you're talking about is pretty naily. A couple of steep drop offs. I wouldn't want to get it wrong through there.

[surf_tomo]

its just bull$hit, and it doesn't even effect me.

legislation for legislation's sake.

Much like the mssa pistol grip & thumb hole stocks they tried to make e cat - and don't get me started on that.

[petefj40]

I was a bit slow on the uptake. But good to see if you own a PCP (pre-charged pneumatic) air rifle, you now need to own a firearms license to own one.

YIPPY!!!
Finally (but only after people are killed with them) it's become law.

GOOD JOB!


http://www.police.govt.nz/important-inf ... air-rifles

[goosebayhunter]

i think its a bloody good job to i dont want sifty guys walking around with slug guns with enough power to smoke goats. but its not going stop criminals from killing people with guns they still gonna get there hands on them anyways. just restricting the average joe blog.

[bda4130]

I used to own a .22 break barrel air rifle that fired at over 1000 feet per second, then traded that in for a pcp that fires at 820 ft per second. I'm now in the process of getting firearms licence as is now required by law and will be ditching air rifles altogether and getting something with a bit more grunt. My expensive pcp is now virtually worthless... Who would buy one when you can buy a 22 for a tenth of the price!!!

I don't have a problem with this law change as I was planning on getting my licence anyway and anything to take weapons out of crims hands is good. But having said that I would way rather be shot with an 820 ft/sec air rifle than .22 rimfire!

[petefj40]

I used to own a .22 break barrel air rifle that fired at over 1000 feet per second, then traded that in for a pcp that fires at 820 ft per second. I'm now in the process of getting firearms licence as is now required by law and will be ditching air rifles altogether and getting something with a bit more grunt. My expensive pcp is now virtually worthless... Who would buy one when you can buy a 22 for a tenth of the price!!!

I don't have a problem with this law change as I was planning on getting my licence anyway and anything to take weapons out of crims hands is good. But having said that I would way rather be shot with an 820 ft/sec air rifle than .22 rimfire!

I get your point.
I think the biggest difference between the PCP rifle to a springer one is. The springer is a single shot only. While some PCP rifles are a 12 shot semi auto and these things are far more accurate than a springer rifle. So while one shot at 1000fps could kill you. 12 shots at 820fps could do way more damage. Hence the reason for a license to own one..

[bda4130]

I used to own a .22 break barrel air rifle that fired at over 1000 feet per second, then traded that in for a pcp that fires at 820 ft per second. I'm now in the process of getting firearms licence as is now required by law and will be ditching air rifles altogether and getting something with a bit more grunt. My expensive pcp is now virtually worthless... Who would buy one when you can buy a 22 for a tenth of the price!!!

I don't have a problem with this law change as I was planning on getting my licence anyway and anything to take weapons out of crims hands is good. But having said that I would way rather be shot with an 820 ft/sec air rifle than .22 rimfire!

I get your point. Yeah I totally agree with that, but maybe the law should be for all air rifles over a certain ft/sec as it is in most other countries.
I think the biggest difference between the PCP rifle to a springer one is. The springer is a single shot only. While some PCP rifles are a 12 shot semi auto and these things are far more accurate than a springer rifle. So while one shot at 1000fps could kill you. 12 shots at 820fps could do way more damage. Hence the reason for a license to own one..

[bda4130]

Whoops, cocked up that quote. I totally agree that a semi auto can do way more damage! I think perhaps the law should have covered everything over a certain ft/sec like other countries do. That would keep high powered break barrels out of unsavouries hands to, cause man ya can reload a break barrel quick with a bit of practice!

[Moriarty]

Whoops, cocked up that quote. I totally agree that a semi auto can do way more damage! I think perhaps the law should have covered everything over a certain ft/sec like other countries do. That would keep high powered break barrels out of unsavouries hands to, cause man ya can reload a break barrel quick with a bit of practice!

Nope, sorry, to be so abrupt, but you are quite wrong.

If legislation COULD keep guns out of the hands of the usavories, it WOULD>
in the Philipines, one of the worlds great arms producing countries, caught carrying a rifle/pistol gun was a death penalty offence. Did it work? did it hell.

The criminal element, the ones who use guns to break the Social (REAL) laws, want guns, the get them. Easy.
IF you legislate to keep all guns out of the hands of the populace, you end up with ONLY the bad bastards WITH guns.

Russia, until fairly recently.
Germany pre WWII.
England NOW,

For a private person to want and get a rifle, (in the UK) you have to be a rich land owner, Joe from Coro Street hasnt a chance, so he gets one on the black market. Their are FAR more illegal short arms in the UK than legal.



If you take guns out of the hands of the lawabiding, only the lawless will have guns, is THAT what you want?

[bda4130]

All I want is rabbit stew and enough beer to make me shit the bed.

[petefj40]

If you take guns out of the hands of the lawabiding, only the lawless will have guns, is THAT what you want?

It may end up the way Bob. We're pretty slow to catch on down here in this part of the world. I wouldn't want to see it go that way. So I think owning a high powered air rifle or gun isn't a right. It's a privilege. And it should always be treated that way.

I think in the UK they limit air rifles not by feet per second (fps). But by how much energy it produces? I think that would be a wise thing to employ here in NZ?

Back to the springer vs PCP. Sure, you might be able to get really fast at reloading the springer. But by the time you have valuable seconds have past. Enough time for the game to get out of range. Where as the PCP rifle will shot as fast as you can pull the trigger. There's no comparison what so ever.

I do think the point brought up earlier was a good one.
Why on earth would someone pay 3 or 4 times more for a high powered PCP rifle when you can buy the good old .22 at a fraction of the price.

[flyingbrick]

If you take guns out of the hands of the lawabiding, only the lawless will have guns, is THAT what you want?

doesn't matter either way. Those of us with guns are not able to use them for self defense anyway because A, we'd go to jail for murder regardless of what the other person has done

and B, they have to be secured so that they can not possibly be pulled out for self defence use anyway. If you are not done for murder you will be done for being able to access the firearm too easily eg, it can not have been locked away.

The laws simply give the police more power to take firearms eg air rifles off the bad guys when they ARE caught.

That can't be a bad thing.

[petefj40]

One of these can stay under the bed loaded ready to go. And I can tell you. Used correctly it can do some damage. Nothing compared to a firearm. But still, it's legal.

[Swamped]

One of these can stay under the bed loaded ready to go. And I can tell you. Used correctly it can do some damage. Nothing compared to a firearm. But still, it's legal.

Kinda like taking a knife to a gunfight though right? Its been shown that gun control doesn't have any real effect on crime rates and that if anything they increase after new laws are passed. sometimes by upwards of 50%.

Did precharge guns used to be allowed to be fireed in the backyard like any break barrel? Has this rule changed if so?

[petefj40]

Did precharge guns used to be allowed to be fireed in the backyard like any break barrel? Has this rule changed if so?

Springer rifles and PCP rifles only had age restrictions on them.

I'd still rather use a sling shot at a teenage kid running away from a burglary than an air rifle or knife. But I get your point.

I don't know about a law change using a PCP rifle in a back yard. But there's been no law changes for springer rifles what so ever. So I would guess you could still use em in your back yard?

[Moriarty]

If you take guns out of the hands of the lawabiding, only the lawless will have guns, is THAT what you want?

It may end up the way Bob. We're pretty slow to catch on down here in this part of the world. I wouldn't want to see it go that way. So I think owning a high powered air rifle or gun isn't a right. It's a privilege. And it should always be treated that way. Absolutely true

I think in the UK they limit air rifles not by feet per second (fps). But by how much energy it produces? I think that would be a wise thing to employ here in NZ?

Back to the springer vs PCP. Sure, you might be able to get really fast at reloading the springer. But by the time you have valuable seconds have past. Enough time for the game to get out of range. Where as the PCP rifle will shot as fast as you can pull the trigger. There's no comparison what so ever.
What you have said here is against ALL the tenets of shooting. Put enough slugs in the air in the hopes that ONE will hit the target. BAAAAAD Petey!! The CORRECT way is to make your ONE shot kill.

I do think the point brought up earlier was a good one.
Why on earth would someone pay 3 or 4 times more for a high powered PCP rifle when you can buy the good old .22 at a fraction of the price.

When I was training my 9 yr old son to shoot, I cut down an old SINGLE SHOT .22 and he had to load it ONLY when he was about to shoot. Now? he can shoot near as well as me, and WONT shoot unless he has a clear clean target for his ONE shot kill.


PS, I hope you are watching the last scenes of Sherlock Homes
(Sun 22/5)

[petefj40]

Well put Bob.
But I'll be straight (shooting) with ya.
I'm a crap shot. The first one never hits the target. That's why I before I got my firearms license I brought a semi auto air rifle.

The Sunday theater always rates Bob. Tonight was no acception.
Bloody good shot with that hand gun wasn't it?

[Moriarty]

Well put Bob.
But I'll be straight (shooting) with ya.
I'm a crap shot. The first one never hits the target. That's why I before I got my firearms license I brought a semi auto air rifle.

The Sunday theater always rates Bob. Tonight was no acception.
Bloody good shot with that hand gun wasn't it?

all it takes is practice!!

I used to have a cap and ball revolver, uberti copy of 1863 Colt with 8" bbl. Used to hit an 18" disk at 100 yds 4 out of 6 shots standing freehand. We practiced twice a week for 6 months before we got that good. The luger was even better, 10/10 better sights and less bbl fouling. ALSO, YOUNG WITH EYES THAT WORKED!!.

If you are never going to be a good shot, get expert tuition, and PRACTICE LOTS!!!!dont rely on your backup shots with a semi!!

[flyingbrick]

http://www.catsdomain.com/

[petefj40]

http://www.catsdomain.com/

[T-Boon]

If you think the air rifle law is bad....


http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... 60&t=25882