Project Mud Blood

[meatc]

Well been working away on my project for about 12 months or so now so figured it was time to do a bit of a buld thread. Will really be more of a summary to date as I ve been pretty slack with the photos as I've gone along.

The basis and start point



Basically a standard 85 sj413 that has had the roof chopped at some point.

After running it like that for a few months and deciding it was a bit low and a bit narrow I was looking to lift/widen it. Thats when I came across a rustyold hilux that I scored for a box and a bottle.

So the plan
suki chassis
hilux 4.88 axles
coils
injected motor
body chop

What I've done
stripped it down and hung the axles off range rover arms with custom A arm in the rear on coils of unknown origin.
rear axle back 250mm
front axle forward 100mm
chopped 200ish of the rear of the chassis
cut and replace front 550mm of chassis to remove drop in rails
Nissan CA18DE 1800cc twin cam injected motor and Auto
Hilux trans adapted to nissan box ( removed 200mm off auto output shaft and had flang put onto hilux spline joiner thing and bolted that to park lock gear. Whole thing is about same length as orignal suzuki box and transfer)
Body chopped off behind the seats
60 series cruiser power steer
winch in place of radiator

Where its at
chassis is painted and complete
body is on (all be it with large hole inthe floor)
new trans tunnel is halfway installed
engine is wired power is half done





Bonnet is just sitting in place.

Left to do
finish wiring
sort rear tray and mount fuel tank and rear radiator and trans cooler and lines for all three
repair and mount bonnet
wire winch
roll cage
mount carbon race seats to roll cage
air intake
reshape extractors (there a bit wide) and connect to coby muffler
finish trans tunnel and mount shift lever
take it out and thrash it

Think thats about it. Will take some better pics over weekend. Feel free to ask, comment or pull it to bits

[new2zukes]

oh looks like you been getting along since i last saw it, it has a bit of shape now with the body sitting ontop.looks like a mean machine cant w8 to see what its capeable of:)

[spanky]

that looks real good.
vaughan

[basics]

thats looking awsome, keep the pics coming

[meatc]

It lives.

No photos yet but had it running this afternoon. It runs fine (after makeing a second trip into town to pick up my AFM that I left in BNT when buying pod filter adapter). But it has a water leak around the water pump somewhere. Means the crank angle sensor, crank pully and timing belt covers have to come off

All the wiring that I have done seems to be right and working and the gearbox which was computer controlled and is now Manual/auto seems to change in al the right places to. Guess the hours of studing wiring diagrams paid off.

Will get some photos of it parked in the sun tomorrow (after I've fixed the water leak) and on sunday will add photos of the roll cage which is being done on Sat thanks to Darinz.

Man I am happy. It hasn't run in 18mths and the end is now in sight. (full reapint might come later rather than sooner)

[darinz]

I'm glad it's going. I would hate to have to push a little zuk back on the trailer with my tractor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[meatc]

I'm glad it's going. I would hate to have to push a little zuk back on the trailer with my tractor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its not going any more!!!!!!

the water leak turned out to be the shaft seal in the water pump. Timing covers had to come off to get at it. It's non servicable so have to buy new one. Lucily my freindly BNT has one in stock and I will own it by 830 tomorrow.

Rest is read to bring down and I've cut the sides off my trailer so it fits.

See you about 730 - 8 on Sat

[darinz]

The offer of the tractor is still there. I'll just have to make the cage a bit stronger to stop things bending under the impact!!!!!!!!
Shiree isn't happy with you as the shed is spotless as present and I'm guessing after tomorrow it won't be again!! But as least I'll feel at home again.

[Sadam_Husain]

Good shit Meatc, bet your stoked to have it finely running

[meatc]

It lives again. Drove it round the section and through the drain that runs down one side of the house. Note to self must capture rear springs ( they fell out at various times) springs might be a bit soft too. The whole thing does a big roll to the right under acceleration. Rear shocks may help some.

Seems to have an intermitent auto problem where the torque converter locks up or something further down the line binds up. No rhyme or reason to it. It comes and goes so hoping its just trapped pockets of air in inthe auto working their way out. Any other ideas

anyway got it parked on the trailer ready for the cage mission tomorrow.

[new2zukes]

did you not drill those holes in the back of the trailer or did u find another spot to tie it down?

[meatc]

Good shit Meatc, bet your stoked to have it finely running

So happy that it runs. Just gotta get it useable now. Its a bit dodgy driving it with the seat held in with a couple of roofing tech screws and some blocks of wood.

Roll cage is coming along. Got the bent bits done yesterday and tacked together. Job for the next couple of weeks after work is all the braces that are going in. Then weld it all fully.

did you not drill those holes in the back of the trailer or did u find another spot to tie it down?

Yeap couple of 25mm holes into the 150x 70 rear cross member with the hole saw.

Will post pics of cage progress when Photobucket wants to play my game.

[meatc]

The results of yesterdays toil with Darinz. The 2 hours travel each way cut into working time but got all the bent bits in.







Still needs and X in the roof and in the main hoop as well as a seat belt bar. There will also be a hip rail and foot rail inthe door area and a bit of triangulation at the bend in the back stays.

[lilpigzuk]

errr, that diagonal across windscreen for bracing while welding or is that a actual brace

[lilpigzuk]

brace under screen then an upside down "V" from tip of A hoop too bottom maybe??

[meatc]

brace under screen then an upside down "V" from tip of A hoop too bottom maybe??

The brace thats there is a permenant brace. The hoop will be tied together at body level by being tied into the upper hinge mount which will be strengtherend. I know the brace is in the vision line of the passenger but I wont be sitting there

An upside down V might stop the centre of the hoop bending down if you land on the roof but the full diagonal brace shoud help stop the cage folding inwards in a roll over.

Or thats the theory any way. Open to ideas with reasons though.

[lilpigzuk]

brace under screen then an upside down "V" from tip of A hoop too bottom maybe??

The brace thats there is a permenant brace. The hoop will be tied together at body level by being tied into the upper hinge mount which will be strengtherend. I know the brace is in the vision line of the passenger but I wont be sitting there

An upside down V might stop the centre of the hoop bending down if you land on the roof but the full diagonal brace shoud help stop the cage folding inwards in a roll over.

Or thats the theory any way. Open to ideas with reasons though.

just looks odd as Ive never seen that done. Usual story check out the trials rules and the current toys out there competing, flopping over. "general" concensus the B hoop is the big one too be diagonally braced as thats the closest too the head as you plan too do but the A hoop usually takes share of B hoop or bullbar load, not on its own. Otherwise the upside down V seems to be preffered/written option.
Otherwise, good to see it near completion
edit: check any of the national trial threads with pics and see how the c and d class guys are running, they are the ones pushing and rolling their toys.

[turoa]

Could I suggest doing something a little like this.....

Ideally the front hoop needs to be inside the body and mounted to the body mount or similar as you need to do something similar to this. It stops the front spreader bar from bending down but also stops the front from moving out of square. needs to be braced to the chassis otherwise it will just bend the windscreen bar. The way you have it will mean that it only braces the top half and it can still push over on itself.



For the top, instead of doing an x, look at doing something like this. It does the same job as an X, but requires less steel and joining.



then for the rear x brace, something like this will stop any movement from the rear hoop, and also braces the top V back down to the chassis, if you kinda get what I mean

[meatc]

One of the main reasons for staying away from the /\ is due to the fact to be effective it needs to be tied to the firewall/chassis. The Zuk firewall (espically after altering the trans tunnel) isn't really up to it.

The front hoop will be tied into the body at the upper hinge mount area (strengtherened) and that also tied to the dash tube. (will effectivly tie both sides together.)

All of the /\ I have seen are lighter than the cage construction which makes me wonder about the effectiveness.

Turoa - I understand what you are saying re the V braces rather than X's but will prob stay with X's anyway. At least as strong and I'm not worried about the extra little bit of steel. Can't see why it needs to be inside the body. It sits on aslider which is tied to the chassis and the factory body mount.

I have seen a few trials vehicles and also winch trucks and at the end of the day still believe what is seen in rally cars, baja race vehicles, V8 supercars etc will be stronger. Last time I checked the trials rules a cage only needed one brace from the B hoop to the chassis on the opposite side. I dont want to have to rebuild the cage every time I have a decent flop. Idea for this is if it bends there will be bigger issues.

Keep the thoughts coming though nothing is in steel till its cut and welded. ( and then a cut off wheel can fix that. )

[turoa]

All of the /\ I have seen are lighter than the cage construction which makes me wonder about the effectiveness.

reason for that is you can get away with using light stuff because it is in compression. Anything straight and not part of the basic trials structure you can use lightweight steel and it wont bend. On my trials buggy I have used 25nb 3mm wall for the main structure and exhaust tube of similar size for anything not regulated and straight.

[Petemcc]

reason for that is you can get away with using light stuff because it is in compression..

how does that work? steel is stronger in tension rather than compression.

Pete

[darinz]

The simple reason for not putting a /\ in the windscreen is there is nothing to support the bottom of it. The whole idea is to make triangles so if you put a /\ in the windscreen you would need to carry it down to the chassis to get the strength from it. As has been said, going to the chassis at the firewall isn't really practical in this case so you do what fits.
Ideally a /\ in the windscreen would be the way to go as it means both drive and coey woul abe able to see, (which is the reason not strength!) but the whole firewall area needs to be built accordingly.
The other option and the one that most ciruict, rally etc cars have, is a diagonal like has been done. This is also a stronger way of doing it as the braces are on a slightly angle to where the impact will be. This brace isn't needed to build it to ANY rule so is overkill anyway.
As has been said, the 'B' (main) hoop is where the real strength is and that will have a complete 'X' in it. The roof will also have a 'X' in it as that will double be giving the roof panel extra support. An /\ in the mainhoop would then transfer the loan to the centre of the hoop which would then become a weak point in the case of a side load to the main hoop. And as this is the most likely load this is what it has been designed to resist. The bend in the main hoop uprights will be tied together by the harness mounting bar so that is taken care of. The bend in the back stays is taken care of by the shock mounts which will tie in at these areas.
In a perfect world with an unlimited budget it would be different but you have to be realistc about how far you go. The current C and D class trails buggy's are spaceframe construction and that is a whole different ball game so what they do is different. If you read the ORANZ rules then spaceframe vehicles don't even have the same rules for the rollover protection. Same goes for Baja trophy trucks etc etc.
An internal cage would be stronger but if it was internal where would the driver sit???!!!
You can get ideas from all over the place but you need to look at why things are done not just what is done as then you can make it fit with what you are doing.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong with their coments but you need to look at the whole cage and as a package and think about where the load is getting transfered too, as that is the critical point.

[meatc]

Well I have been a bit slack on the posting front, but I have been busy in the shed.

Its getting pretty close now. Cage is finished and painted seats are permenatly mounted, gauges are in, etc. Just waiting on a bit of fibreglass to dry and the bonnet will be ready to paint. Still have to paint the body/bonnet and sort the seat covers. Seats are going to get close cell foam pads.

A while back I had a problem with stalling/what i thought may have been gear box issues. This was sorted a bit with some idle adjustment (up to the 850 ish rather than the 400 it ws idling at.) It still wasn't right and then in a bit of a flash last night I thought timing. Checked it today and it was at TDC rather than the 15 deg BTDC that it should have been. Much better, it idles smooth stays idling when you put it in gear and sounds right now too.

Pics will follow when Photobucket wants to upload them.

[darinz]

You are booked into a trip on 21 Feb to test it out good!!! It will be a long trip so maybe you will have to stay in Whangarei the Saturday night to debrief!

[meatc]

You are booked into a trip on 21 Feb to test it out good!!! It will be a long trip so maybe you will have to stay in Whangarei the Saturday night to debrief!

Will see if I can swing a pass from the boss. might be a bit easier now the Whangarei event is a bit further away.

[meatc]

O.K I've been slack with the pics but there are some comming I promise.

Anyway after a quick fang around at my parents place sunday it was determined that the "not sure where they came from" springs where to soft around. A bit of a flick around a couple of places on monday saw me with sufficent SWB vitara rears to do all four corners. They are close on twice the spring rate of what I originally had (80 p/i versus 155 p/i) and seem to work well.

So pass granted it had its first proper run in the northern Whangarei mud. As Darinz said above it was a good test. Plenty of wet rutted climbs and the odd swamp, including one the first 4 trucks had to winch/snatch through. I was the first to drive it but not the last.

The carnage list is pretty short considering it had never been tested.
1. Its got and engine related (but not engine) rattle. Thinking flexie plate/ring gear or possibly starter gear rattling on the ring gear. Either way engine has to come out as the rear main oil seal has a significant leak (that I knew already)

2. Bent the rear left upper spring pad(not the springs fault I mounted the recovery hook to it for want of a better place. Used it a few time to recover a SWB patrol out of the above mentioned bog. wasn't the ideal place and will be changed.

3. Fuel tank has a leak/crack in the seam. (went back to the original zuk tank as the pic up of the boat tank was in the corner and wasnt the best.) Now on the hunt for a fuel cell or alloy tank.

End of the day Im as happy as a pig in S&^%T. It drove every where I pointed it, and one one of only a few to drive the big bog (only one on M/T's rather than Simex/silverstone) and despite the rattle which was determined no to be terminal drove it on the trailer at the end of the day.

Yes its back to the shed for repairs but in truth I was expecting way way worse.

[meatc]

Well spent some time in the shed tonight after buying a new G/Box and torque converter for $30 on T/M.

Turns out my first guess was right and all it needs is a new Flexi plate. (Not sure the new box has this with it ) Guess I should have locktited the bolts that hold it to the torque converter . They have losened off a bit and shagged the bolt holes. At least its and easy fix and has forced the early repair to the leaking seal.

On the down side as I have been clearing the engine bay to remove the motor I have found the upper front shock mounts are starting to show signs of movement. More steel required

[meatc]

Been slack with this but its sort of finished. Few little things to do and there is the odd thing that pops up from time to time. Its basically going as I want it and now I just need to spend some time in the seat.











Thats not full flex and the top of the ramp is 850mm off the ground.

edit to fix pics

[Madaz]

Nice, should be a force to be reconed with next year aye

[new2zukes]

thought id just add another photo.