Lock-Right Lockers vs ARB Lockers.

[Discodriver]

Help!
I have done a bit of reading on the net, and talked to a couple of different 4wd shops in Chch, one is telling me to stay clear of Lock-Right, and the other is saying that the Lock-Right lockers are well not better, but have less chance of breakdown as they are not air driven, hence dont have the risk of O-ring failure issues like the ARB ones.
Any advice would be awesome.
Cheers.
Chris.

[Sadam_Husain]

theres pro's and con's either way and also a pretty big cost difference so it comes down to personal preferance

[Discodriver]

theres pro's and con's either way and also a pretty big cost difference so it comes down to personal preferance

The Pro's and Con's being?

[Sadam_Husain]

theres pro's and con's either way and also a pretty big cost difference so it comes down to personal preferance

The Pro's and Con's being?

being selectable and non selectable

If you search back through the threads you'll find most people that run auto lockers seem to love them and swear by them and people with selectable lockers love them and swear by them

[Engineer]

theres pro's and con's either way and also a pretty big cost difference so it comes down to personal preferance

The Pro's and Con's being?

being selectable and non selectable

If you search back through the threads you'll find most people that run auto lockers seem to love them and swear by them and people with selectable lockers love them and swear by them

i run lock rights front and rear and love them! cost effective work great give no problems but i do wish they were selectable, only reason i went lockrights was easy...$$$$$

Next time i buy locker itll be an ARB air just for the fact its selectable

Ryan

[niblik]

auto locker up front means ya better have strong front cv's (read: longs) and it can decrease turning circle.. only way to disengage is drop out of 4wd and disengage hubs... rear auto locker is mint...

how hard ya gonna wheel and how much coin ya got to put into it?

i ran a locker in the rear of my 40 and it was sweet.. love lock rights..

i'm puttin arb's into it now, only cos i can... otherwise auto's are great bang for ya buck.. never seen anyone with them, have them fail..

[NJV6]

Do you drive a Disco as your username suggests?

If so i think that will narrow down your choices considerably being full time 4WD

[DieselBoy]

Or just get the welder out

[Discodriver]

Yeah, I do drive a Disco, ok, dumb question, but why would that narrow down my choice?
From what I read on the Powertrax website, my understanding is that the power is transferred to the non-spinning wheel for more drive. Being a non-selectable system was the only thing I guess I am a little confused about, I am a Dairy cocky (no I don't own the joint so I am not rich)! and I know when I engage the Diff lock on the Tractor steering turns to mud for obvious reasons. My understanding is that the Lock Right will only engage when there is a loss of traction?
Would that mean a significant loss of steering control at the same time?
I use my Disco for fishing, camping, and playing around in mud etc etc, don't intend to do competitions, but some of the places we go on the coast can be pretty gnarly, I realise I will need to throw $$$ at this which ever way I go. So far the only mod is a 50mm suspension lift, but I do want to snorkel it, run probably 33"s, and sort of some form of diff lock for extra traction.

[turoa]

you have to think of them as auto unlockers, because thats basically what they are. They only disengage when there is no power put through the diff. Id go selectable anyday

[niblik]

you'd probably want to get some 33's as you've stated and see how ya go like that, then progress through possibly suspension mods and then perhaps lockers? i only say that if ya lock it up, lets say with 31's, you could do more harm than good in regards to rippin up tracks etc..

auto lockers are made for certain types of vehicle, hence the comment you may struggle..

either way, its your choice so go forth and have fun doin so!

[91Rangie]

Found this on another site

A locker, ARB or otherwise, locks the diff and splits the power equally between two wheels on the same axle, such that they rotate at the same speed. Normally, a diff is open. This is good because when a vehicle turns one wheel on the same axle naturally turns a little faster than the other one. This is why, with a Detroit locker, you can get some tire "barking" if the automatic locker locks up while turning. An open diff is not so good, however, when off-road. If a wheel is lifted in the air or completely lacks traction in mud, the open diff will divert all power to that wheel, essentially stopping you. In this situation a CDL (or better, a CDL combined with ETC) will, in many cases divert power to the opposite wheel and pull you thru. Many cases,,,,but not all.

In more extreme off-road situations, the benefit of a locker is clear. In the event of a lifted tire or a tire hopelessly spinning in mud, the opposite tire is still moving forward at the same rate. When the other tire 'hooks up', you'll move forward. An ARB is a selectable locker using compressed air to trigger 'lock-up'. The benefit is that you can choose between open, and 100% locked-up on demand. A Detroit Locker is an automatic locker that will lock up on it's own when it senses a difference between wheel speeds on the same axle. The benefit is you don't need to think about it or select it. A simple turn can trigger lock-up with a Detroit. (This is why you'll usually only see a DL up-front on a trail-only rig). A True-Track is a limited slip diff that works very well in conjunction with ETC. The braking of the ETC will usually inspire the TT to "lock"-up.

The combinations you'll usually see are (rear/front) DL/TT, TT/TT, ARB/open, ARB/ARB

If you search around most of the Landys go with a Detroit True Trak in the front and a Detroit Locker in the rear which is what im doing.
My Detroit arrived from the US last month got that for $900 and that was delivered before I payed for it! and my Truetrak arrived today got that for $850 but for the first time ever It got stopped at customs so had to pay the GST of $82 .
At the time they wanted about $1350 deliverd for a ARB

[Windsock]

...My Detroit arrived from the US last month got that for $900... ...my Truetrak arrived today got that for $850...

Were these pricesin NZ$$? Good news if they were in NZD!

[91Rangie]

Yep prices I quoted were NZ Dolllars.

[Windsock]

Yep prices I quoted were NZ Dolllars.

Thats damn good pricing. Damn good. Got any links I can look at?

[Cloggy_NZ]

Yep prices I quoted were NZ Dolllars.

Thats damn good pricing. Damn good. Got any links I can look at?

Same here Paul, very interested to see where you got those from.
Found these:

http://www.rearendparts.com/home.php?cat=187
and
http://www.rearendparts.com/home.php?cat=184
But this place doesn't ship outside the USA, so I would need to get that BuyUSA crowd involved as well.

and from a different supplier who will ship direct to NZ
http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_info. ... s_id/18000
and
http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_info. ... s_id/17997

[Bulletproof]

Help!
I have done a bit of reading on the net, and talked to a couple of different 4wd shops in Chch, one is telling me to stay clear of Lock-Right, and the other is saying that the Lock-Right lockers are well not better, but have less chance of breakdown as they are not air driven, hence dont have the risk of O-ring failure issues like the ARB ones.
Any advice would be awesome.
Cheers.
Chris.

I have been running ARB lockers for 13 years and have done well over 100,000 thosand kilometers. In that time I have broken two cross shafts holding the spider gears. The two short Shafts have flogged out because of excess movement so I have modified them with shims.
I have also worn out the flange that the O rings seal on, and have had them built up to original.

Apart from that they have been trouble free and I wouldn't consider any other locker. I like to have complete control and have modified the wiring of the ARBs so I can put the front in separately from the rear which you can't do from factory. There is a big advantage in this as on snow or greasy ground you can turn your truck around in its length by flooring the accelerator and putting on full lock with the front only engaged.
A friend of mine with a range rover completely broke off the flange holding the drive side bearing on the carriage.

But I do that my diffs out once a year and inspect and reset all preloads and tolerances to factory
I still stick with ARB

Cheers Richard

[cool__bananas]

i completly agree with what richard is saying, if your going to buy a auto locker it would just be better welded in my opinion because welding costs nothing and then you know its engaged where as auto locker do what they want are are pritty much always engaged. we have been running arb lockers in our trucks now for years and have only ever had problems with blowing the airline after welding near it which was easy fixed, and then just driver error.

although richard, both lockers can be turned on and off with factory wiring? on our nissan we can do individual lockers or maybe ours is different too.

[wjw]

I run auto lockers, and yes ARB's do fail, IT is quite possible that this is caused by lack of maintenance though. Auto lockers don't need any maintenance. If I had the money I would go ARB both ends, but I think best value for money would be auto in the rear, and ARB in the front.

[badnuz]

anything can fail if not maintained.....

[U-BOAT]

by wjw on Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:10 am

I run auto lockers, and yes ARB's do fail, IT is quite possible that this is caused by lack of maintenance though. Auto lockers don't need any maintenance. If I had the money I would go ARB both ends, but I think best value for money would be auto in the rear, and ARB in the front.

Sorry i have to dissagree completley. I have had one fail on me and know of 3 other guys down here on the coast that have had auto-lockers fail. Come to think of it didnt Dieselboys lockrite fail in his safari? The problem with lokka's or lockrites is that they retain the original carrier and pinion shaft(s) within the carrier. This is not true with the detroit full locker.

My lockrite snapped the pinion shaft into 5 pieces and then the locker jammed solid, meanwhile the CW&P ate all the chunks floating round. This was also the case for 2 of the other guys down here. One was in a 3bt landcruiser and one in a 1KZ prado. The other one I know of and was possibly the case in Dieselboys example was that the tolerance between the two halfs of the locker was to great. Two reasons cause this, 1, the thrust washers from the original diff waear out causing the locker to become 'loose' (in terms of it set up - loose or tight) and 2, the locker has been set up with excessive tolerance. Either way the locker tries to spit the locking pins out and breaks pieces of the housing.

In saying that i know of people who have run lockrites for 8-10 years and they are still going strong. I still think bang for buck lockrite's and lokka's are great and work well but vehicles will handle differently on the road compared to an LSD or selectable locker. I'm not saying that they are bad but i would prefer (money allowing) a selectable locker any day in a vehicle that is going to see alot of road use. just my opinion. cheers marc

[rangimotors]

I think its the same with anything we do it all needs a bit of tlc, like bulletpoof said the once a year the strip and rebuild is ideal.
I have two trucks, one is an ifs surf and the other is a bit more serious hilux double cab with plenty of mods in progress. I had planned on running front and rear lockrights in the double cab but after putting a lockright in the front of my surf have changed my mind. The lockright has transformed the surf its only a poxy 2lt with 33's and lsd in the rear and the front locker is fantastic, however it does have its down sides. It can be very hard to turn and it is hard on the rest of the truck. There is no way i will be taking it out but for my serious build i will be putting an auto in the rear and saving for longs and a arb for the front.
I found it really interesting reading about the recent westcoast trip that AL (i think) found it easier when he turned his locker off.
Autos are good and im aware that they do unlock when used correctly but try telling one to unlock when your trying to take a hard left hand turn down a very steep muddy hill with a big drop to the right side, its not a plesent feeling going straight ahead and crossing your fingers.
My goal for my double cab is to have enough flex and travel that my wheels stay on the ground and i can drive 90 percent of the time with the front unlocked and the auto in the rear. Time will tell...

[wjw]

by wjw on Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:10 am
Auto lockers don't need any maintenance.

Sorry i have to dissagree completley.

Remember this is based on each persons experience, in my experience auto lockers are more reliable than ARB's.

Also isn't that general maintenance on the Diff not the locker specifically?

[madaz068]

I run a auto locker in the front of my prado with a lexus V8. Best addition to the truck i think. Im happy to run the auto locker in the front as i can disconnect the hubs for road driving, but dont think i would like one in the rear. I think i would prefer a selectable one in the rear.

[IcedJohnno]

I also run a Lock-Right in the front of my Prado and I also think it is the best mod that I have done, it transformed the vehicle.
As stated on here before, I have used a rear carrier which normally has 4 differential gears rather than the two seen up front as stock. In my opinion the rear style (4 pin) auto-unlocker has a more progressive feel to it and is definitely stronger. My Lock-Right was set up properly shim wise and this also makes it smooth and progressive.

I don't have any issues what-so-ever with heavy steering and never hear the clicking that lots of people go on about. I find absolutely no difference with my turning circle either. This was something I carefully measured as I drive a track with 10 tight hairpin corners several times a week. Why I bought a SWB.
I find my auto unlocker L-R will release when needed and that is something I do not often see with ARB lockers. This advantage is due to the unlocker automatically releasing when the torque differential senses the need to do so.

With the L-R in the front end my vehicle still has impeccable on-road manners due to hubs being disengaged and yet when driven with verve on shingle in 4wd it still handles fine. (KZJ-71 is the SWB and very snappy so I find 4wd on any shingle windy road very useful.)

I have had my rear unlocker in the front of my Prado for 5 years and about 80 000 km's. I would recommend your first locker being in the front end as this helps you to climb (to pull) over stuff, rather than be pushed over it.
I have yet to have CV problems (touches his head) but do only run the 32 x 10.5 Simexes.

Yes there are times on the tracks where I would like to be able to release the Front end. These times in my opinion are way less than the expense or the fully locked (poor lock) and hard to unlock with wind up on, option of an ARB.

I guess I have the best of both worlds cos I have the electric factory locker in the rear as well.

Another point of view, and also one from somebody who uses their vehicle in a hard manner.

Cheers John

[mudgripz]

I had a tightened lsd in the rear and an aussie lokka in the front of my last truck and that setup performed really well. The addition of front lokka made massive difference esp with hillclimbs. I note 4wd Systems Online in aust in their blurb say front lockers give greater improvement - though don't know how that could be true given big variations in weight and balance for different trucks.

As I set up new truck - and being mindful of costs - am planning auto lokka for rear and selectable locker for front. Not so often you need both lockers, and selectable in front means saving pressure on front cvs through using it only when necessary.

My 2c worth of experience..

[U-BOAT]

by wjw on Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:13 pm

U-BOAT wrote:
by wjw on Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:10 am
Auto lockers don't need any maintenance.



Sorry i have to dissagree completley.


Remember this is based on each persons experience, in my experience auto lockers are more reliable than ARB's.

Also isn't that general maintenance on the Diff not the locker specifically?

The locker pieces themselves don't require any maintenance as such but for the locker to work correctly without failing and the fact the thrust washers are what sets the tolerance between the locker i would have to say yes.

For autolockers it also pays to check the pinion shaft(s) in the carrier as these snap and write the diff off. I have just removed a lockrite from a 2.8 hilux that was one clutch dump away from snapping the carrier in two. I spose what i'm trying to say is that in my experience and what i've been told from Richard (bulletproof) it doesn't matter if you've got an ARB or a lockrite things inherently wear out and periodic maintenance is the only way to prevent such breakages.

Back to the lockrite vs ARB debate. What are people thoughts on lockers while descending steep downhills? The reason i ask this is that they tracks we are opening up with Flag and some of the existing tracks have quite steep hills to descend, i.e. tailings, precipice and a number of others out seddonville. They way Richard explained it to me was that on a steep descent an ARB or a an e-locker when engaged prevents you from locking up one wheel under engine braking or if the brakes are applied, giving you more control and making it safer. With a lockrite or auto-unlocker, they do just that unlock. Having lockrites front and rear you have the equivalent of open diffs, while going downhill without any power on allowing one wheel or more to lock. This coupled with the fact my hilux is automatic (less engine braking) has leaned me to putting an e-locker out of a prado into my front diff. Any thoughts on this?

[sig]

in my opinion and experience ,DONT engage a rear locker going down a slippery hill .unless you want to have the back overtake the front .if you want NO control of your steering engage your front locker

[Bulletproof]

A manual box and all wheels locked up is a huge advantage on really steep descents. It means you can stay in a higher gear and control speed with the brakes because no wheel can lock up.
If you start to slide, because you are in a higher gear you can floor it , accelerate and gain control. This is only possible with a manual locker. I always use both lockers for big downhill descents.

Cheers Richard

[sig]

every one is entitled to there own opinion.if all wheels are locked then if one skids they all skid ,if unlocked if one skids then there is a higher chance that one will not be skiding giving the driver at least some control (even if it is only a little bit)