New Jeep

[rem]

Intending to purchase a TJ model jeep but wanting to know if there is much (if any) difference between NZ new and imported models?

[yeti]

xj or tj will be along soon they will see you right.....in mean time have a read of this..... viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14520&st=0&sk=t&sd=a page 2

[TJ]

Intending to purchase a TJ model jeep but wanting to know if there is much (if any) difference between NZ new and imported models?

I don't think there would be much difference in export TJs. The only thing I can think of is possibly the diff ratios. I believe some years in Japanese models they came out with 3.73 ratios, but I'll check that. Otherwise, TJ is a TJ. Japanese radio might be useless, but who wants a radio in a TJ.

The good thing about the local TJs is that you can get a good service history with them. Be careful of the moded ones available, unless you know TJs well and can pick out the dodgy bits. Have you driven one to see if you like it? If you have specific questions about them, fire away. Both XJ and I drive TJs on a daily basis, so more than happy to answer your queries (probably not during the day time though).

[Fen]

Actually there is a major difference that XJ put me onto; NZ New TJs have a Dana 44 rear diff whereas imports often have only a Dana 35, which is much less strong.

The downside is that (if imports do have 3.73 gearing) you get 3.07 with an NZ New. I'm now in the position of having a Dana 44 rear but 3.07 gears which are already too tall for 31's so I'm going to have to regear. I guess the silver lining is as I have to regear anyway then I might as well do it to suit the tyres I want rather than compromising the tyre size to suit the gears.

There's more difference between years; around 2000 the alternator moved higher and the ignition went electronic which may be abit more water-friendly (thanks TJ for giving me that tidbit) and in 2003 there was a significant number of minor changes like the seats and minor dash look - the only biggie being the auto went 4 speed that year if you want an auto. The only revision after that was the manual going 6 speed in 2005.

[TJ]

Actually there is a major difference that XJ put me onto; NZ New TJs have a Dana 44 rear diff whereas imports often have only a Dana 35, which is much less strong.

Thats not correct because all export TJs (except for to Canada and Mexico) had Dana 44 rear ends. Dana 35c was standard on export Cherokees, but never Wranglers (TJ variety). I have checked this directly with the factory and numerous other sources.

The downside is that (if imports do have 3.73 gearing) you get 3.07 with an NZ New. I'm now in the position of having a Dana 44 rear but 3.07 gears which are already too tall for 31's so I'm going to have to regear. I guess the silver lining is as I have to regear anyway then I might as well do it to suit the tyres I want rather than compromising the tyre size to suit the gears.

I have 3.07 gears as well and find it be okay for now. I do plan on regearing (and locking) at the same time, why spend labour twice!!

There's more difference between years; around 2000 the alternator moved higher and the ignition went electronic which may be abit more water-friendly (thanks TJ for giving me that tidbit) and in 2003 there was a significant number of minor changes like the seats and minor dash look - the only biggie being the auto went 4 speed that year if you want an auto. The only revision after that was the manual going 6 speed in 2005.

That alternator being higher up comes handy if you play in mud. Also, the head and pistons were changed slightly (or improved), giving the 2000+ TJ a bit more torque and horsepower than earlier 4.0 litre engines. Nothing dramatic though as its the same engine overall.

[Fen]

OK; I'm happy to be corrected on the rear diff, but the 2005 auto ex-Japan TJ I looked at had a D35, as does the lifted '99 one in Wellington still on TM.

Regear and lock at the same time seems the sensible way to go and is what I will be doing once I have soretd out a means of generating income again.

The other TJ that was out with us on Sunday, which I took to be a '97 as it has sliders for the HVAC controls, has 3.07 gears and a D44, runs 33" tyres and is an auto. Although the owner agreed he needed to regear he didn't think it was a major issue even though he has 2" more tyre, so I suspect I notice the gearing issue more with my manual as 5th is close to useless. 4th is my direct drive ratio and is fine with 31s, and as the 3 speed auto's 3rd is 1:1 it will perform the same as I do in 4th.

Aside from that I did feel there was too much of a jump even in low range between 2nd and 3rd, and a regear will bring the ratios closer together. I imagine 2nd in the 3 speed is in between 2nd and 3rd in the manual (which is where I wanted to be a lot of the time), assuming the TC ratio is the same between a 3 speed auto and 5 speed manual, which would also mask the effects of tall gearing more than the manual does.

[TJ]

OK; I'm happy to be corrected on the rear diff, but the 2005 auto ex-Japan TJ I looked at had a D35, as does the lifted '99 one in Wellington still on TM.

I find that very strange, unless someone has done a swap from a Cherokee (XJ) after blowing their original diff..... The other thing is, if its a Renegade (or Sahara - which is the same thing) it will be Dana 44 rear.

Regear and lock at the same time seems the sensible way to go and is what I will be doing once I have soretd out a means of generating income again.

The other TJ that was out with us on Sunday, which I took to be a '97 as it has sliders for the HVAC controls, has 3.07 gears and a D44, runs 33" tyres and is an auto. Although the owner agreed he needed to regear he didn't think it was a major issue even though he has 2" more tyre, so I suspect I notice the gearing issue more with my manual as 5th is close to useless. 4th is my direct drive ratio and is fine with 31s, and as the 3 speed auto's 3rd is 1:1 it will perform the same as I do in 4th.

Aside from that I did feel there was too much of a jump even in low range between 2nd and 3rd, and a regear will bring the ratios closer together. I imagine 2nd in the 3 speed is in between 2nd and 3rd in the manual (which is where I wanted to be a lot of the time), assuming the TC ratio is the same between a 3 speed auto and 5 speed manual, which would also mask the effects of tall gearing more than the manual does.

I do spend a bit of time in 2nd and low (mine is 3 speed auto), so I think are right about that. All Wranglers (other than Rubicons) have the NP231 transfer case (NV231 - same thing). Unless you meant torque converter when you said TC. I don't find the gearing to be tall, except for on steep downhills when even 1st and Low can be tricky sometimes. But I have learnt to drive it that way and don't have major issues.

[Fen]

I meant transfer case. I thought that they were all the same apart from the Rubicon (shame we didn't get that here).

In terms of diffs when I went to look at the lifted '99 in Welly the owner said it had a D35 when I asked. I crawled under the '05 one to have a look as I was quite close to buying it. It was totally stock and only had 17,800kms on it and no signs of off-road use so I doubt it had had a D44 blown and replaced with a D35. I only looked at Sports if that makes a difference.

[rem]

Thanks for the input guys,
I was looking at getting nothing but a manual, as i have rallied a manual Cruiser, super modified class, in a previous life and thought the auto may be a bit of a hand full down the big slippery bits. The 3 speed with 3.07 diff would be an option as there are more autos for sale than manuals and from your posts seem to have the right ratio for off road I do intend to lift it and put lockers in and run bigger tyres, (independent brakes if they were allowed) Otherwise it is a regear. Is this a major, supply and expense wise?
Thanks again

[TJ]

Is this a major, supply and expense wise?

If this is a major concern, this might be the wrong sport to start getting into

Modifying Jeeps is no more or less expensive than any other make. What makes a huge difference is how much elbow grease you are willing to put yourself in the whole modification. I have found it is cheaper to actually import parts for Jeeps as the local market is very limited and not necessarily fully knowledgeable. There are certain shops here who are better at understanding Jeeps, certainly but they are not common (say compared to people who work on Nissans and Yotas).

[xj]

TJ - Ive had both an english import and a jap import TJ in my driveway both with d35 rears. You can research until the cows come home.... seen em with my own eyes.

Fen & Rem - Ive got a 5 speed manual with 3.07 gearing, 33's and lockers front and rear. I have no issue with gearing offroad. Most done in low 2, sand in low 3 at times. Onroad 5th gear sits at 1500rpm at 100kmh, and 4th gets up to 2000rpm at 100kmh. 110kmh is about as fast as it gets.

Havent done a ring and pinion yet, nor spider gears, but have broken a few axles.

Your choice at the end of the day will be subject to many factors, my setup works well for me.

[TJ]

TJ - Ive had both an english import and a jap import TJ in my driveway both with d35 rears. You can research until the cows come home.... seen em with my own eyes.

I have no reason to doubt your claim, but it goes against every other bit of information that I have. I might need to dig it up a bit more separately (mini project for me to keep busy when nothing is on TV).

[rem]

Yep its a real quandry for someone starting from scratch, just about worn out google looking for info, most of it from Aus or US. NOT a lot from here. I am thinking it is a return to the past and learn as you go but would like to know the basics are right as far as running gear is concerned the rest is just for show, so will preferably look for a Dana 44.? and pref manual ( its what im used too) and you answered my original question about imports so ive learnt something already. Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
Cheers

[TJ]

Yep its a real quandry for someone starting from scratch, just about worn out google looking for info, most of it from Aus or US. NOT a lot from here. I am thinking it is a return to the past and learn as you go but would like to know the basics are right as far as running gear is concerned the rest is just for show, so will preferably look for a Dana 44.? and pref manual ( its what im used too) and you answered my original question about imports so ive learnt something already. Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
Cheers

Wranglers are surprisingly simple to work on. They don't have much electric stuff, older ones have even less electronics. Dashboard is supposed to be rain resistant (not waterproof). Just take your pick, something that has not too many modifications or scratches under on the skids. Also, make sure you have a Wrangler with rear Dana 44 if you are planning on taking it offroad with anything other that factory tyres. As for auto vs manual, well thats a personal choice - either one would do. If you are into water crossing much, manual might be easier (but then you easily burn your clutch in mud)!!!! So each has advantages and disadvantages.

My personal preference would be something 2000+ NZ new. You get the better front axle u-joints and higher alternator with distributorless (and plug wire less) ignition system.

[Flash2004]

Not sure if I can add anything to this which hasn't already been said but try these:

If you find a TJ you like run the Jeep VIN through here - http://jeep.avtograd.ru/VIN/vin_en.asp and get a sort of build sheet for it. You'll see if it was an export model or not at least and i tend to agree with TJ that all the export models were D44 rears. God knows where the ones that aren't come from though.

Seriously consider the auto, because unlike a lot of others it really does hold you on descents in forwards or reverse if you lock it in low. I'd drive mine almost down a cliff.

Not sure why TJ is anti modified TJ's because if they've been done right they can save you a lot of coin if you're going down that track yourself - and you'll have to if you are not happy as a spectator. if they've used bolt in goodies they're usually OK. i could never understand and would personally rather own any truck that's been off roaded in the right hands than one which has been ignorantly abused on the highways and streets by one of the great unwashed. At least with a TJ, usually due to the expense, the driver might have a few clues and some knowledge if he takes it off road regularly.

I'm sitting here looking out the window at a 1999 TJ with about $140k invested in it, a lot of that is revisiting the same mods several times to get it right and that shouldn't have happened but it did anyway. Invested is the wrong word too, I'll never get a tenth of it back probably.

Here's my honest opinion - if you want reliability and low ongoing cost buy a 70 series cruiser. You'll have to learn to live with mediocrity in all sorts of ways but you'll still be moving. If you want to be right at the cutting edge on any trail or in club competition, buy a TJ and start spending. Other Jeep owners on here may disagree with me, but they don't know where I routinely can and do go either. I can't approach or even find the TJ's limits without backing off through an overpowering pucker factor I'm just too sensible ( read old) to deal with. good luck!

[xj]

TJ - Ive had both an english import and a jap import TJ in my driveway both with d35 rears. You can research until the cows come home.... seen em with my own eyes.

I have no reason to doubt your claim, but it goes against every other bit of information that I have. I might need to dig it up a bit more separately (mini project for me to keep busy when nothing is on TV).

And there never was a 1996 TJ either aye? Of the 4 reference books i have in my bookcase none mention there ever being a 96 TJ. No specs for them, nothing..... Yet RJ has one sitting in his driveway..... Dont believe everything that is written.

[TJ]

And there never was a 1996 TJ either aye? Of the 4 reference books i have in my bookcase none mention there ever being a 96 TJ. No specs for them, nothing..... Yet RJ has one sitting in his driveway..... Dont believe everything that is written.

Ahh, a subject that mystifies a lot of people. In the year 1996 there were definitely TJs "manufactured" but they were "1997 model" production. Next year's model is typically released in the US market around September so that fleet replacement can be done in time (which usually happens in October). So if you look at the manufacture date, it will say 1996 but there was no 1996 Jeep Wrangler (either YJ or TJ) as 1996 was the cross-over year for the models.

[xj]

And there never was a 1996 TJ either aye? Of the 4 reference books i have in my bookcase none mention there ever being a 96 TJ. No specs for them, nothing..... Yet RJ has one sitting in his driveway..... Dont believe everything that is written.

Ahh, a subject that mystifies a lot of people. In the year 1996 there were definitely TJs "manufactured" but they were "1997 model" production. Next year's model is typically released in the US market around September so that fleet replacement can be done in time (which usually happens in October). So if you look at the manufacture date, it will say 1996 but there was no 1996 Jeep Wrangler (either YJ or TJ) as 1996 was the cross-over year for the models.

his rego says 1996, as do the ownership papers, as does the sticker on the inside of the door frame. looks like, smells like, therefore is.

[Taz]

And there never was a 1996 TJ either aye? Of the 4 reference books i have in my bookcase none mention there ever being a 96 TJ. No specs for them, nothing..... Yet RJ has one sitting in his driveway..... Dont believe everything that is written.

Ahh, a subject that mystifies a lot of people. In the year 1996 there were definitely TJs "manufactured" but they were "1997 model" production. Next year's model is typically released in the US market around September so that fleet replacement can be done in time (which usually happens in October). So if you look at the manufacture date, it will say 1996 but there was no 1996 Jeep Wrangler (either YJ or TJ) as 1996 was the cross-over year for the models.

his rego says 1996, as do the ownership papers, as does the sticker on the inside of the door frame. looks like, smells like, therefore is.

My mates got a 71 Celica that says 72 everywhere because that's what they wrote down when it came to NZ in 72.

[TJ]

his rego says 1996, as do the ownership papers, as does the sticker on the inside of the door frame. looks like, smells like, therefore is.

Rego says it because the VTNZ staff wrote it down as such when it was certified at import (wrongly). Ownership papers simply reflect that. There is nothing you can do about it now (I know because I have had to explain over 4 months that the idiot who filled the forms for my WG wrote Chrysler Grand Cherokee Jeep and NOT Jeep Grand Cherokee...... It took me a while and a few phone calls).

The sticker on the inside of the door frame says it to 1996 because that is when it was "manufactured" and made available to be sold as 1997 model. Parts and vehicles are to be manufactured prior to being made for sale. As TJ and JKs were / are only assembled at the Toledo (Ohio) plant, hence early lead time for getting them shipped across the world). Mine TJ was manufactured in October 2000, but it is a 2001 model!!!!!! All accessories and parts fit from 2001 model (yes, there is a slight difference between certain things halfway through 2000 manufacturing cycle).

[Fen]

It happens with most manufacturers. For the European ones it's because a lot of plants shut down in August for the summer holiday and they start the next year production when they open up again in September.

If you're interested in spec it's as TJ says; no 1996 model Wrangler (so the books are right), but some were actually built in 1996 to 1997 spec. Similarly the 1998 model production started in late 1997 and so on.

[xj]

It happens with most manufacturers. For the European ones it's because a lot of plants shut down in August for the summer holiday and they start the next year production when they open up again in September.

If you're interested in spec it's as TJ says; no 1996 model Wrangler (so the books are right), but some were actually built in 1996 to 1997 spec. Similarly the 1998 model production started in late 1997 and so on.

Which duely defies logic.... built in 1996, registered and driving on NZ roads in 1996, but not supposed to exist because it says so in a book......... must be a Jeep thing

[Flash2004]

This is all good, except you have it all wrong. 1997 models (as do each year model of every manufacturer in the USA) begin production in the second half of 1996 but are all marked as 1997. There should be no TJ on earth which has a 1996 datemark unless you've somehow ended up with a pre-production mule or prototype which should have been destroyed.

Try entering and decoding your vin on http://jeep.avtograd.ru/VIN/vin_en.asp and see what the reality is. It would be interesting if you cut and paste the result here.

Mine, registered here new as a 1999 Jeep renegade, comes up there as a 1998 Sahara built in Toledo as TJ says they all were.

My GMC though, sold new here in NZ in 2003, is registered as a 2001 because that must have been its build year. Not very confusing.... cheers,

[xj]

This is all good, except you have it all wrong. 1997 models (as do each year model of every manufacturer in the USA) begin production in the second half of 1996 but are all marked as 1997. T somehow ended up with a pre-production mule or prototype which should have been destroyed.

Try entering and decoding your vin on http://jeep.avtograd.ru/VIN/vin_en.asp and see what the reality is. It would be interesting if you cut and paste the result here.

Mine, registered here new as a 1999 Jeep renegade, comes up there as a 1998 Sahara built in Toledo as TJ says they all were.

My GMC though, sold new here in NZ in 2003, is registered as a 2001 because that must have been its build year. Not very confusing.... cheers,

Gordon - I dont have anything wrong. Facts are facts... it was driving on the roads in 1996, and registered as such. I know what its SUPPOSED to be, and how its SUPPOSED to work, any muppet with a computer and the internet can find what has been written over and over again, all reference books tell the same story, and yet here we are.......

You probably need to get something right too......

here should be no TJ on earth which has a 1996 datemark unless you've...

No "youve" about it, its not mine.
And again you assume too much here

Try entering and decoding your vin.

, again not mine.

As you have requested here is the vin number decoded.... and yes it says 1997.

1 1 Country: USA
2 J Manufacturer: Jeep (USA)
3 4 Type: MPV
4 F GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating ) : 1819-2272 kg
5 Y Model: Wrangler
6 N Series: 5-speed Manual Transmission (Europe)
7 9 Body type: Open Body
8 S Engine: 4,0 litres, I-6, HO
CONTROL NUMBER
10 V Year: 1997
11 P Plant: Toledo #2
BUILD NUMBER

[xj]

This is all good, except you have it all wrong. 1997 models (as do each year model of every manufacturer in the USA) begin production in the second half of 1996 but are all marked as 1997. T somehow ended up with a pre-production mule or prototype which should have been destroyed.

Try entering and decoding your vin on http://jeep.avtograd.ru/VIN/vin_en.asp and see what the reality is. It would be interesting if you cut and paste the result here.

Mine, registered here new as a 1999 Jeep renegade, comes up there as a 1998 Sahara built in Toledo as TJ says they all were.

My GMC though, sold new here in NZ in 2003, is registered as a 2001 because that must have been its build year. Not very confusing.... cheers,

Gordon - I dont have anything wrong. Facts are facts... it was driving on the roads in 1996, and registered as such. I know what its SUPPOSED to be, and how its SUPPOSED to work, any muppet with a computer and the internet can find what has been written over and over again, all reference books tell the same story, and yet here we are.......

You probably need to get something right too......

here should be no TJ on earth which has a 1996 datemark unless you've...

No "youve" about it, its not mine.
And again you assume too much here

Try entering and decoding your vin.

again not mine.

As you have requested here is the vin number decoded.... and yes it says 1997.

1 1 Country: USA
2 J Manufacturer: Jeep (USA)
3 4 Type: MPV
4 F GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating ) : 1819-2272 kg
5 Y Model: Wrangler
6 N Series: 5-speed Manual Transmission (Europe)
7 9 Body type: Open Body
8 S Engine: 4,0 litres, I-6, HO
CONTROL NUMBER
10 V Year: 1997
11 P Plant: Toledo #2
BUILD NUMBER

Im sure RJ will chime in here.......somewhere......

[Flash2004]

You assume sorry, who says I was referring to you being wrong? The reality is, you have a 1997 Wrangler and regardless of how its registered here,or what bureaucrat got what wrong, it is what it is. The NZ government is not the arbiter of the year of manufacture of any overseas built vehicle.As far as I know the local rules were recently changed to stop this sort of thing happening.

[xj]

You assume sorry, who says I was referring to you being wrong? and regardless of how its registered here,or what bureaucrat got what wrong, it is what it is. The NZ government is not the arbiter of the year of manufacture of any overseas built vehicle.As far as I know the local rules were recently changed to stop this sort of thing happening.

Read your first sentence.

This is all good, except you have it all wrong.

Unless you were referring to TJ, who in essence and by all the literature is correct, as you are, in what you say.

The reality is, you have a 1997 Wrangler

- and yet AGAIN - no i dont. You obviously havent gotten that bit yet aye?

I have never said that anyone is wrong about the issue, I have simply stated a fact which flies in the face of all the evidence. The only place it says its a 1997 is on the VIN. The reg papers, the door sticker, the date of compliance all say otherwise.

the NZ govt, who as you say NOT the arbiter, did the logical thing. A vehicle is bought into the country with a sticker from the manufacturer that says 1996, in 1996. Its going to be on the road in 1996.... why would you register it from 1997?

[RJ]

Hey team,

Yep xj is on the button. Our TJ was first registered in Dec 96.
A little strange I now believe, but thats what is stated on the papers.
Possibly some TJ's (or maybe just one) arrived here in late 96 for assembly and marketing, then were sold a little earlier than they should have been.

I guess the question should be other than ours when was the first TJ sold in NZ and how long was it actually here, prior to sale, for assembly.

[Flash2004]

Maybe they flew it in and made a fat profit by having the first one sold. In any case, by all authorities in the world, its a 97. If you buy a magazine in March which says April issue, wiuld you argue its really a March issue? Check them out, they all do it.

[TJ]

Hey team,

Yep xj is on the button. Our TJ was first registered in Dec 96.
A little strange I now believe, but thats what is stated on the papers.
Possibly some TJ's (or maybe just one) arrived here in late 96 for assembly and marketing, then were sold a little earlier than they should have been.

I guess the question should be other than ours when was the first TJ sold in NZ and how long was it actually here, prior to sale, for assembly.

As I said earlier, next year's model normally appear in the US market in autumn (around September) for October fleet sales. That means, re-tooling and actual production happens before July/August. Therefore, if yours was made in July or even August, it had enough time to be shipped to NZ and be available for sale in December 96 as the "next generation" Wrangler. There would have been a lot of interest in it given that YJ now gone.