Whats best for me?

[aotror]

I want to get another truck, since mine's now totalled and want some advice on what model is best for me.

Heres some of my priorities.

Economical running costs. I know that goes against the nature of the beasts but some are worse than others.

Durability / reliablity.

Reasonable off road ability - doesnt have to be a complete animal, but It has to be setup so I can cross rivers with out drowning it, and at least have a chance of getting out of sticky situations and not get bellied on rut's etc too easy, so a bit of a lift or height would be good and something with hopefully good departure / approach angles etc as standard.

Not too worried if the body isnt that flash, but it has to be mechanically a1 and have a good chance of getting though the next few warrants.

----
It's going to be my only car so it has to be suitable for that. What do you reccommend?

I saw the one below one on trade me. economy of $11 /100kms sounds a bit optimisitc I thought, or does that sound oK? Do the bigger tyres make much difference to the economy?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 994768.htm

P.S.. Not in any hurry cos I cant drive till my leg's working again.

Cheers.

glenn

[Steve_t647]

The link didn't work but what you need is a shopping list to fill out and see what you end up with, it depends on your drivina and equiptment level you want

Petrol / Diesel
Auto / Manual
v8 / Turbo diesel
Standard / Modified
PTO Winch / Electric winch / None
standard / 31" / 33" / Larger Tyres
2 door / 4 door / 5 door / ute
Touring / Offroading / Hardcore (I built it and I am happy not to repair stuff during a trip and very happy to not break anything)
Aircon / Manual (windows)
Fits in Garage / Never fit in parking building
Toyota / Landrover / Toyota / Jeep / Toyota / Suzuki / Toyota / nissan / Toyota

There are a lot of 4wd's out there that could do what you want and there are a few limitations
Toyota Surf with solid axle swap like Hose Hussler has done viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13066 Very nice truck
Toyota Landcruiser
Toyota Prado
Toyota FJ40
Toyota surf with IFS (until you break it and do the solid axle)
Landrover Disco tdi or v8 nice coil sprung but you will eventualy find you need to upgrade the diffs if going hardcore
Landrover 90 tdi and V8
Jeep Wrangler (Lots of bits available from the US) May need to swap diffs as some soft spec's come to NZ
Jeep Cherokee (Lots of bits availble from the US IFS and no chassis as such)
Suzuki (nice and light)
Nissan (cough) Patrol

It depends on what you want to do, where you want to get to and who you are going with, the more extreme the 4wd the more extreme the track you drive the more risk and better you have to be at driving. I have been offroading where people fell off the track and it took hours to get the 4wd back and the injured tidied up and back into a 4wd.

You will find any 4wd driven by a good driver will go further than the monster 4wd driven by a clown I have seen a standard Suzuki on 31's out drive a twin locked Nissan safari and a VX cruiser both on 35's and it was all down to the driver, the alternator eventualy failed on the Safari.

Whatever you get you will have to learn to drive it, if you get a monster truck you will need to learn to drive it and go more hard core as you gain experience and confidence, if unsure ask how to attack something. It is better to be seen as cautious than look silly, get stuck and have people not want to go on trips with you.

Whatever you get make sure you have your own recovery gear, rated hooks and well mounted.

Edit: to add another Toyota

[vvega]

The link didn't work but what you need is a shopping list to fill out and see what you end up with, it depends on your drivina and equiptment level you want

Petrol / Diesel
Auto / Manual
v8 / Turbo diesel
Standard / Modified
PTO Winch / Electric winch / None
standard / 31" / 33" / Larger Tyres
2 door / 4 door / 5 door / ute
Touring / Offroading / Hardcore (I built it and I am happy not to repair stuff during a trip and very happy to not break anything)
Aircon / Manual (windows)
Fits in Garage / Never fit in parking building
Toyota / Landrover / Toyota / Jeep / Toyota / Suzuki / Toyota / nissan / Toyota

There are a lot of 4wd's out there that could do what you want and there are a few limitations
Toyota Surf with solid axle swap like Hose Hussler has done viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13066 Very nice truck
Toyota Landcruiser
Toyota Prado
Toyota FJ40
Toyota surf with IFS (until you break it and do the solid axle)
Landrover Disco tdi or v8 nice coil sprung but you will eventualy find you need to upgrade the diffs if going hardcore
Landrover 90 tdi and V8
Jeep Wrangler (Lots of bits available from the US) May need to swap diffs as some soft spec's come to NZ
Jeep Cherokee (Lots of bits availble from the US IFS and no chassis as such)
Suzuki (nice and light)
Nissan (cough) Patrol

It depends on what you want to do, where you want to get to and who you are going with, the more extreme the 4wd the more extreme the track you drive the more risk and better you have to be at driving. I have been offroading where people fell off the track and it took hours to get the 4wd back and the injured tidied up and back into a 4wd.

You will find any 4wd driven by a good driver will go further than the monster 4wd driven by a clown I have seen a standard Suzuki on 31's out drive a twin locked Nissan safari and a VX cruiser both on 35's and it was all down to the driver, the alternator eventualy failed on the Safari.

Whatever you get you will have to learn to drive it, if you get a monster truck you will need to learn to drive it and go more hard core as you gain experience and confidence, if unsure ask how to attack something. It is better to be seen as cautious than look silly, get stuck and have people not want to go on trips with you.

Whatever you get make sure you have your own recovery gear, rated hooks and well mounted.

Edit: to add another Toyota

good advice
and
toyota fo lyfe















toyota

[aotror]

The link didn't work but what you need is a shopping list to fill out and see what you end up with, it depends on your drivina and equiptment level you want

Petrol / Diesel
Auto / Manual
v8 / Turbo diesel
Standard / Modified
PTO Winch / Electric winch / None
standard / 31" / 33" / Larger Tyres
2 door / 4 door / 5 door / ute
Touring / Offroading / Hardcore (I built it and I am happy not to repair stuff during a trip and very happy to not break anything)
Aircon / Manual (windows)
Fits in Garage / Never fit in parking building
Toyota / Landrover / Toyota / Jeep / Toyota / Suzuki / Toyota / nissan / Toyota

There are a lot of 4wd's out there that could do what you want and there are a few limitations
Toyota Surf with solid axle swap like Hose Hussler has done viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13066 Very nice truck
Toyota Landcruiser
Toyota Prado
Toyota FJ40
Toyota surf with IFS (until you break it and do the solid axle)
Landrover Disco tdi or v8 nice coil sprung but you will eventualy find you need to upgrade the diffs if going hardcore
Landrover 90 tdi and V8
Jeep Wrangler (Lots of bits available from the US) May need to swap diffs as some soft spec's come to NZ
Jeep Cherokee (Lots of bits availble from the US IFS and no chassis as such)
Suzuki (nice and light)
Nissan (cough) Patrol

It depends on what you want to do, where you want to get to and who you are going with, the more extreme the 4wd the more extreme the track you drive the more risk and better you have to be at driving. I have been offroading where people fell off the track and it took hours to get the 4wd back and the injured tidied up and back into a 4wd.

You will find any 4wd driven by a good driver will go further than the monster 4wd driven by a clown I have seen a standard Suzuki on 31's out drive a twin locked Nissan safari and a VX cruiser both on 35's and it was all down to the driver, the alternator eventualy failed on the Safari.

Whatever you get you will have to learn to drive it, if you get a monster truck you will need to learn to drive it and go more hard core as you gain experience and confidence, if unsure ask how to attack something. It is better to be seen as cautious than look silly, get stuck and have people not want to go on trips with you.

Whatever you get make sure you have your own recovery gear, rated hooks and well mounted.

Edit: to add another Toyota

Thanks Steve.. there's load of good advice in there but I'm still not sure.

I have a lot of information/hearsay sloshing around in my head which confuses the matter. It's not helped by people's toyota/nissan / whatever biases. I personally think they are probably both pretty good brands, but depends on what model and how used or modified the particular truck is and how much maintenance / abuse its had. A knackered Toyota wont be as good as a well serviced cheaper model etc..

I quite like the idea of a swb patrol, but slightly concerend with rumours of a possibility of chassis weakness near the steering box and other places. This seems to have been reported often enough to make me think there is smoke where there is fire.Also teh running costs. The trademe link that I put in the original post was for a Nissan patrol which sounded Ok.. had a few mods etc but the guy said it had good economy 4.2 diesel i think. Sounded a bit optimisitc. I thik he said it would do 11 dollars of fuel for 100 km. Thats a fair bit less than my terrano on a run, and its a shitload bigger engine and heavier truck.. so smelt of BS. Then again it had bigger wheels so maybe that helped it.. What do you think?

Also the dog and lemon guide, while praising the nissans to a degree, said the toyotas were probably more reliable as proved by the users in the aussie outback have proven.. I tend to give that comment credence, because when I worked in the mines over there, toyotas were the vehicle of choice.. mostly 70 series landcruisers. The bodies used to rust a bit because of some of the chemicals and salt in the mines but the were pretty bulletproof otherwise, and we did try to kill them. Nissans were ok but didnt seem as popular.

Someone told me the old prados were probably OK becuase they had 70 series running gear.. sounds good.. and they seem pretty cheap but I think they (and the 70 series) fail the gas guzzler test of my selection criteria. I mean 14 mpg is OK by yank standards.. but it couel be a lot better. Even the Dog and Lemon guide list the nissan patrol at 23 MPG (2.8 td version). Althought the 2.8 is in teh avoid category because of engine probs. To be fair I think they rate the 4.0 non turbo 70 series model at 23 MPG.. whats that one like for reliablity and grunt etc? Maybe thats what I shoudl get.

My old man had a mitsubishi "wanker" pajero (2.5 td) which i think he only paid about 1000 bucks for. I am sort of temped to just take someting like that and buy two of them to get the life i might otherwise get out of a more expensive 4wd. Also have the bonuse of having a spare if one gets wiped out like my last one!.
They always seemed nice to drive and quite comfortable, but seem to have A bit of a delicate reputation in some circles.

The Jeeps sound too unreliable for models in my price bracket,

Rocky's / pajero (small model, cant remember the name) / suzuki vitara etc, all sound a bit insubstantial. I like at least a bit of meat around me, not a glorified suzuki alto on stilts. May as well get a motorbike and be done with it, although Im sure they do ok on sand and in some thick stuff.

The surfs seem OK too.. but sounds like they are either real gas guzzlers for the more affordable ones or sometimes dodgy at higher milages for some of the dielsel ones, esp 2.4.
Can't remember what mode of hilux it was I used to drive in OZ but it was SEVERELY gutless. I dont need to be doing burnouts but I do need some kind of margin of saftey when overtaking etc. If its anyslower than my old terrano (2.7d)I would not want it.

Speaking of which. NOt many people seem to talk about the more modern terrano's.. like the post 95 models.. the 3.0 an 3.2.. what are they like for grunt, offroad ability and economy?

Also.. the isuzu bighornds etc.. they seem to have an ok rep but dont know much about them..

[Steve_t647]

All the trucks but one jeep have a solid ladder chassis and seperate body attached, the Nissan is a pretty big thing and heavy, dont get me wrong these can be advantages but you need to lift it to fit bigger tyres and use offroad. The Isusu early (boxy shape) have a chassis the newer ones went light weight and monocoque (sp).

Your nissan folded like it did because the body and chassis were one, you would have probibly done severe damage to anything hitting that concrete but would be better off with some.

Out of the box a Disco or a 90 turbo diesel will be a good option in the rivers they let water in pretty quick but I like Toyota for their relyability I own a pretty standard Hilux Ute, I do like what Hosehusler has done to the Toyota Surf this is a mid weight 4wd and running 33" tyres (the same diff clearance as a Suzuki on 31's, or a VX or Safari on 35's)

The VX and Safari are not the most economical because of their weight but the Toyota 24 valve diesel gives you the power if tuned right, personaly I would suggest trying a Prado and Surf, with any diesel I would also tell you to run an exhaust pyro guage, this tells you how hot the engine exhaust (and engine is) now, and if on a long climb you see 900 odd deg it can be 5 minutes before the water temp registers that if it even does. Most comercial trucks and diggers are driven on the pyro and 30 seconds not pushing as hard can bring the engine temps down and you are away.

There is a couple of long steady climbs near chch that to the driver feel like nothing but do make the engine work more one out near the mud house and I have blown a radiator there, after it blew the water temp jumped

My choices would be:
Light Weight just for fun Suzuki
Mid Weight (comfort) I would go 1kz Surf and solid axle, for function I own a Hilux Solid Axle all leaf sprung so no nice ride quality. You may prefer the more upright sitting position in a Prado, just be more gentle in reverse as the front is high pinion.
Heavy well it is close but I like the VX 24 valve engine and the fact you can lift them easy and don't have the stupid drum brake handbrake on the driveshaft system that Nissan has weigh a little less and have pretty good interiors.

If I win Lotto, I would get a FJ40 with a holden V8, VX Cruiser gearbox and running gear under it stretch the wheelbase and a VX Cruiser 24 valve to tow it to and from the tracks

No 4wd is ever perfect write the list and find what best suits you, there are things I put up with in the Hilux because it is so useful in other areas.

[Atomant]

I have a couple of trucks, 1 is a 70 series cruiser and the other is a stock standard Vitara. The Zook was the first I brought and it is a 1600cc motor and has AT tyres on it. I went on a couple of trips in it and it outpreformed some of the big boys in the heavy trucks, the only thing it has against it is the ride height, hang ups are common. Fuel economy is excellent as the thing only weighs 970kg. Some simple mods can be done to fix height issue though. Some of them are zipping round on 31- 32 inchs rubber now. Having said that the cruiser has power when its needed, ride height is good. Fuel economy isn't flash on MT's but its only a toy not a daily runner. It's solid and tough. The Zook is strictly and on road wagon now and the cruiser is the toy of choice.

[Taz]

I quite like the idea of a swb patrol, but slightly concerend with rumours of a possibility of chassis weakness near the steering box and other places. This seems to have been reported often enough to make me think there is smoke where there is fire.Also teh running costs. The trademe link that I put in the original post was for a Nissan patrol which sounded Ok.. had a few mods etc but the guy said it had good economy 4.2 diesel i think. Sounded a bit optimisitc. I thik he said it would do 11 dollars of fuel for 100 km. Thats a fair bit less than my terrano on a run, and its a shitload bigger engine and heavier truck.. so smelt of BS. Then again it had bigger wheels so maybe that helped it.. What do you think?

From what I have read TD28's are know to be thirsty little buggers, which are a common motor in terranos and lower spec safaris. TD42's obviously couldn't be called hybrid motors , but if you do a bit of open road driving they aren't really all that bad on economy.

If you looking at newer terranos, stay away from anything with a ZD30 'hand grenade'. Google or search http://www.patrol4x4.com if you want to read why.

Like Steve said Surfs get good diff clearance compared to the bigger trucks with bigger running gear but the downside is everything is weaker. If your just goin to fang down the beach and that then it doesn't really matter. I'd try to find an nz new 4runner surf with the 2.8's rather than settle for a 2.4 as far as Surfs go. Have a mate who drives like a nana and has still popped three 2lt-e's

Have you thought about looking for another terrano with some mods already done to it? If you get the same model as your old one then you already have a few spares for it...

[DaveM]

From what I have read TD28's are know to be thirsty little buggers, which are a common motor in terranos and lower spec safaris. TD42's obviously couldn't be called hybrid motors , but if you do a bit of open road driving they aren't really all that bad on economy.

This is a new one to me, I know of the TD27 in the Terrano and the RD28T in the Safari but have never seen a Terrano motor in a Safari

[Safari Swb]

i have owned both the 4.2 and 2.8 turbo safaris. the 2.8 turbo does go better than the 4.2, however the 2.8 relies on the turbo . both were very cheap to run, i never bothered to work out how many k's per litre i get, but very economical, as for the weakness of the chassis, ive never read of it, but wouldnt worry about it, thier still solid vehicles

[Bubba]

After seeing what you did yo your last wagen I would suggest you buy nothing more than a skateboard buddy. See you at the Dawin Awards buddy

[PR]

Good one Bubba as I was going to suggest a CAT bulldozer as it moves slower and wont think anything of that jump you found but in all Seriousness a crusier or safari might be the way to go

[Taz]

From what I have read TD28's are know to be thirsty little buggers, which are a common motor in terranos and lower spec safaris. TD42's obviously couldn't be called hybrid motors , but if you do a bit of open road driving they aren't really all that bad on economy.

This is a new one to me, I know of the TD27 in the Terrano and the RD28T in the Safari but have never seen a Terrano motor in a Safari

Woops your quite right, and I'm quite wrong!

[Andrew1706]

I own an 80 Series Landcruiser with the 1HDT which is the 12 valve turbo 4.2. The thing weighs close to 3 tonnes and people are surprised when I tell them I get 10L/100kms and with diesel @ $1.009/ litre then $10 per 100ks isn't out of the question.

90 litre tank, when the fuel light comes on I usually fill 70 litres and I've travelled 700kms +/- 50kms. Doing one weekend on the beach through the dunes I would quite often fill 70 litres @ 500kms. Sand sucks a bit of fuel, I was on 31 road tyres too.

I've since upped the pump, boost and gone to 35" tires and I'm yet to test the milage but I can't imagine it'll change too much, these motors handle the jandle with ease.

4 door long wheelbase is handy, I've been up the beach numerous times and the tides been too dangerous or the weathers packed in so fold up the rear seats chuck the mattress down in the back and have a few bevvys or a kip then carry on.

Also those nights when I've had a few too many to drink, they are very comfortable for sleeping in

[DaveM]

In all honesty, if the prices were the same, I'd go for a VX over a GQ Safari

[PR]

In all honesty, if the prices were the same, I'd go for a VX over a GQ Safari

So would I but dont tell anyone

[wopass]

If I win Lotto, I would get a FJ40 with a holden V8, VX Cruiser gearbox and running gear under it stretch the wheelbase and a VX Cruiser 24 valve to tow it to and from the tracks

i have that except for the vx gearbox in the 40, i have a 4spd in that still ...and its chev powered to...

and i diddnt win lotto either just got a heafty bank loan

[aotror]

After seeing what you did yo your last wagen I would suggest you buy nothing more than a skateboard buddy. See you at the Dawin Awards buddy

That's if you're not too busy resitting your School Cert english exam to make it.

[aotror]

Your nissan folded like it did because the body and chassis were one, you would have probibly done severe damage to anything hitting that concrete but would be better off with some.

Out of the box a Disco or a 90 turbo diesel will be a good option in the rivers they let water in pretty quick but I like Toyota for their relyability I own a pretty standard Hilux Ute, I do like what Hosehusler has done to the Toyota Surf this is a mid weight 4wd and running 33" tyres (the same diff clearance as a Suzuki on 31's, or a VX or Safari on 35's)

The VX and Safari are not the most economical because of their weight but the Toyota 24 valve diesel gives you the power if tuned right, personaly I would suggest trying a Prado and Surf, with any diesel

My choices would be:
Light Weight just for fun Suzuki
Mid Weight (comfort) I would go 1kz Surf and solid axle, for function I own a Hilux Solid Axle all leaf sprung so no nice ride quality. You may prefer the more upright sitting position in a Prado, just be more gentle in reverse as the front is high pinion.
Heavy well it is close but I like the VX 24 valve engine and the fact you can lift them easy and don't have the stupid drum brake handbrake on the driveshaft system that Nissan has weigh a little less and have pretty good interiors.
.

I thought my model of Terrano had a full chassis and the smoother shaped (post 95) ones that came after had the unibody chassis?
Considering it hit sold concrete I think it did OK really..

The disco's sound good off road and not bad vehicles until the "discovery" that they are not very reliable. Don't want that kind of headache. It has to be Jap.

Suzi's are just too tinny for me. If I wanted a purely offroad toy I'd go for one but the thought of sitting in one from here to Nelson or Haast, engine buzzing away, being buffeted around by winds doesn't appeal. Maybe they have gotten better but that's my memories of the one's I have been in in the past.

Surf's sound OK, but for how much lighter they are than the Patrol's and VX's it seems you dont really get that much benefit in fuel economy, 'cause some of them seem to be right guzzlers. I think I'd rather opt for one that won't break so easy and still get the same milage from it.

The prados sound OK.. but the modern ones are more than I want to pay and the old ones are guzzlers if I understand it correctly.

[aotror]

I own an 80 Series Landcruiser with the 1HDT which is the 12 valve turbo 4.2. The thing weighs close to 3 tonnes and people are surprised when I tell them I get 10L/100kms and with diesel @ $1.009/ litre then $10 per 100ks isn't out of the question.

From what Ive seen the Patrol's do seem a bit cheaper for what you get/equivalent year etc.
This one seems an ok price and not too high milage but it doesn't have a picture and says for sale as is where is, so I'm waiting for the catch..

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 393202.htm

That milage that you mentioned is mostly open road by the sound of it. How much do you get around town ?

[Andrew1706]

That is around town driving, 5 speed manual though which is not so common and I think the autos use more.

Most VX cruisers are overpriced, if you can pick that one up for that sort of price you would be sorted.

[aotror]

Not really interested in this one, but how much would it cost to get a standard one to this state?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 296934.htm

any ideas?

Is it any good or just for show? seems like that exhaust etc could be a liability. Almost too tidy.

[Nick555]

I also have an 80 cruiser 12 valve 4.2 turb. Its done close to 300 thousand ks and still going strong with no issues. When ive been playing at the waimak with some mates who have pretty much factory hiluxs(same as the cruiser) i spend a bit of time pulling them out. The cruiser handles alot of the stuff better than their trucks. My 2 cents
They also can pull a house if ya get sick of ya nabours

[DaveM]

You have to remember when buying thorugh TM, that if its an auction, they are "as is" anyway, you have no comeback even if its from a licenced dealer

[Steve_t647]

Again it comes down to what you want the lighter Hilux and Surfs etc can have issues in mud where they "float" and rivers if you are pushing up stream but they are lighter so generaly have better economy, the big VX and Safari's are great trucks but they are big and parking and the young lady you date will not like them.

Cost per KM on a VX in diesel alone is not quite the whole picture if you use it offroad, the larger tyres are more expencive, wear slightly faster with the extra weight, require modifications to fit larger tyres. I like them but I don't tow a boat caravan or trailer often enough that the extra power and weight would give it the advantage, also you have to be careful what diesel ticket you are on as the police are getting more picky.

The more aggressive tyres work well on the lighter trucks if they clear them on the larger VX you can dig yourself in, and at the end of the day it comes down to the driver. I could get my standard Hilux some places others didn't believe because it was light, now i don't have as much technique as if I make a mistake the modifications will usualy make up for it

Honestly it is up to you to choose the vehicle a VX cruiser comes with high specifications and airbag's, the patrol doesn't until recently. Both are big and you can't see around them as easily and a reversing camera is a good option.

You can get a thirsty anything if it has not been maintained, take it to Toyota for a pre purchase check and they will tell you all the error codes etc and what sensors need replaced, a 1kz that was horribly inefficient (they were going to get Subaru badges) went in for service and it is now running better than the 2.8 3L Normaly Asperated in their other hilux Everyone thought the 1kz would be thirstier but it is not working as hard

[rangimotors]

spend half of what you have on a truck and keep the other half for mods, what ever you buy you will need to maintain it and improve it as you go.

[Bubba]

Buy your old truck and park it in your driveway, then go out and make broom broom noises in it.

That way you won't hurt you or anybody else, much cheaper too.... I know I know, I'm a prick but you have to admit, it wasn't you best moment and you have to expect some piss-take because of it

[Mud Hog]

Fully agree with that ,I have spent more than half and still heaps more to do!!!

spend half of what you have on a truck and keep the other half for mods, what ever you buy you will need to maintain it and improve it as you go.

[aotror]

Buy your old truck and park it in your driveway, then go out and make broom broom noises in it.

That way you won't hurt you or anybody else, much cheaper too.... I know I know, I'm a prick but you have to admit, it wasn't you best moment and you have to expect some piss-take because of it

Yeah yeah I know.. I must endure this period of disrespect as pennance for my sins..although your piss take feels more like a back massage compared to some of the pain this has caused..
The beauty is that I can sit back and wait for YOU to slip up then bask in the glory of the revenge piss take.. even better!

tick, tock, tick , tock, tick, tock,...