dunedin tracks whats happened

[baxter]

im mite whip a email off to the chch council and get them to give me a brief outline of what they have done up there

Aye, ask their Regional Council as well.


They have great angler access to areas there too.

[baxter]

Here's my drafty version:


We ask the DCC and/or ORC to make available specific areas for 4x4 recreation, and notes that:
-Without such official areas less scrupulous 4x4ers will cause damage in protected areas,
-Christchurch/Canterbury offers excellent official 4x4 and angling recreation and access areas that could be used as a model,
-The DCC/ORC has a duty to protect public access to areas.

[2roky]

i'd personally leave the orc out as they have a large area in which people can and do go down in the tailings at alexandra both below the clock and in behind the pine plantation down around the edge of the river. id just focus on the dcc
thats purely just my opinion though

[baxter]

Yeah, handy to know.

But that does nothing in the ORC's area where most people live (ie around Dunedin), I'd still petition them for such.

[2roky]

my bad sorry i was thinking of the central district council

[surf_tomo]

Here's my drafty version:


We ask the DCC and/or ORC to make available specific areas for 4x4 recreation, and notes that:
-Without such official areas less scrupulous 4x4ers will cause damage in protected areas,
-Christchurch/Canterbury offers excellent official 4x4 and angling recreation and access areas that could be used as a model,
-The DCC/ORC has a duty to protect public access to areas.

Sounds good so far. A outline from chch council would be good too. What should we do next? get together and start putting some signatures and opinions together?

[EDDY]

mahinerangi was all good till they took a digger 2 the tracks. not 2 shaw about the cameras up there tho, i no there is definitely 1 at whare flat.

[PeterVahry]

Check out what the Western Bay of Plenty are doing with their TECT All Terrain Park. A good example for any local authority.
www.westernbay.govt.nz/Major-Projects/T ... rain-Park/

[2roky]

that sounds like a bloody good idea that does. and what do ya know the dcc already owns a lot of land as forestry. with enough encouragement (maybe try to get the nz4wd ass. behind us) might be able to get some thing similar opened up

[baxter]

That sounds great. I's so good I'm staggered that it's run by a local authority.

Other example of local bodies 4x4 recreation areas or facilitating access to forests etc would be great.

[BJ71]

Hi Guys,

This is all great discussion and some good ideas,

If you want some NZFWDA support/back up/ representation let me know.

If you can get me what you know, info you have, issues you want advocated etc on szpro@nzfwda.org.nz i can see what we can do

Cheers

Tony Jack
Southern Zone PRO
NZFWDA

[2roky]

heres the reply i got from my email to the ccc (chch council)

Dear Cameron,
Thank you for your online website enquiry regarding four wheel vehicles.

Four wheel vehicles are not allowed in any CCC parks, reserves or beaches, please see the link below

http://www.ccc.govt.nz/QuickAnswers/ArtRecreation/WaterSports/F1690.asp

If you have any further queries, please reply to this email or call our Customer Services Team on 941 8999.

Kind Regards,
Davina
Customer Services Administrator
Customer Services Unit
DDI: 03 941 8999
Fax: 03 941 8033
Email: ccc_customerservices@ccc.govt.nz
Web: http://www.ccc.govt.nz

MSC House,
92 Lichfield Street, Christchurch
PO Box 237, Christchurch 8140

[baxter]

Must be their regional council that does them...?

[Bulletproof]

Over the years I have run alot of trips on Nelson City Council land for the Nelson 4x4 club.
Many of the Council tracks are shared by walkers and mountain bikers and for that reason they limit access " By permit only to clubs" .

I just ring up and tell them on a certain date I want to run a trip and it is never a problem.

When a gate is locked and a club goes in if any damage results they know who has done it. If it is open to the public no one is held responsible so it is easy to see why areas are locked off.

Because many tracks are through forestry they want to know if our insurance is up to date and that we have spark arrestors fitted.

Alot of 4 wheelers are apathetic with the DOC CMS review documents as well so it is no wonder access is being denied. Some CMS documents have only received 4 submissions from 4 wheel drivers.

Cheers Richard

[2roky]

ive read a few things and by the sounds of it going to have to try and get the 4x4 clubs behind us as well as the national 4wd as.
also we're going to have to do a fair bit of research about impacts on a area, how we can minimise them and what not. also will have to look into the damage being caused in the areas that shouldnt be being used for 4wding and use the negative side of it to try and reinforce the good that a set aside area would do for these areas. if that makes sense

[PeterVahry]

Ok, to get an idea of the type of response that can occur, at the end of the linked page below is part of a recent evaluation project that the Auckland Regional Council commissioned (at a cost of $65,000). They did survey the clubs as was understood from the initial meetings we had, but then internally decided to create this document and run a telephone survey of assorted Aucklanders. We have not seen the questions asked or the outcomes.

You will need to be prepared to respond to this type of document... in fact you may even be faced with the same one as it is likely most regional councils will know of the Auckland process. In Auckland we protested at the implication that we had been consulted about 'impacts' and a response can be found on http://www.auckland4wd.org.nz/visitors/ ... stnews.asp

[baxter]

Stumbled upon this: http://www.nzfwda.org.nz/?module=upload ... d&fileId=7 from 2007.

I wonder if there was any outcomes?

[2roky]

we still going to do something bout this subject or we just going to leave it?

another option is we try to find a cocky that will let us use his land make a we bit of an ORE and assoiciates grounds?

[PeterVahry]

Have you talked yet with the local regional council? Of course the Otago Land Rover Club have an interesting block of land.

[2roky]

not as yet we need to get everyone to gether and sus out a plan of attack i think

[surf_tomo]

Wonder if there are any willing farmers our the taieri/hindon/ mungatuas/ mahinarangi areas.

Definitally still keen, yes i think we should meet up and sort out a plan of attack, just give me a week or so (exams).

Tomo.

[2roky]

there possibly would be one somewhere. would have to draw up a draft contract of what we were wanting to do and then every persons that enters the property would have to sign it. which should in turn waver the land owner from any osh claims/problems as we would have entered the place knowing the risks.

also would have to approch them in person to ask and maybe offer to pay a small fee per vehicle of no more than $20 for each visit. this would have to give us pretty much unlimited access all year appart from during times of farming operations such as lambing.

also we would have to have a look at the propertys to see if they had suitable areas as many of the places are small and steep. also cut farm trucks we would have to stay off as im sure the cocky wouldnt be wanting to get stuck just goin to check his stock every so often.

just a few ideas i been playing with

[PeterVahry]

Ah, if only it was that simple! You can't contract out of health and safety rules and as another catch... if a property owner is being paid a fee for providing access/recreation, then under OSH rules that person becomes responsible for those people paying... ie liable under OSH.

The maintenance of 4x4 routes is a consideration too. Under the RMA there are requirements to manage silt/water and no property owner wants to be pinged with penalties.
The local RMA rules will probably only permit limited recreation use of a farm property without the correct zoning or permits (money).

It can be done, but it is often easier to only use a variety of locations infrequently to avoid drawing attention and perhaps finding a way to donate any fee to the landowners favourite charity or local school etc.

Talk with Land Rover Owners Otago about the process involved with their land.

[2roky]

cheers will take all that into consideration.
as for the osh stuff with uni we all have to sign i safety form before going on any feild trips this outlines any and all dangers related to a property and if we get hurt through our own stupidity the cocky is in the clear as he has outline any dangers to us

[Armz]

I really dont think that a petition will work to be honest, just my 2c,I doubt that we can really get the support,

Im be keen to help out thou, try get a bit of a ore dunners club going,

[2roky]

yeh im thinking that as well im happy to go door knocking to get signitures. but im starting to think that a bit of an unoffical group and a bit of land that we can use somewhere close to town might be more the go.

think we need to have a meeting sometime in the next few weeks to sus out what we're going to do and throw a few ideas around

[Armz]

think we need to have a meeting sometime in the next few weeks to sus out what we're going to do and throw a few ideas around

Im defently down for that, im all for seting up a group with a bunch of trucks to get out a do some tracks and have a good play.

I no thats why people join clubs but to be honest I cant be bothered with the crap that comes with clubs

[2roky]

yeh ive heard that if i was to join a club i probly wouldnt be able to use me daihatsu as its not road legal. so they wont let me take it on trips. and theres no way im going out and rooting me prado everytime i want to go some where.
allthough they do get access to some really cool areas and having the insurance helps alot too if they damage land through fire etc.

[Armz]

Does anyone know what the status is off the Foresty block just north off Evansdale I think the settlements called - just north Waitati is?

Ive been told its Transit owned, and 4x4s a definitely playing in there, there are no gates or signs or anything, We went to go for a quick explore to see if it was any good after hearing about it about a month ago on a way back from another mission. But we turned back after 500m as we decicded that if we kept going we would proberly spend the night there as the track was starting to get very muddy, entertaining and fun

[2roky]

i sent an email to the DCC say this:

To whom it may concern

Im writing on behalf of an unofficial four wheel driving group that is based here in Dunedin. We aren’t members of a club and have no ties to the national association we are just a group of general Dunedin residents after information on places and areas that the council allows four wheel driving to occur. Please do not respond with there is none need to join a club as for many of us we have no want to join a club.

If there are no areas to go who would we have to talk to about trying to get the few tracks that were here a few years ago opened up and or a public area for us to go to opened up. We could most probably get general public support for an area to be opened up. Which should in turn help alleviate the damage that is being cause by a minority of drivers around whare flat road, Mt Cargill and other similar areas.



Your help in finding somewhere would be much appreciated. If you cant help can you please put me in contact with the community advisor who can



Yours truly, Cameron maxwell


i have just received this reply from them

Cameron your request has come to me to answer

The Dunedin City Council does not have a policy on providing areas for four wheel drive vehicles. The most recent actions by Council in 2005 and 2007 have in fact restricted access to some areas and certain activities.

In 2007 the Council implemented a bylaw to restrict motorised vehicles on unformed legal roads after considering the issues below.
§ The public do have a right to use these roads but not to damage them or interfere with other users.

§ The actions of some vehicle users are effectively making unformed roads impassable for non-motorised users and intruding on the quality of life for adjacent residents.

§ The impact of this damage on the ability of people walking, cycling or horse-riding to use the tracks, the erosion and drainage issues that resulted from the rutted and muddy surfaces, and the general nuisance for adjacent residents from motor vehicles that had become stuck or abandoned on the tracks.

The Reserves Act 1977 requires the Council to protect and enhance our reserves. The Council adopted the Reserve by laws 2005 that restrict certain activities on reserves, it is an offence to breach these by laws. Specific actives mentioned in the by laws are activities:

§ “that causes any damage to any part of a reserve including the ground surface of the reserve, any plants in the reserve and any building, structure or fixtures thereon;

§ “Driving or riding any vehicle (including bicycles), on any part of any reserve except upon parts which have been clearly set aside for such purposes;” These access ways are clearly marked and maintained to an appropriate standard.

Regular feedback to the Council suggests that there is low public tolerance for vehicle damage on reserves. You indicate that you are unwilling to join the existing club which has land and is given access to private land as it has built a reputation over the years. The council would prefer to work with organised groups. Forming an organisation and seeking access to private land seems your best course of action.


Paul Coffey
Community Advisor, Community and Recreation Services
Dunedin City Council

50 The Octagon, Dunedin 9016; PO Box 5045, Dunedin 9058, New Zealand
Telephone 03-477 4000 Fax: 03-474 3789
Email: paul.coffey@dcc.govt.nz; http://www.dunedin.govt.nz

to which i have replied:

Thank you for your reply would the council ever consider setting up a terrain park on some of its land ie forestry blocks for this type of recreation, and other more extreme past times. I know the bay of plenty is creating one that is going to cater for many of the minorities that the general public do not like.

http://www.westernbay.govt.nz/Major-Projects/T ... rain-Park/ this is the public front for that park that I know of. I think some thing like this would suit dunedin’s population well.



I can understand why the tracks were closed but in doing so it has caused damage to start happening in areas that it really shouldn’t as the 4x4 owners now have no where to go to fill in a hour or so after work so they start making new tracks in what to me are fairly high profile areas. I also know that the abbots hill track will over grow with gorse within a couple of years unless a machine is run down it with a mulcher on it. 4wders have as of late been keeping this track open by pushing the scrub that hangs over the track out of the way.



As for the clubs to many they are not an option either due to finical reasons, ethics, or they plain just don’t want to be associated to them. As well as that there isn’t free access to them. The grounds are only open once a month.



Would it be at all possible to secure a meeting with you for my self and a few others who are interested in this particular matter for sometime in the next month were we could discuss the issues faced here perhaps come up with a few possible solutions that would satistfy both parties?


we will need to catch up have a beer and throw a few well though out ideas together showing both the positives and negatives to us and what we can do to minimize any problems etc.

im away for a few weeks working but can make it down at weekends if that would suit as a time for a meeting and a beverage or two