safaripete wrote:do you have extended shackles in the front?? as the caster could be put out
my 40 is the same as i put 6" shackles in and its a cu*t on the road
if you go to the vtnz for a wof they dont road test them so how would they know the guys i get my wfs thru they drive the cars for brake check and steering at a guess
Yip I do have extended shackles but they were in place prior to doing the PS swap and it used to return to centre fine. I'll check the preload adjustment on the box and I should get a wheel alignment sorted - I was just waiting until it was all cert'd in case things needed to come apart.
So, for those in the know... if I just buy new discs how do you get the studs out without damaging them. When I had the hub apart the other day I undid the two retaining bolts and tried hammering out one of the studs but I could tell it was just going to damage the stud. Do you:
- heat things up?
- buy new studs?
or is there a correct way to remove the studs from the hub/disc?
cooksworld wrote:So, for those in the know... if I just buy new discs how do you get the studs out without damaging them. When I had the hub apart the other day I undid the two retaining bolts and tried hammering out one of the studs but I could tell it was just going to damage the stud. Do you:
- heat things up?
- buy new studs?
or is there a correct way to remove the studs from the hub/disc?
they should hammer out, just make sure you put a nut on to protect the threads.
mickey wrote:they should hammer out, just make sure you put a nut on to protect the threads.
Yeah I did that but didn't smack it enough to get the stud out. I'll pull everything off again and give it a good whack I think I'll just put on new discs and get the job done.
Right... picked up one of the new discs last night (the guy selling them left the other one at his work) and pulled apart the RHS hub yet again. With the help of a much heavier sledge hammer I got all the studs out without too much fuss. Everything went back together nicely and the drivers side is ready to roll. Picked up the other disc this morning from his work and I'll put the LHS back together tonight. Everything's apart... just waiting on the disc. I'll also pick up the roll cage padding this avo.
Steering geometry
Now, I trying to learn all about steering to sort my steering return to centre problem... what are the chances that the caster could be related to the 60 series knuckle and hub that I've fitted to the 40 series diff? Is there likely to be a variation in the angels between the two? Has anyone had a similar problem. I've chatted with the LVVC guy and he said the steering must self return to centre.
check the tension on your steering box as if too tight it wont return to centre, better to have a slight bit of free play than too tight.
to fix the castor (if its out) you need castor wedges, these can be best bought at a truck and bus shop or TRT etc, dont go to repco for them as they wont even know what your talking about
best to bang it on a wheel allignment machine to find out what your castor is doing anyway. then if it is out you know by how much
If you already know everything, DON'T ask bloody questions!!
wopass wrote:check the tension on your steering box as if too tight it wont return to centre, better to have a slight bit of free play than too tight.
to fix the castor (if its out) you need castor wedges, these can be best bought at a truck and bus shop or TRT etc, dont go to repco for them as they wont even know what your talking about
best to bang it on a wheel allignment machine to find out what your castor is doing anyway. then if it is out you know by how much
I did tighten up the tension in the steering box when I first got it so I'll look at that tonight and back it off. If that doesn't fix it I'll book it in for a wheel alignment to suss out where things are at.
I've just been reading up on cutting the ends of the diff housing/spring mounts etc to correct it and feel like OMG... will this ever end! Worst case the wedges sound like an easier option.
Steering is now returning to centre!... after backing the tension off on the steering box.
One final thing.. the brakes. They're still locking up at the rear when I try to pull up quick. I usually have the drum brakes so they're just rubbing on the drums - that's how my friend said to set them up for WOF's... I've backed off the back drums to try and let the front kick in earlier but it hasn't really improved things.
Do people generally run a different master cylinder setup when they swap to discs or can you get away with the 40 series one? perhaps a brake bias?
There will be a residual pressure valve in each circuit from the master cylinder. According to the ih8mud guru's, you need to remove the residual pressure valve from the front circuit when you convert to disc brakes. I swapped in a complete 60 series master cylinder and booster which has a bigger piston and a front-rear proportioning valve in the circuit. Much better brakes than with the 40 series gear!
muddy wrote:There will be a residual pressure valve in each circuit from the master cylinder. According to the ih8mud guru's, you need to remove the residual pressure valve from the front circuit when you convert to disc brakes. I swapped in a complete 60 series master cylinder and booster which has a bigger piston and a front-rear proportioning valve in the circuit. Much better brakes than with the 40 series gear!
Cheers for that - I was wondering if getting a 60 series master cylinder would sort it... I'll have a look on the ih8mud site for articles on how to set up the 40 master cylinder (it's only a couple of month old).
I've had a good read and I'll try pulling out the front valve tomorrow. Failing that I'll hunt out a 60 series master brake setup. Anyone have one they want to sell (in or around Wgtn city???)
Okay... removed the residual pressure valve (RPV) from the front circuit earlier today and just took it for a test drive. Brakes don't really pull up any better that with the RPV with the back still locking up first under heavy braking. The brake pedal has more feel to it which is a step in the right direction. I'd probably be happy with it but I think the WOF/LVV man will want something done about the back brakes. I could possible add in a proportioning valve but I think I'll be phoning around tomorrow for a 60 series master cylinder and booster.
Once you sort out your master cylinder and proportioning valve if your still not happy with your brakes you could stick a second booster into the front brake circuit, howie stuck one on my truck and it make a big difference to the braking.... makes a big hole in your pocket too
wopass wrote:found some pics, bit hard to see as its all covered in instabling but gives you an idea.
Hey - are you running a 60 series master brake booster set up here? If so have you retained the 60 series std brake bias set up that sits underneath the booster? I've brought one and have mounted the booster upside down and was wondering about using the bias.
Grrrr... fitted the 60 series master cylinder, booster, and proportioning valve but the brakes are even worse! Don't even feel safe driving it. Re-bleed the front on the side of the road and it made no difference.
Don't know why but I found it really hard to bleed the front brakes, it almost feels like the pedal is travelling its full length and hitting something. I'll have to pull it all out again and recheck everything. I'm officially sick of the brakes and may end up taking it to someone to sort.
The piston on the 60 series is longer than on the 40. I had to cut about an inch off the threaded part where it attaches to the brake pedal. The "U" bracket that goes on the pedal has to be wound pretty much all the way to the end of the thread. Otherwise the piston is in the compressed position when the pedal is fully up...
muddy wrote:The piston on the 60 series is longer than on the 40. I had to cut about an inch off the threaded part where it attaches to the brake pedal. The "U" bracket that goes on the pedal has to be wound pretty much all the way to the end of the thread. Otherwise the piston is in the compressed position when the pedal is fully up...
Thanks I'd trimmed the thread down when I installed it but I was going to pull it all apart again to check that the piston had it's full travel and wasn't partially compressed.
Tuesday night... I'd gone and shortened the shaft the other night from the pedal to the booster to make sure that it wasn't part way down. I'd also checked that the pedal had more travel in it and wasn't hitting something. took it for a drive and slight improvement,. Bleed the front brakes again and things getting better but still not great.
Today... Well, spent the avo trying to sort the breaks with a mechanic - firstly rechecked everything I'd done, bleed the master cylinder, each of the wheel cylinders... not much better - pedal feeling like it grabs initially then just doesn't get any better - as in no more bite as you push harder. He wasn't 100% sure about the proportioning valve so we tried things without it - locks up the rear without really trying. Brake clamp on the rear line and you push the pedal and every time it comes back with a feeling of it getting to a point then not grabbing any more. I was going to get a new 60 series master cylinder but he had a vehicle (surf) that I thought I'd try the master cylinder out of - similar brake configuration. Put it in, bleed the lines, same result with the rear locking way too early (no proportioning valve inline). Clamp on the rear and it had the same feel as before with the 60 series... doh! no progress.
No luck... not sure where to start. He gave me a name of someone to get their advice. I may start back with the basics and pull off the callipers to double check that none of the pistons have seized - I had checked them when I put them on but I'm running out of options.
One final thing - for those who may have already gone down this track - when you put the 60 series booster in did you redrill the hole through the brake pedal to bring the rod from the booster more inline with the centre line of the booster? I remember thinking that it was on a slight angle when connecting it up to the pedal.
wopass wrote:found some pics, bit hard to see as its all covered in instabling but gives you an idea.
Hey - are you running a 60 series master brake booster set up here? If so have you retained the 60 series std brake bias set up that sits underneath the booster? I've brought one and have mounted the booster upside down and was wondering about using the bias.
bit slow on the reply here but yes.
If you already know everything, DON'T ask bloody questions!!
Okay, just a quick update. Spent last Friday avo with a mechanic - went through the system, bleed the master, then the rest of the system, no better. Removed the proportional valve out of the system as a test and locked up the rear without even trying. Clamped off the rear and was damn hard to stop with just the front. Swapped the master cylinder with one off a surf/hilux (1inch bore), no proportional valve and same results, rear locking easily, clamp off the rear and hard to stop - same story really... nothing more achieved on Friday.
Sat, chatted with someone who'd set up their cruiser with a similar configuration and they said with the back brakes locked off you'd find it fairly hard to pull the vehicle up... not what I was expecting. I'd thought you'd be able to lock up the fronts - guess I should be lowering my expectations? They mentioned the best setup they'd has was 60 series front/rear discs and 70 series master cylinder. I'm acquiring a spare set of disc brake callipers in case I decide to head down this path - I have the old 60 series discs that will bolt onto the back of the full floater rear diff.... we'll see. Comes down to time, money, and what bracket to use to mount the callipers onto the diff.
...and finally, tonight I pulled everything apart. Checked that the front callipers weren't seized, none of the joints had anything restricting fluid, increased the space between the pedal and booster, bench bleed the master, and remounted the 60 series master and prop valve. Ran out of brake fluid so will rebleed the system over the weekend.
I had the same problem with my surf when I went disks both ends, it just felt like the pedal was bottoming out on something solid, not spongy. Still don't know what it was, and I am not sure if the problem will still be there when the current build is over. So if you manage to find out what is happening, make sure you post it up.
Ugly is a state of mind..... and the state of my truck!
Fakey wrote:Got your brakes sorted yet? Ive done pretty much the same to mine an am having probs with the rear locking up so would be keen to hear any progress
Nope, went back through everything last week and have it all set up with 60 series parts - but still in the same situation. Talked to G Guy today and will possibly book it in with them for next week... will post up when I get something sorted. What combo are you using?
Warren Here, (you bought the new discs off me) Im using surf front discs an calipers,(got a full floater, an locker to go inwhich i want to put discs on as well), I took it out for a drive after i got the right steering arms to suit the hilux hubs an 40 tie rod, back brakes locked up too early, didnt have the time to look into it so put it in storage a few weeks ago, ill get it out this weekend an have a bit of a look an see what i can come up with, thinkin bout tryin a surf booster an master cylinder,
I think I'll just put on new discs and get the job done.
