Just to clear the air on body lifts and give some of you guys
a pinch of the wof inspectors advise.
1.At the moment the wof virm has nothing about vehicle height or body lifts that condems them,the only mention to vehicle height is :no point lower than 100mm to the road (updates are often added to the virm) Virm is wof bible.So only mentions lowering.
However the virm has got enough other reasons for rejection if your lift is not done correctly.In short a body lift is legal as long as you dont modify/change or cause problems in the areas listed in the virm.
Examples.Correct alignment and mount of Fuel lines,brake lines and components,steering components,Security of mounts and bushes,Exhaust mounts,no sharp objects protruding around the vehicle and lastly if the vehicle inspector considers the vehicle unsafe he/she can fail the vehicle.
I have checked the virm and asked the inspector of inspectors
on my last wof inspector course this week.And thats the word.
LVV is not required for body lifts.
LVV is not required for body lifts.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Don't forget to inform your insurance company about your mods ie lifts etc, as if its not declared they can use this to decline claims
70 series prado (KZJ78) and 90 Series Prado (KZJ95)
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
So there is no need for a cert for a suspension lift if it is done correctly and there are no safety issues?
I was always told there was a mention of using factory mounts etc?
I was always told there was a mention of using factory mounts etc?
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Note post was for body lifts...Suspension lifts are under the same hat in regards to height.
At present no mention on suspension lifts in regards to height or lifting by replacing components with suitable aftermarket or genuine equipment.In other words its ok to replace springs and shocks and adjustable panhard rods etc.However be very carefull what you replace and how you do it because if you start cuting welding heating or shifting mounts that becomes another issue and would require LVV) Making components and welding them in place or bolting them on is basicaly not going to wash with most inspectors unless you do such a good job of making it look like a genuine factory fit and the inspector doesn't notice.Otherwise the virm does give them the right to fail it!
If thats all to confusing....
Legal without LVV:Lift springs and shocks are ok using genuine mounts.
Requires LVV:cuting,welding,shifting,making your own drop box or shock mounts etc.Remember the items that are inspected for LVV must be safe for the life of the vehicle and the inspector basicaly puts his life on the line if someone is hurt because of your work so do it right first time.
Likewise with a wof the inspector is the one who is going to jail if your vehicle ends up hurting someone because of something that falls off or comes loose.So do it right first time and if you do have questions call the LTSA and ask someone the details
on what your doing.
Sadly we have an automotive system that can only back the decision made by the inspector if its in the virm and has a few gray areas with the good old boys that havnt been on a wof update course for 30years,and other inspectors that have come from places that do wof inspections with a candle and wooden
lever bar! You can ask for a complant form from the inspector if you dont think they are in line and you can ask for them to show you in the virm the details backing the reason they failed your vehicle.
At present no mention on suspension lifts in regards to height or lifting by replacing components with suitable aftermarket or genuine equipment.In other words its ok to replace springs and shocks and adjustable panhard rods etc.However be very carefull what you replace and how you do it because if you start cuting welding heating or shifting mounts that becomes another issue and would require LVV) Making components and welding them in place or bolting them on is basicaly not going to wash with most inspectors unless you do such a good job of making it look like a genuine factory fit and the inspector doesn't notice.Otherwise the virm does give them the right to fail it!
If thats all to confusing....
Legal without LVV:Lift springs and shocks are ok using genuine mounts.
Requires LVV:cuting,welding,shifting,making your own drop box or shock mounts etc.Remember the items that are inspected for LVV must be safe for the life of the vehicle and the inspector basicaly puts his life on the line if someone is hurt because of your work so do it right first time.
Likewise with a wof the inspector is the one who is going to jail if your vehicle ends up hurting someone because of something that falls off or comes loose.So do it right first time and if you do have questions call the LTSA and ask someone the details
on what your doing.
Sadly we have an automotive system that can only back the decision made by the inspector if its in the virm and has a few gray areas with the good old boys that havnt been on a wof update course for 30years,and other inspectors that have come from places that do wof inspections with a candle and wooden
lever bar! You can ask for a complant form from the inspector if you dont think they are in line and you can ask for them to show you in the virm the details backing the reason they failed your vehicle.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
LIFTED wrote: and you can ask for them to show you in the virm the details backing the reason they failed your vehicle.
And when you prove them wrong, they still will not back track as happened to me once. I even complained to the LTSA but after 2 years I have yet to get a reply.
Ok people, move along. Nothing to see here. Thank you, move along.
Ph 0212078472
Ph 0212078472
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
LIFTED wrote:Note post was for body lifts
Sorry, just asking after you mention the only reference to vehicle height is lowering, but interesting to see there isn't much mentioned.
Can anyone request a copy of these rules/regs, or is all this on the LTSA site anyway?
Cheers
Last edited by DaveM on Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
LIFTED wrote:Note post was for body lifts...Suspension lifts are under the same hat in regards to height.
At present no mention on suspension lifts in regards to height or lifting by replacing components with suitable aftermarket or genuine equipment.In other words its ok to replace springs and shocks and adjustable panhard rods etc.However be very carefull what you replace and how you do it because if you start cuting welding heating or shifting mounts that becomes another issue and would require LVV) Making components and welding them in place or bolting them on is basicaly not going to wash with most inspectors unless you do such a good job of making it look like a genuine factory fit and the inspector doesn't notice.Otherwise the virm does give them the right to fail it!
If thats all to confusing....
all good and well to get a wof but if the worst happened and there was an accident the police may find that the over standard height was a contributing factor and prosecute accordingly mr wof man doesnt nessasarliy get pinged as they only inspect it on one day and it is ultimatly up to the driver to ensure its safety. My cert guy told me there is a note in the hotrod manual refering to stability due to increased centre of gravity, you also have to look at the extra leverage on the body mounts. I have seen a 150mm body litfs and if what you say is correct then this would be legal however it seriously would affect the strength of the vehicle. My thoughts are it needs to be certed to be sure and safe
Legal without LVV:Lift springs and shocks are ok using genuine mounts.
Requires LVV:cuting,welding,shifting,making your own drop box or shock mounts etc.Remember the items that are inspected for LVV must be safe for the life of the vehicle and the inspector basicaly puts his life on the line if someone is hurt because of your work so do it right first time.
Likewise with a wof the inspector is the one who is going to jail if your vehicle ends up hurting someone because of something that falls off or comes loose.So do it right first time and if you do have questions call the LTSA and ask someone the details
on what your doing.
Sadly we have an automotive system that can only back the decision made by the inspector if its in the virm and has a few gray areas with the good old boys that havnt been on a wof update course for 30years,and other inspectors that have come from places that do wof inspections with a candle and wooden
lever bar! You can ask for a complant form from the inspector if you dont think they are in line and you can ask for them to show you in the virm the details backing the reason they failed your vehicle.
swb lux with 7mge, trailgear crossover, trailgear rear lift kit, custom front bar, runva 1200lb winch, custom snorkel, 37" Mtrs, custom deck, lockright in the rear.
-
Steve_t647
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Christchurch City, In front of the computer
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
I was told from an LTSA Inspector in chch
"because the body bolts between the body and chassis had been replaced with longer versions a WOF inspection may require the modification to be inspected for lvv.
A WOF inspection can without lvv pass but it would require the inspector to inspect all these replacement bolts every time if not certified and determine if they think they are suitable under the current rules.
They then take legal responsibility for the vehicle modifications and how these bolts react in an accident until the next WOF"
"because the body bolts between the body and chassis had been replaced with longer versions a WOF inspection may require the modification to be inspected for lvv.
A WOF inspection can without lvv pass but it would require the inspector to inspect all these replacement bolts every time if not certified and determine if they think they are suitable under the current rules.
They then take legal responsibility for the vehicle modifications and how these bolts react in an accident until the next WOF"
Legal disclaimer: Any information I may have provided is worth exactly what you paid me for it.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Yes the VIRM doesn't state anything regarding body lifts as such, but technically a body lift does need a cert.
A WOF inspector can use the 13.1 clauses that states .....
"Condition and performance
1. The vehicle must be safe to be operated.
2. The components and materials must be fit for their
purpose and within safe tolerance of their state
when manufactured or modified."
An inspector can ask for the vehicle to be checked by a LVV certifier if in doubt of anything that has been modified/altered before a WOF is issued.
And that is what I was told by the NZTA inspector on FRI when he was at work (wof testing one of the apprentices).
A WOF inspector can use the 13.1 clauses that states .....
"Condition and performance
1. The vehicle must be safe to be operated.
2. The components and materials must be fit for their
purpose and within safe tolerance of their state
when manufactured or modified."
An inspector can ask for the vehicle to be checked by a LVV certifier if in doubt of anything that has been modified/altered before a WOF is issued.
And that is what I was told by the NZTA inspector on FRI when he was at work (wof testing one of the apprentices).
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
mudbugga wrote:Yes the VIRM doesn't state anything regarding body lifts as such, but technically a body lift does need a cert.
Shouldn't that say technically a cert is not required, but is at the discretion of the WOF issuer?
It seems there is too much "grey" area, and different wof issuers interperet the law differently.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
And now we are back to square one. As I stated 1.no statment of height or lifting in virm.Yes 100mm from ground is the limit As confirmed by my wof tester who tested me on tuesday last week.
2.The only way an inspector can fail it is if he/she considers it unsafe.Such as,a very good reason as to why itis unsafe.
3.As for the mounting bolts.The virm only gives examples of inspecting items the inspector can see! The bog in your 57 chev cant be seen? The brakes on you rear drums maybe on the wear limit.Also brake pads,Can only be failed if they are (visible In the virm) and worn out, to the inspectors ability to see components.
Note:Inspectors are not allowed to remove items or even poke a screw driver at your vehicle unless concent from the owner is given and it becomes a new job outside of the wof inspection.
4.As for the gentleman who stated the owner is at fault if the vehicle flips in the eyes of the police.That would totaly depend on the circumstances.As you know Police check road conditions,vehicle eta/speed and in this case lift of the vehicle.If the vehicle is noticably lifted and the police beleive this is the cause of the crash I would not like to be the inspector who placed the sticker on the window as all can be traced no matter what time or day.
Lastly I would like to have confidance a vehicle inspector with correct training and an automotive background should be able to pick out the skyhigh risky lifts that may roll at any speed over a 2'' body lift on top of a 2'' spring lift,more than likely with new suspension or upgraded that will help leason the roll risk anyway.
Gray area maybe,thats why you need a mechanic you know and trust is going to do whats best for you and your vehicle.Most cases the inspector will ask anothers advise to help make a decision.
In short do it correctly and you most likely wont hav a problem and if you do the inspector had beter have good reason to back his decision.
2.The only way an inspector can fail it is if he/she considers it unsafe.Such as,a very good reason as to why itis unsafe.
3.As for the mounting bolts.The virm only gives examples of inspecting items the inspector can see! The bog in your 57 chev cant be seen? The brakes on you rear drums maybe on the wear limit.Also brake pads,Can only be failed if they are (visible In the virm) and worn out, to the inspectors ability to see components.
Note:Inspectors are not allowed to remove items or even poke a screw driver at your vehicle unless concent from the owner is given and it becomes a new job outside of the wof inspection.
4.As for the gentleman who stated the owner is at fault if the vehicle flips in the eyes of the police.That would totaly depend on the circumstances.As you know Police check road conditions,vehicle eta/speed and in this case lift of the vehicle.If the vehicle is noticably lifted and the police beleive this is the cause of the crash I would not like to be the inspector who placed the sticker on the window as all can be traced no matter what time or day.
Lastly I would like to have confidance a vehicle inspector with correct training and an automotive background should be able to pick out the skyhigh risky lifts that may roll at any speed over a 2'' body lift on top of a 2'' spring lift,more than likely with new suspension or upgraded that will help leason the roll risk anyway.
Gray area maybe,thats why you need a mechanic you know and trust is going to do whats best for you and your vehicle.Most cases the inspector will ask anothers advise to help make a decision.
In short do it correctly and you most likely wont hav a problem and if you do the inspector had beter have good reason to back his decision.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
actually no ... its written that if the vehical is unsafe in there opinon they do not have to pass it
they dont have to prove anything .. they just have to have a opinion .... then the certifier you go to needs to have the opinion that it dosent need to be certed
im not sure what your tring to achieve with this threed
but i know several wof people that would require a lvv inspector opinion ... and a couple of lvv certifiers that would require you cert it
in a technical respect
you have changed the way the body mounts and the way they are designed to work and the stresses that are applied to the joint .. under lvv rules that requires a cert
to the letter of the law
as for your wof inspector giving you info on this....... thats like asking macdonalds for peranting advice
Modification (Note 4)
2. The performance of the frontal impact occupant
protection system may have been afected by
a modifcation, including an added or removed
object, ftting or component, after the vehicle was
manufactured if the vehicle has a GVM of 2500 kg
also
Added reference and note to cover Nissan Terranos and Mistrals.
Correct list of vehicles required to meet frontal impact
standards.
Added A-frames and bullbars to the modification table and clarify
requirements for cosmetic body kits.
Added body mounts to be part of the vehicle structure under
Figure 3-1-2
referance
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/virm- ... r-v3a4.pdf
they dont have to prove anything .. they just have to have a opinion .... then the certifier you go to needs to have the opinion that it dosent need to be certed
im not sure what your tring to achieve with this threed
but i know several wof people that would require a lvv inspector opinion ... and a couple of lvv certifiers that would require you cert it
in a technical respect
you have changed the way the body mounts and the way they are designed to work and the stresses that are applied to the joint .. under lvv rules that requires a cert
to the letter of the law
as for your wof inspector giving you info on this....... thats like asking macdonalds for peranting advice
Modification (Note 4)
2. The performance of the frontal impact occupant
protection system may have been afected by
a modifcation, including an added or removed
object, ftting or component, after the vehicle was
manufactured if the vehicle has a GVM of 2500 kg
also
Added reference and note to cover Nissan Terranos and Mistrals.
Correct list of vehicles required to meet frontal impact
standards.
Added A-frames and bullbars to the modification table and clarify
requirements for cosmetic body kits.
Added body mounts to be part of the vehicle structure under
Figure 3-1-2
referance
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/virm- ... r-v3a4.pdf
Kiwi4x4
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Interesting find pitty Bruce, the LTSA trainer/inspector who spends his days testing wof inspectors like myself,didnt share the same opinion.Thats what im getting at.Just relaying what I was told not from Mc donalds but the Law of inspectors himself.You show amendment topics this is not a detail of reasons for rejection isit? I will gladly look up the details on monday.As for my vehicle however one of the larger trucks is only Gvm2300 and not a Mistral or otherwise.Itis hardly going to be any different with the spacers over any after market replacement bush anyway.Hence the last two guys other than myself passed it as is.
Things to ponder???
By the way if the inspector cannot advise the customer why they have failed the vehicle that is good reason for comlpant.Safty is in the eye of the beholder?Ever tryed to explain to someone why you failed something the last three guys passed you will now about it guys.Not to comprimise safty here!
Last point LVV guys are trying to make a buck they would tell you a mud flap needs a cert if its not OE.Thats $500 to him
Anyway lads good to get a boil up and get to the bottom of this topic.Thats how we get the answers and input we all love.
Things to ponder???
By the way if the inspector cannot advise the customer why they have failed the vehicle that is good reason for comlpant.Safty is in the eye of the beholder?Ever tryed to explain to someone why you failed something the last three guys passed you will now about it guys.Not to comprimise safty here!
Last point LVV guys are trying to make a buck they would tell you a mud flap needs a cert if its not OE.Thats $500 to him
Anyway lads good to get a boil up and get to the bottom of this topic.Thats how we get the answers and input we all love.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
i can easily give you reason
youve added a strap element to the bodymounts that the mounts nor the bolt diameter was never calculated for ....
so now you have a opinion and a engineering standpoint as to why it needs a lvv
as a inspector can you work out the new forces to be exerted on the body mounts and how much strap/leverage the bolts can handle ??
im not tring to be rude .. but keep within your skill set when forming a opinion on saftey
if you dont understand the engineering as to why body lifts can crack and rip odd body mounts then perhaps your best to get the opinion of someone that can .....
hence why if you follow the system correctly you refer them to the LVV
its a simple idea
perhaps you should give your trainers name to a LVV engineer so he can be told that hes wrongly giving advice
youve added a strap element to the bodymounts that the mounts nor the bolt diameter was never calculated for ....
so now you have a opinion and a engineering standpoint as to why it needs a lvv
as a inspector can you work out the new forces to be exerted on the body mounts and how much strap/leverage the bolts can handle ??
im not tring to be rude .. but keep within your skill set when forming a opinion on saftey
if you dont understand the engineering as to why body lifts can crack and rip odd body mounts then perhaps your best to get the opinion of someone that can .....
hence why if you follow the system correctly you refer them to the LVV
its a simple idea
perhaps you should give your trainers name to a LVV engineer so he can be told that hes wrongly giving advice
Kiwi4x4
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
And what makes you think a LVVC's opinion on a mod is any better?
I have had a vehicle certified, only for a WOF station to refuse it, as they felt it was unsafe. In the end the cert plate was invalid, and should never have been placed on the vehicle.
At the end of the day, it comes down to what the tester feels is or isn't safe, and that opinion can change every 6mths anyway.
I'm not saying certs are a bad idea, or shouldn't be needed, but too often different WOF issuers or even certifiers have differeing opinions on what is is isn't legal
I have had a vehicle certified, only for a WOF station to refuse it, as they felt it was unsafe. In the end the cert plate was invalid, and should never have been placed on the vehicle.
At the end of the day, it comes down to what the tester feels is or isn't safe, and that opinion can change every 6mths anyway.
I'm not saying certs are a bad idea, or shouldn't be needed, but too often different WOF issuers or even certifiers have differeing opinions on what is is isn't legal
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Not going to blow my trumpet! but if I was to explain my history with vehicles and mods it would make the 2nd to last statement a laughing matter indeed,not to get personal.Each individual lift i have an opinion on, in this case the vehicle has 8.8 bolts stronger than o.e. anyway and is only 2'' lift hardly worth paying $500 for a plate to be fitted because i know it would pass inspection anyway .Back to the virm only mention of mod to frontal impact for the auctual type of vehicle we are dealing with M/C ( thats short for 4x4 to you guys) says Note 4. Class MB or MC vehicle manufactured from 1/1/2003.
Dave M has a point! This will boil your blood Dave.We built an AC cobra replica at the shop over 09/10 Our boy had trouble with the brakes and forgot to take the brake hose clamp off while it went for the LVV plate and it passed.No bull! We since removed the clamp and kicked boys ass.
Dave M has a point! This will boil your blood Dave.We built an AC cobra replica at the shop over 09/10 Our boy had trouble with the brakes and forgot to take the brake hose clamp off while it went for the LVV plate and it passed.No bull! We since removed the clamp and kicked boys ass.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
sweet
so can you please tell the differance in strap between a 25mm rubber mount and 75mm lift
factory toyota body bolts are japanese grade 8 bolts ...
they are equivilent to 10.8 bolts
so here is your equation
300kg of body .. on a 25mm factory rubber bushed lift ..
3g of stop
what strap/sheer is on the factory grade 8 m10 bolts
300kg of body on a 75mm lift ... grade 8.8 10 ?? bolts
3g of stop
same results please
i mean obviously you do know since you called the question ... laughable.....
having a history of doing mods ... and knowing the physics involved to make sure your mods are safe are 2 different thing
im just asking you to quatify what you have said with some hard numbers ... not a opinion
i dont see why its such a acievement to get around somthing like this ..
its bloddy obvious that a body lift changes the stress on the mounts and cab .. so why such a issue with making sure its up to standered
lvv guys here want m12 bolts on a 2" lift over the m10's
think of it this way
if your in a accident .. and you cab comes off and someone gets killed ... yourd better have some ky in the glovebox ... because you can bet its gunna be called the reason .. and you can bet its manslaughter
at least with a lvv .. youve indemified yourself
so can you please tell the differance in strap between a 25mm rubber mount and 75mm lift
factory toyota body bolts are japanese grade 8 bolts ...
they are equivilent to 10.8 bolts
so here is your equation
300kg of body .. on a 25mm factory rubber bushed lift ..
3g of stop
what strap/sheer is on the factory grade 8 m10 bolts
300kg of body on a 75mm lift ... grade 8.8 10 ?? bolts
3g of stop
same results please
i mean obviously you do know since you called the question ... laughable.....
having a history of doing mods ... and knowing the physics involved to make sure your mods are safe are 2 different thing
im just asking you to quatify what you have said with some hard numbers ... not a opinion
i dont see why its such a acievement to get around somthing like this ..
its bloddy obvious that a body lift changes the stress on the mounts and cab .. so why such a issue with making sure its up to standered
lvv guys here want m12 bolts on a 2" lift over the m10's
think of it this way
if your in a accident .. and you cab comes off and someone gets killed ... yourd better have some ky in the glovebox ... because you can bet its gunna be called the reason .. and you can bet its manslaughter
at least with a lvv .. youve indemified yourself
Kiwi4x4
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
1,Cant compare rubber mounts to steel sorry.
2,Depends on the dia of the new mount/steel bush,as this will change the surface area contacted on the body and chassis.Some people have box type spacers to get around your issue.
3,Driver gets to the point when in the case of a crash for this lift to pose a problem over eight of the mounts you are dead anyway.and anyone else in the vehicle.Not to mention the vehicle you hit.Because its gona have to be a big hit.
4,8.8 Bolts come in other forms,stainless and are recomended for vehicle tow points,bar mounts,ect ect If you feel the need go larger,cool.
5,I think some people get stuck on if's how's but's and why's and try to back everything with equations and examples of what may happen.And accidents still happen in these cases!While the rest of us all over the world drive lifted vehicles with and without certs that are often all done the same way we have discussed.
6,I have worked with many engineers in my trade and sometimes left shocked at the reasoning,build quality and ideas created by them.I have many great contacts to reason my views with and form opinions from all inputs.
Sorry the only point i make laughable is your assumption that maybe I would require advise from an LVV inspector to decide for me the safty of a vehicle due to a lack of knowledge.More like the inspector becomes a pain in my ass because I have to get everything signed of by someone who is making a living out of saying yes thats ok.Opps hang on you beter change this or that,Now its ok,Opps hang on this could be wrong lets check it out again.Sorry mate not had much sence from my LVV guy.
Anyway that it from me.
2,Depends on the dia of the new mount/steel bush,as this will change the surface area contacted on the body and chassis.Some people have box type spacers to get around your issue.
3,Driver gets to the point when in the case of a crash for this lift to pose a problem over eight of the mounts you are dead anyway.and anyone else in the vehicle.Not to mention the vehicle you hit.Because its gona have to be a big hit.
4,8.8 Bolts come in other forms,stainless and are recomended for vehicle tow points,bar mounts,ect ect If you feel the need go larger,cool.
5,I think some people get stuck on if's how's but's and why's and try to back everything with equations and examples of what may happen.And accidents still happen in these cases!While the rest of us all over the world drive lifted vehicles with and without certs that are often all done the same way we have discussed.
6,I have worked with many engineers in my trade and sometimes left shocked at the reasoning,build quality and ideas created by them.I have many great contacts to reason my views with and form opinions from all inputs.
Sorry the only point i make laughable is your assumption that maybe I would require advise from an LVV inspector to decide for me the safty of a vehicle due to a lack of knowledge.More like the inspector becomes a pain in my ass because I have to get everything signed of by someone who is making a living out of saying yes thats ok.Opps hang on you beter change this or that,Now its ok,Opps hang on this could be wrong lets check it out again.Sorry mate not had much sence from my LVV guy.
Anyway that it from me.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
vvega wrote:i dont see why its such a acievement to get around somthing like this ..
its bloddy obvious that a body lift changes the stress on the mounts and cab .. so why such a issue with making sure its up to standered
lvv guys here want m12 bolts on a 2" lift over the m10's
And you prove it yet again. Instead of having set standards to go by, it's individual opinion.
I've seen body lifts 0f 60mm with M10's, whereas your guys want M12's. Who is right? 1 thinks M10's are more than adequate, the other doesn't
Like I said, no problems from me if I need to get a cert, but I wish that there was something more to go by when it comes to 4wd mods, at least I'd know where I stand.
I can get a wof with no swaybars from 2 of 3 testings stations here (2 say that IF one is fitted, it must have good bushes, but I'm not required to have one). The 3rd says I MUST have swaybars.
1 certifier has said he can cert me for no swaybars, but not sway disconnects, where another says he will cert sway disconnects, but I must have swaybars
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
DaveM wrote:vvega wrote:i dont see why its such a acievement to get around somthing like this ..
its bloddy obvious that a body lift changes the stress on the mounts and cab .. so why such a issue with making sure its up to standered
lvv guys here want m12 bolts on a 2" lift over the m10's
And you prove it yet again. Instead of having set standards to go by, it's individual opinion.
I've seen body lifts 0f 60mm with M10's, whereas your guys want M12's. Who is right? 1 thinks M10's are more than adequate, the other doesn't
Like I said, no problems from me if I need to get a cert, but I wish that there was something more to go by when it comes to 4wd mods, at least I'd know where I stand.
I can get a wof with no swaybars from 2 of 3 testings stations here (2 say that IF one is fitted, it must have good bushes, but I'm not required to have one). The 3rd says I MUST have swaybars.
1 certifier has said he can cert me for no swaybars, but not sway disconnects, where another says he will cert sway disconnects, but I must have swaybars
thats the point im tring to make
this threed has a bold statement
YOU DONT NEED A LVV FOR A WOF
but its not fact its just opinion .....
as long as we have wof people and cert guys that use opinon rather than facts to give wofs and certs .. this will always be a issue
im not trying to insult anyone
im just asking the guy who made the statement .. to back it up with something not opinion based
Kiwi4x4
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Now i see what your getting at.
The reason my bold title(Lvv not required for body lifts) is not just opinion its because the virm does not state all 4wd vehicles of any age, make or weight require Lvv.Some mention I have found on surtain vehicles such as after 1/1/03 changes that may affect frontal....
But the fact still remains that the virm still advises an inspector if he is unsure of the build quality he/she (can) arrange back up ie: Lvv.This is hardly under the reason for rejection and everyone with this body lifts fails without lvv,maybe it should be!
And what i am getting at is with this in mind if a surtain inspector is not sure or doesn't have the abbility to decide if its safe.The owner can find another inspector who is happy with the lift and continue to use this inspector and all is well without Lvv.
I dont have an issue with getting Lvv or advising people its a good idea.I just want people to know that its not stated! as the LTSA inspector said and I have reserched Its a black and white fail.
Note :after 28 days the reason for fail is removed from the wof system and you are free to get another opinion and take your pride and joy elsewere at anystage of the wof process.
I have done a wof that was almost a write off and the very same day someone else passed it as i checked online.
The reason my bold title(Lvv not required for body lifts) is not just opinion its because the virm does not state all 4wd vehicles of any age, make or weight require Lvv.Some mention I have found on surtain vehicles such as after 1/1/03 changes that may affect frontal....
But the fact still remains that the virm still advises an inspector if he is unsure of the build quality he/she (can) arrange back up ie: Lvv.This is hardly under the reason for rejection and everyone with this body lifts fails without lvv,maybe it should be!
And what i am getting at is with this in mind if a surtain inspector is not sure or doesn't have the abbility to decide if its safe.The owner can find another inspector who is happy with the lift and continue to use this inspector and all is well without Lvv.
I dont have an issue with getting Lvv or advising people its a good idea.I just want people to know that its not stated! as the LTSA inspector said and I have reserched Its a black and white fail.
Note :after 28 days the reason for fail is removed from the wof system and you are free to get another opinion and take your pride and joy elsewere at anystage of the wof process.
I have done a wof that was almost a write off and the very same day someone else passed it as i checked online.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
GUESS AT THE END OF THE DAY THE WHOLE WOF SYSTEM IS TO SOME POINT OPINION BASED IF ITS NOT BLACK OR WHITE! IN THE VIRM,THE VIRM GIVE'S AN INSPECTOR
THE RIGHT TO FAIL SOME THINGS, THAT OTHERS ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT OR CANT BE STUFFED WITH,THINGS LIKE NON SLIP ON PEDDLE RUBBERS.SUCH AS... TAIL LIGHT REFLECTORS HAVE TO BE VISIBLE FROM 100M THATS GOING TO HAVE DIFFERING VIEWS DEPENDING ON LIGHT AT TIME OF INSPECTION ETC.MOST PEOPLE HATE THE FACT THAT ITS OPINION BASED BUT THATS THE WAY ITS BEEN FOR YEARS.MAYBE IT SHOULD CHANGE BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THE VIRM HAS TO COVER ALL MAKES AND MODELS AND YOU CANT APPLY THE SAME RULES FOR EVERY VEHICLE! MODEL-T TO AUDI A6.TAKES COMMON SENSE TO MAKE A DECISION AND THE VIRM IS ONLY TO BACK UP THE DECISION IF ITS A STATED REASON FOR REJECTION.
THE RIGHT TO FAIL SOME THINGS, THAT OTHERS ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT OR CANT BE STUFFED WITH,THINGS LIKE NON SLIP ON PEDDLE RUBBERS.SUCH AS... TAIL LIGHT REFLECTORS HAVE TO BE VISIBLE FROM 100M THATS GOING TO HAVE DIFFERING VIEWS DEPENDING ON LIGHT AT TIME OF INSPECTION ETC.MOST PEOPLE HATE THE FACT THAT ITS OPINION BASED BUT THATS THE WAY ITS BEEN FOR YEARS.MAYBE IT SHOULD CHANGE BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THE VIRM HAS TO COVER ALL MAKES AND MODELS AND YOU CANT APPLY THE SAME RULES FOR EVERY VEHICLE! MODEL-T TO AUDI A6.TAKES COMMON SENSE TO MAKE A DECISION AND THE VIRM IS ONLY TO BACK UP THE DECISION IF ITS A STATED REASON FOR REJECTION.
89 SWB Patrol Lpg/petrol 5spd, body lift, spring lift,headers & high flow,Custom front bars 9000lb winch and 4x100w hella spots,custom rear bars and stainless fuel tank,Hankook 35/12.5/15x10 rims.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
I have been doing some digging on this matter and have been told that there has been an amendment to the VERM which states that body lifts do require a LVVC, so when I have the information in black and white in front of me I will post it up.
Cheers PR
Cheers PR
Its NOT a whale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! more like a large seal
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Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
I got failed on wof on my surf for not having mud flaps!?, same guy then passed my motorcycle with a near bald rear tyre, got failed wof on safari for body & sus lift, had to fork out for a LVC,got that sorted & passed WoF with no mud flaps?! Consistency would be a good thing!!
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Now i have a question that someone in this forum may be able to help me with.
i have recently brought and re-built (leithfield) Kevs truck. i took it for a warrant it failed because it is not certified.
With a few discussions with Kev the vehicle is in fact certified but when it was certified the second time the origonal plate was not added to the new plate i have both documents to say it is certified. problem being on the original plate it shows "included body lift" on second document it shows "body lift removed" Now i have put bodylift back in.
Do i have to get it re-re-re certified or do i write a letter to LVV stating my delemer with the plates not being combined in the first place and not being correct.
i have recently brought and re-built (leithfield) Kevs truck. i took it for a warrant it failed because it is not certified.
With a few discussions with Kev the vehicle is in fact certified but when it was certified the second time the origonal plate was not added to the new plate i have both documents to say it is certified. problem being on the original plate it shows "included body lift" on second document it shows "body lift removed" Now i have put bodylift back in.
Do i have to get it re-re-re certified or do i write a letter to LVV stating my delemer with the plates not being combined in the first place and not being correct.
LIFT YOUR TRUCK FAT CHICKS CANT JUMP
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
I`d say write a letter, or talk to orig cert man?
To Boon or not to Boon.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
Not sure I full y understand what you mean, but sounds like the truck was re-certed with BL removed?
If so, I'd say you will have to get it re-certified if the BL wasn't in it when it was certed last time round.
Just because it's had a cert in the past for one, doesn't mean you can go throw another in and expect them to automtically say it's safe.
If so, I'd say you will have to get it re-certified if the BL wasn't in it when it was certed last time round.
Just because it's had a cert in the past for one, doesn't mean you can go throw another in and expect them to automtically say it's safe.
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
true but on new cert plate does not have what the truck was originally certified for on the forst plate as in all the engineering of the chassie and beam axle conversion etc?????
LIFT YOUR TRUCK FAT CHICKS CANT JUMP
Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
vvilly wrote:true but on new cert plate does not have what the truck was originally certified for on the forst plate as in all the engineering of the chassie and beam axle conversion etc?????
Seems a little odd that this would all be left off
No doubt there are records, so would be worth getting in touch with the issuer and get him to sort it, or query why it's been left off the plate.Re: LVV is not required for body lifts.
yeah he said it will be a full $375 not just an amenment fee not happy. i have all paperwork for both plates would think that would be enough
LIFT YOUR TRUCK FAT CHICKS CANT JUMP