Vitra basics

[newbie]

Looking at the options of a 4x4 and the Virata starts to stand out a little for me.

Mainly because (and please correct me if I'm incorrect), its cheap to buy, cheap to run, can be modified (lots) and is inexpensive to get bits for. I also believe (from reading - not experience) that it is a very capable 4x4 - thus giving a lot of 4x4 for the buck.

I also want a bit of a project (that has to be kept on the road) - so it looks good as in a lot of the mods can be done in over night / weekends and still be on the road for Monday morning.

I have found a few on trademe - but wanted to know from the Suzuki 'guys' - are some models better than others? Should I get a manual or auto for off road?

Any other advise?

I have found some great 'how to's on this site (and others) - but wanted to make sure I had the best 'base' to start from.

Cheers all.

Chris

[Heath]

Okay I'll chime in first.

Personally I would stay away from the 2 litre V6 (and also the bigger 2.5 V6 - personal preference - others may argue differently) and stick with the 1600 petrol (unless you can find a good diesel one). If you can find one with manual front hubs (not auto lockers that would be a bonus too (save time later).

Auto or manual is a personal preference thing. Some will argue the merits of auto over manual and for me I would go manual (I believe autos belong behind big engines with horsepower to spare), that said if you like auto, then go that way.

Diff ratio's can be changed so larger tyres can be fitted (235/75/15 is about it until work is done). Correct me if I am wrong but the auto versions have the 5.12 ratios and the manuals have the 4.6 and 4.8 diffs. A 5.12 set in a manual is a good start when getting bigger rubber. The auto doesnt really need better ratios as the slippage makes up for the size.

Front diffs can be weak if thrashed (made of crap ali) as can the front CV's. But careful and thought full tyre placement and use of the loud pedal will sort this problem.

Hell the options on what to do are limited only by your budget, imagination and personal limitations. Just look for a tidy one that has not been used offroad (check for dents and scratches under body on chassis and crossmembers) or one that has been done professionally / properly. You dont want to buy someone else's mistakes (been there done that) as it is costly to get it right again. One that has lived on the beach or a dairy farm might be worth avoiding too - rust.

Ineil has several of these beasties so is probably your best friend when it comes to "what to do and look for".

[MentallyDull]

Hey there,

I agree with what heath has said with suzukis, there was a few of them that used to own vitaras in Wellington.... Just one thing i have learnt from my own experience with these is too stay away from the calmini 3 inch suspension lift if your going to be running the standard aluminium diff instead of a steel one. In about a year of running the standard aluminium diff i blew 5 of them.

Also another thing i found is (correct me if i'm wrong guys) 89-94 viatars are exactly the same and plenty of parts are around as for my 1996 vitara some minor bits n pieces couldn't be used from earlier models.

Cheers

Jared

[Heath]

Was it 96 when they went to the wide body variant?

[lincooln]

Yea I would go for a injected 1600 over a carb 1600 too. I have the carb 1600 but its not quite as powerful and not quite as smooth. Saying that though it still loves the rev limiter and it hasn't let me down yet. Just try to find a clean tidy one that doesn't look like its been thrashed. and yes manual hubs are better for offroad. I get sick of having to reverse a couple of meters to disengage my auto hubs.

The Vitara's are very capable, I get more place's than a lifted Isuzu mu goes. Helps I have been 4 wheeling for 11 years. But they are great to learn in and reliable to boot. What more could you ask for?

Oh and I run 235 75 16 on my vitara and its not too big a deal. Do notice its not got the same power on the road as it does with the standard wheels. But I find its all good off road.

Cheers
Lincoln

[Heath]

Yep, multi point injection is better again then the throttle point injection too, but there is a torque difference between the 16v version and the 8v engine. I believe the 8v has more torque due to size of the valves (but I cant confirm that) but less power.

If the valve cover is plain then it is 8 valve head, if it has 16 valves it will say so on the valve cover.

Free flow exhaust and a decent air filter will wake these up a bit too.

[lincooln]

Yea I believe that the 8 valves do have more torque. and try and remove the standard exhaust manifold as soon as you can. Its the best thing you can do for them.

Oh and I would go manual over auto any day. Then again I absolutely hate an auto. Manuals you can manipulate them more than an auto. More control and i find slower speed downhill when off roading.

[Swamped]

Have to watch the keyway on the front of the crank. Seems to be a regular thing with them flogging the keyway and the timing ending up all on the piss. And yeah 8v do have a bit more torque. The samurai intake system actually fits these engines and runs ok but peak power is a bit average.

[lneil]

There's a lot of good advice in the foregoing posts.

The manuals come standard with the 5.12 diffs and the early autos came with the 4.6s, so the first upgrade for an old 8V auto would be to put in the 5.12 diffs. When I did this I found my road gearing on 31" tyres was right on the money, compared to standard gearing on standard tyres.

I have both auto and manual 3Drs and both have their advantages. The auto really shinews in very slow rough terrain where the torque converter allows ultra crawl speeds below the (not-very-low) low-first of the manual.

The 8-valves definitely lack the horsepower of the 16Vs but I prefer them for two reasons. REALLY simple to repair and work on, plus the bottom end torque just off idle allows easier wheeling in the slow stuff. When I drive with mates in 16Vs they always struggle to avoid stalling at the slow speeds I can maintain.

Check the 'Cheap Vitara lift" thread for great info on simple suspension upgrades, and one or two inch body-lifts are really simple on Vitaras to let you easily run 30" tyres.

Good luck, and has been said before, your first task is to find a clean straight truck that hasn't been hammered. (The first two cross-members and the base of the fuel tank are the best place to look for signs of a truck that's been roughing it as they are thin and vulnerable.

Cheers
Leigh

[loppee]

The Vitara goes very well off road after a few mods,and some can be cheap and easy to do. I have spent about $6000 on all my mods,and thats just the cost of the parts. A diff lock in the rear of these is a great mod.Heres what I have done to mine so far.
3"calmini sup lift, 2"body lift, safari snorkel ,unifilter,freeflows into 2" exhast,manual locking hubs,rear diff lock.31" tyres,steel front diff and have just fitted crawer gears (flatout in low 5th gear is 20km)
Then there is the bits I made myself.Steel front bumper,rocksliders/nerf bar,fuel tank bash plate and skid plate under front diff.
All the mods to mine has taken 5 years (have wife&kids)
Cheers Woody.

[Ginzu8]

Can i ask why people tends to say stay way from the 2L v6 motor? on paper it produce more torque and power than the 1.6L motor. i am not trying to start a debate here. I just want to know why.

[lneil]

I own both, and the V6, while a nicer, torquier motor, comes in a different chassis that does not have the same ease of modification and ready availability of aftermarket add-ons.

The brake calipers necessitate 16" wheels and the engines are less simple and cheap to work on. If the cam-chains get rattly on the V6 its about $1500-$2000 to get them replaced. They also have oddball diff ratios, integral lower ball joints that are MUCH dearer to replace and other minor bits and peices that make modifying one a bit more of a mission than a 1600.

I therefore keep my V6 5-door for a family hack and dog-wagon, at least until I can get the dough to SAS it, while the two 1600 8-valve 3-doors are modded for offroading.

[Heath]

Had heard they burn oil (not in the cylinder though) because of a bad baffle design in the rocker cover (oil get trapped and overheats, turning to goo) - go figure.

[meece4x4]

Can i ask why people tends to say stay way from the 2L v6 motor? on paper it produce more torque and power than the 1.6L motor. i am not trying to start a debate here. I just want to know why.

The main problem i had with my V6 2L Vitara was when you tried to climb a wet grassy hill, the heavier V6 kept dragging the nose around when trying to climb a steep bit, not a nice feeling on a 40 deg slope.
also too the timing chains are prone to clattering and wearing out the chain guides and are fooking expensive to fix unless you do it yourself (was quoted 1200 to do mine)

I have heaths old escudo, shes a 16v 1600 and boy can it hall arse and pretty competitive too placed 2nd in class and 6th overall on the one and only club champs ive been able attend.

[Heath]

I have heaths old escudo, shes a 16v 1600 and boy can it hall arse and pretty competitive too placed 2nd in class and 6th overall on the one and only club champs ive been able attend.

I have plans to build another one in a few years,(My damaged back is improving, but dont tell the missus or the Doc about my plans) so good to hear its going well. Its going to be Chch based though and will be a trailer queen too. Going to be rough as guts and fun to drive. Might make it a mud plugger or a 2wd offroader just for the hell of it...

[mudbugga]

Had heard they burn oil (not in the cylinder though) because of a bad baffle design in the rocker cover (oil get trapped and overheats, turning to goo) - go figure.

Yup they do that
Makes it smoke like a bastard!
(The fault is in the LH rocker cover)
Suzuki have a modified rocker cover that costs millions of dollars but I just drilled some holes in the baffle. Fixed!

[Ginzu8]

mudbugga: can you explain to me how you did the mod to fix the problem? i have a 2L v6 engine so if its something that i can do then i will get it done..

[mudbugga]

mudbugga: can you explain to me how you did the mod to fix the problem? i have a 2L v6 engine so if its something that i can do then i will get it done..

I took off the LH rocker cover and drilled about 6 holes in the baffle with a 6mm drill.
I drilled the holes in the areas where the oil can drain easier, and also away from the areas where the oil gets flicked up. Quite easy to see when you have the RC off.

[Ginzu8]

cool thanks

[Ginzu8]

hey mudbugga. ONe more thing when you say u did the LH rocker cover. is this the pax side left when u in the car or left as when u look at the engine from the front when u work on it.

[mudbugga]

hey mudbugga. ONe more thing when you say u did the LH rocker cover. is this the pax side left when u in the car or left as when u look at the engine from the front when u work on it.

Yup LH side (passenger side, as if you are sitting in car looking forward) rocker cover.

[lneil]

mudbugga: can you explain to me how you did the mod to fix the problem? i have a 2L v6 engine so if its something that i can do then i will get it done..

I took off the LH rocker cover and drilled about 6 holes in the baffle with a 6mm drill.
I drilled the holes in the areas where the oil can drain easier, and also away from the areas where the oil gets flicked up. Quite easy to see when you have the RC off.

I have just done a similar mod while I had mine to bits to do the water-pump. Just drilled three 6mm holes on the lower edge of the splash plate. I did both left and right sides though, and thoroughly cleaned and de-gunged the covers before re-assembly. Not a hint of smoke since.

Although it looks like yours is for sale on Tardme? What are you gonna get if it sells?

[mudbugga]

Not mine

I still got my Zook........

[Ginzu8]

yeah my one is for sale. just sick of asking companys for mods to the car and get told it doesnt fit. only fits a 1.6 . Not to mention tyres choices are pretty limited with the 16" rims. so will either look for a 1.6 four door vitara/escudo or pajero..

[Ginzu8]

Can anyone tell me if the manual hubs for the 1.6L, will it fit the 2L v6?

[lneil]

Not 100% sure, as I haven't put manuals on the V6 yet, but I believe they should be exactly the same hub/axle set-up and should fit fine.

I believe it's just the larger brakes that change the front wheel and tyre set-up on the V6. (Lower control arms are also different but that has no bearing on hub fitment.)

[Ginzu8]

Well sold my vitara today. time to hunt for another one.....

[Weasel]

As most have said...manual 1600 injected for sure!

Probably repeating but consensus is as important as differing opinions sometimes...I reckon Vitara is the best way to get into 4wding for reasons you mention - easy to buy, maintain, one of best 4wds off the shelf and very user friendly for learning.

Definately:
Fit bash plates under front diff/crossmember (alloy diff and weak crossmember that is part of chassis so WOF'able)

Bash plates under gas tank (low) and mid crossmember

2" lift and 235/75's or 30" tyres (my GT Savero's was ORSUM on my scud)

Snorkel (air intake is behind headlight so very risky to not snorkel)

Either OME shocks/struts or cheap ones you can dinf info about on here (think BMW rear and Falcon front?)

Manual is 5.12 diffs so best ratio but can put locker in back if you want. I have LSD's.

Extractors (factory ones have water flow inside and crack/kill engine)

Ensure you fit recovery hooks very well - chassis is made of coke cans so be careful to reinforce rails well when fitting hooks

And if you're as clever as me you'll pick up a Goldwin with heated seats! Dont underestimate it for winter wheelin when gotta have windows down!

Enjoy!!!