Supercharge TD42

[Weasel]

Once get the swb TD42 whale on the road (just instrument cluster to finish sorting and paint her up) would be keen for more power...common option is to turbocharge...is there a reason everyone turbo's and Ive never heard mention of supercharging this engine? Would get nice low rev consistent power and torque wouldnt you?

[bobrocket]

Maybe have a read here - http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... percharger

[Swamped]

Is it a roadie or for offroading.

A few people in oz seem to have done it. Search their sites for more info.

sc are good on petrol engines offroad to give you a bit more grunt down low rather than needing the revs to spool a turbo.
As its a diesel its rev range isn't even close to the same as a petrol so you can sort a turbo to come in real low in the revs and it can run outta puff under 5 thou which is high enough on a poor TD42 . Turbos don't load the engine like a sc does, working off the exhaust which is better in my mind as is the relative ease/cheapness of fitting a turbo setup compared to a sc.
Extra belts I don't see as a plus either esp if its going to have mud and crap thrown all over them from offroading.
I don't think you get the same economy as a turbo.
I could see heat being an issue, getting it away from the engine and the sc as well.

Theres other issues I've overlooked but those are what comes to mind at the mo.

Darinz will have more to say on the topic.

It is doable.
I would turb it.

[mercutio]

turbo are alot cheaper and easier to setup there is alot more knowledge around about turbos so that makes it cheaper too

my view is if a SC was more efficient than a turbo the manufacturers would be running SCs instead of turbos on modern diesel engines but they are all running turbos

[albundy]

keith,
there are two boys in the club that have superchargers and they are always having problems. Shit Ned's supercharged engine is worst then mine and it's naturally aspitrated. This is a no brainer really, go the turbo. If I wasn't going back to Oz, that was the mod i would have been doing this coming year.
Al

[Weasel]

Cool thanx for the intel, would look like turboing the way to go

[Sticks]

Apparently you lose your engine braking when you supercharge as it's "boosting" all the time.

I did a fair bit of research (read weeks of trawling forums) on this and finally decided that when I manage to scrape the cash together I'd go turbo for my Saf.

[flyingbrick]

Apparently you lose your engine braking when you supercharge as it's "boosting" all the time.

I did a fair bit of research (read weeks of trawling forums) on this and finally decided that when I manage to scrape the cash together I'd go turbo for my Saf.

Diesels have shit engine braking anyway as there is no throttle body. there will be the same or more engine braking with a SC on there too because its taking energy to turn the SC bits round and round.

[Dace]

Apparently you lose your engine braking when you supercharge as it's "boosting" all the time.

I did a fair bit of research (read weeks of trawling forums) on this and finally decided that when I manage to scrape the cash together I'd go turbo for my Saf.

Diesels have shit engine braking anyway as there is no throttle body. there will be the same or more engine braking with a SC on there too because its taking energy to turn the SC bits round and round.

Nah, sorry dude, ya wrong.

Engine braking on a diesel is FAR better than a Petrol cause of a higher compression in the diesel.

And if ya go for a Toyota SC14 charger, ya have the clutch wired to disengage when ya accelerator is it the idle and low throttle position

[flyingbrick]

Apparently you lose your engine braking when you supercharge as it's "boosting" all the time.

I did a fair bit of research (read weeks of trawling forums) on this and finally decided that when I manage to scrape the cash together I'd go turbo for my Saf.

Diesels have shit engine braking anyway as there is no throttle body. there will be the same or more engine braking with a SC on there too because its taking energy to turn the SC bits round and round.

Nah, sorry dude, ya wrong.

Engine braking on a diesel is FAR better than a Petrol cause of a higher compression in the diesel.

And if ya go for a Toyota SC14 charger, ya have the clutch wired to disengage when ya accelerator is it the idle and low throttle position

sorry but you are wrong.

Your engine compression acts just like a spring during engine braking. not 100% of the energy is returned because of the valve timing but essentially it compresses the air and then that air pushes the piston back down with nearly the same force.

Why do diesels have exhaust brakes?

petrol engines give engine braking because the intake side is in vacuum with throttle plate closed. pressure differential, etc.

Toyota disengages the SC to save fuel! not to give engine braking!

it will engine brake just as much with an SC connected as dis connected as the throttle body works to put the intake in vacuum even with a SC.

edit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

[Crash bandicoot]

why not just grab a actual engine/exhaust brake off a toyota dynaor nissan Atlas? if ya gonna F around bolting go fast bits on, why not stick the go slow bit in aswell.

[Sticks]

Thanks for clearing that up flyingbrick.

Maybe the previous owners put reduction gears in my GQ or something because in low 4 going down a steep incline I have to accelerate to move faster than a crawl, it's a strange feeling but I didn't want to lose the control it offers.

Still need to give her some forced induction to get some some more grunt. Really battles climbing long hills and I'm getting tired of changing down when the 4.2 lump should have enough, or could have enough.

Super vs. Turbo:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/brainstuff/35455-turbo-charger-versus-super-charger-video.htm

http://www.perfectpower.com/technical_info/turbovs.asp

Look about halfway down this page for SC, it's a bit old (2003 but still):
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7055

These guys used to do supers and turbos, now only do turbos...:
http://www.safarisnorkel.com/turbo/turbo_product.htm

GQ Bible: http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=101692&start=0

There are way too many forums that argue the pro's and con's and a few hours trawling 4x4 forums will help you make up your mind.

From my point of view the gist of all the reading I've done is that:-
Turbos are cheaper, easier to fit and if you have the right one, give good bost from fairly low down.
Supers are expensive to fit, kill belts and are generally a bit of a pig (need more maintenance/ care/ nowse).

As multiple posts about this say "There are many reasons why there are more turbos than supers out there" and that's where they stop without giving the reasons. Awesome. Helpful. Thanks for nothing.

From what I can tell, there is way more support for turbos than supers on all the forums and that in itself is a good enough reason to go turbo in my opinion. Now to convince the wife...

[tallsam66]

Engine Braking.

Diesel engines control engine speed and power output by throttling the amount of fuel injected into the engine. A diesel has no air throttle. Because it has no air throttle, a diesel engine offers virtually no engine braking when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal. There just isn’t a pumping loss to retard engine speed as the piston descends on the intake stroke. Air is free to enter the cylinder, restricted only by the flow capacity of the air cleaner, turbocharger compressor, intercooler, intake manifold, cylinder head port and intake valve opening.

http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/17-How-An-Exhaust-Brake-Works

[Pedro]

Engine Braking.
A diesel has no air throttle. Because it has no air throttle, a diesel engine offers virtually no engine braking when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal. There just isn’t a pumping loss to retard engine speed as the piston descends on the intake stroke. Air is free to enter the cylinder, restricted only by the flow capacity of the air cleaner, turbocharger compressor, intercooler, intake manifold, cylinder head port and intake valve opening.

http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/17-How-An-Exhaust-Brake-Works

spoken by a shop selling exhaust brakes,
using thier logic that the compressed air in a diesel forces the piston down on the downward stroke , so the vacuum created by the piston on the downward stroke would help it back up, a 15psi Suction on a piston would not equal a 450psi comression stroke on a diesel, if you get no engine braking from a a diesel then why did i get 320klm out of a set of brake pads on my ute, and the v8 falcon get 50k?????

[Swamped]

Yeah my diesel engine brakes much better than its 4.2l petrol counterpart I found (Both patrols). They try to say its all driveline friction or some shit. I don't doubt the numbers but see what its actually like behind the wheel then make your mind up.
Soooo back to supercharging

[Sticks]

Supercharging according to 4WD Action

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/custom-4wds/42169-and-after-supercharger

Dude seems pretty stoked with supercharging his 80...

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/directory/43092-item

Still an expensive option but then again if you take your truck in to get a turbo fitted you're probably looking at between 4 and 5 grand anyway...

[flyingbrick]

Turbos are cheaper, easier to fit and if you have the right one, give good bost from fairly low down.
Supers are expensive to fit, kill belts and are generally a bit of a pig (need more maintenance/ care/ nowse).

This is not entirely true. Many people choose the SC because it requires less work to fit. Its easier for many people to make a mounting bracket for the SC rather than make a whole new exhaust manifold + downpipe for the turbo.

They don't have to be any more expensive to fit than a turbo and in my opinion could end up cheaper (again, no new manifold(s) needed).

Also remember that they do not need the oil feed and drain fittings that the turbos need.

As far as initial purchase price is concerned- look on Ebay for M90 superchargers. They are CHEAP as came out in quite a few factory cars in america and they are a very decent size for the td42. Rebuild kits are also cheap from ebay.

[Sticks]

True that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGdg2Fd2WQY&feature=related

[Nivapulledout]

on a whole a diesel due to its High CR will have better engine braking than a petrol. any Spring effect from the compressed gasses on the power(or non power if the there is no injection) is offset by the energy it takes to compress the air.
A petrol with the throttle closed is running on a vacuum which does not consume as much energy as compressing air.
the reason trucks (diesels) have exhaust brakes is because they are pulling(braking) 10 times the load and have almost 4 x as many brakes to repair/fix.thus the cost of fitting exhaust brakes is offset by the reduction in servicing costs. by releasing the air (jake brake) through a partially open exhaust valve, you are negating the spring effect of the compressed gas and absorbing as much energy as possible. a diesel will generally use more horsepower jake braking than it can make under full fuel.
the other exhaust brakes are just a flap valve which closes the exhaust off. thus causing the exhaust stroke to turn into a compression stroke. however these are not as efficient as jake brakes as you still get the spring effect off the power stroke.

sorry for the long winded post but wanted to clear up the engine brake misinformation. a diesel will always have better engine braking than a petrol of equivalent capacity.

[crazyclark31]

have to agree with that.(With nivapulledout)(haven't got quote thing sortted yet)
We tested the whole engine braking thing on a hill at the house. Got a petrol and a diesel patrol side by side put them in first low and let them go. by half way down the hill the petrol was way in front and was gathering speed rather quickly. Diesel was hardly moving.
As for the supercharger i wouldn't as when in sloppy mud or deep rivers the belt could get water/mud under it and slip.or break.
As for price still need a bigger exhaust otherwise IMO the power gains would be small.

[mudlva]

Engine Braking.
A diesel has no air throttle. Because it has no air throttle, a diesel engine offers virtually no engine braking when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal. There just isn’t a pumping loss to retard engine speed as the piston descends on the intake stroke. Air is free to enter the cylinder, restricted only by the flow capacity of the air cleaner, turbocharger compressor, intercooler, intake manifold, cylinder head port and intake valve opening.

http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/17-How-An-Exhaust-Brake-Works

spoken by a shop selling exhaust brakes,
using thier logic that the compressed air in a diesel forces the piston down on the downward stroke , so the vacuum created by the piston on the downward stroke would help it back up, a 15psi Suction on a piston would not equal a 450psi comression stroke on a diesel, if you get no engine braking from a a diesel then why did i get 320klm out of a set of brake pads on my ute, and the v8 falcon get 50k?????

because you drove the v8 as it should of been driven and when in a shitty old deisel you just plod along

[Pedro]

Engine Braking.
A diesel has no air throttle. Because it has no air throttle, a diesel engine offers virtually no engine braking when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal. There just isn’t a pumping loss to retard engine speed as the piston descends on the intake stroke. Air is free to enter the cylinder, restricted only by the flow capacity of the air cleaner, turbocharger compressor, intercooler, intake manifold, cylinder head port and intake valve opening.

http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/17-How-An-Exhaust-Brake-Works

not a lot of plodding in this ute.....

pedro


spoken by a shop selling exhaust brakes,
using thier logic that the compressed air in a diesel forces the piston down on the downward stroke , so the vacuum created by the piston on the downward stroke would help it back up, a 15psi Suction on a piston would not equal a 450psi comression stroke on a diesel, if you get no engine braking from a a diesel then why did i get 320klm out of a set of brake pads on my ute, and the v8 falcon get 50k?????

because you drove the v8 as it should of been driven and when in a shitty old deisel you just plod along