surf vs terrano vs challenger vs wizard

[jaypeegee]

Hi Guys
Apologies in advance for the reposted info here
I fish.
I have a small family
I will be buying one of the above vehicles
It will stay pretty stock. Its a land boat pretty much.
I will enroll in some basic 4WD ing courses/Join a club to be able to recognise my limits and be able to safely ferret my family around the place in search of yummy sea based food

Yes: i have posted this on a fishing forum. I have been a bit lazy to read the forum rules with regard to cross posting.
I found this forum with a late night ish lateral thought and the remarkable gift of google.
I would appreciate any opinions anyone here cares to share

My Post below

Our criteria are:
*No Towing need (Too poor to afford a boat,
*4WD ability (Obviously, But this is casual. Limited to Beach travel and some rocky work. Not full on mud paddling)
*Safety ( The fruit of my loins will be sat in the back. Lord of all he surveys!!)
*3Ltr (Smaller Terrano's and Surfs seems to have all the negative press reviews pointed at them and disproportionately high engine costs)
*Petrol. (Diesel may be better for towing/economy ratio's but seems to be a false economy for general driving Given Road User Tax etc. )
*Automatic.

Aside from that this will be our fambily car. We use Buses for work needs 99% of the time so day to day round toown fuel economies are not the highest consideration. Comfortable safe road travel (Ride and Noise levels) are essential.

Now sadly, I know sweet FA about engines etc and wish to leverage your knowledge and experience.
I have a few contacts scattered around the country and will be trusting these people to assist with the purchase process. So will likely refrain from the usual Turners or Tard me routes

My impressions and research so far indicate:

The Surf variants look most popular with folk. Good clearance. Lots of them around. Tick most of the boxes above. However also seem to be most expensive. But they are still in production. My crotchety Dad owned one once and liked the ride.

Terrano's follow. I have been reading complaints regarding lack of headroom But then they also seem to be more "bullet Proof" suspension wise than the Surf (Not my words) More truck than car.

Isuzu Wizards are a dark horse: Havent read much bad about em. Out of production n 2003 or so. But the MU's seem to be highly prized by the 4WD warriors. Priced competitively as well. Seems Izuzu know a bit about 4WD vehicles.

Mitsi Challenger: Again. murky negative info regarding drive train. Lots of positives about these Priced between the terrano and the Surf's. Could be more petrol hungry according to netfolk.

I have stayed away from Land cruisers, Prado's,Pajero's Bighorns etc as these seem to big for my needs.
If my ignorance is getting in the way of a good route of investigation then correct me and I will look into this


I know this thread will likely turn into a defence or promotion of your own particular vehicle or past choice there of so I am interested in why I should buy that object (Or stay the hell away)
Anyway. I didnt quite mean to write a novel. Apologies and my gratitude for your opinions

[keithal]

price range may also help?

[juz]

Any of the above will do what your after, with a set of All Terrain Tyres (ATs) and some recovery hooks mounted front and rear (just incase the sands a bit soft and you need a tow). Surfs and Terranos are good and parts are plentiful. I wouldnt rule out Bighorns or Pajeros either though. Bighorns (and pajeros
?) have more of a captains chair in the front so you sit higher than Terranos/Surfs and you may want to test drive each to see which you like best. Engines Terrano TD27 good bulletproof engine, Toyota 2Lte,1Kz are prone to cracking heads. Cant really comment on Isuzu or Mitsi engines as havent owned one.
Justin

[jaypeegee]

price range may also help?

Idiot!!!
(Me that is)
Yes
I guess 15k is about max although if I really needed to I could borrow up to 20 k.

[mike77]

Hey dude,

I did the same as you, pretty much the same requirements.
Don't know much about the others, but we brought a 3.0 V6 Challenger. stock at the mo, just new AT tyres, hooks, and slowing removing more and more dangly bits before they brake off! and basic gear to go on club runs. My mate also in the same vein brought a '96 2.7surf.

What I've found is:

Petrol - for your reason above. It is only very slightly more expensive than diesel (compared to a diesel pajero we owned in normal driving - only saving is if your speedo broke . I do have to drive bloody slow TBH, and get 12 ish L/100kms getting to work. But just under 11 on long trip. That is the exception. BUT you could get 14L or more very easily.

Heaps of usable power off road, good up the sand dunes. Just need more traction in the mud.

Noticalbly less room inside than ya Bighorns, Pajero's and our falcon, and slightly less than the surf. But heaps of storage spots for all the bits and pieces, straps shackles etc etc.

We have 3 kids, and is a great car for a day out and having fun. I since find I'm carrying alot more 'stuff' camping gear, food, recovery gear, (even helmets this weekend!) etc etc, this is just for the day trips. So I am considering going back to a Pajero for sale up the road. We can pack it up even further for longer trips.

To me the bigger trucks, like the Pajero's and others mean your pushing around 2.2t plus gear (opposed to 1.8ish) so I would be definately looking a diesel.

Best thing is there's heaps of petrol chalengers to choose from, ours had never been off road or abused (til now), and they're cheap and in good condition.

[mike77]

Hey, just read your price range after I wrote the above.

You'll get a bloody nice what ever you buy for that money. I only paid 6k for mine, so if I had your cash, I'ld get a diesel landcruiser or safari!

The smaller wagons (with a family) are just a compromise, especially when you go away camping!

[Smurf]

I recently picked up a 1996 grand cherokee and have found it is too small inside to fit our famly of 5+ and all the necessary camping gear for a 5 day camping excursion.
I am looking to replace it with either a LWB 3 Litre V6 Pajero or a 1KZ powered LWB Prado/Landcruiser, which also gives the option of 7 seats. and a bigger boot space. I am also considering a 1KZ Surf, not a lot bigger than te Jeep we have but the boot is still a fair bit bigger and I am also familiar with the vehicles.
My budget is smaller than yours, under 10K.

[jaypeegee]

Hey, just read your price range after I wrote the above.

You'll get a bloody nice what ever you buy for that money. I only paid 6k for mine, so if I had your cash, I'ld get a diesel landcruiser or safari!

The smaller wagons (with a family) are just a compromise, especially when you go away camping!

Giddaty and thanks
Wife is pretty risk averse so She wants low Km's and latish model
That kinda rules out the Wizard straight away

Really appreciate your words
Given my budget and wifes risk issues It kinda rules out the Surf Option unless there is a bargain hiding somewhere and is revealed at the right time and place!
Shivers they hold their value!
But i admit to rather liking the look of the Mitsi. (And Pops used to sell parts for em so there may still be connections to be leveraged

Idiot Part two

I have not mentioned that I am in the hunt for a later post 2000 model with low KMS) So that means my budget isnt quite as good as it seemed before.


I am sorry not to have posted this initially
Still a bit jaded after Sunday night

[pruggerdore]

how long are you expecting too own this vehicle. you do realize that once you have had it in the salt water even just a little bit it will be a death sentence for it. the rust will explode out of it within a few years. your spending a lot of money and maybe your expectations from a vehicle you intend to use as a fishing wagon is going to leave you disappointed. perhaps a cheap second vehicle for the beach would be a better option.

[jaypeegee]

how long are you expecting too own this vehicle. you do realize that once you have had it in the salt water even just a little bit it will be a death sentence for it. the rust will explode out of it within a few years. your spending a lot of money and maybe your expectations from a vehicle you intend to use as a fishing wagon is going to leave you disappointed. perhaps a cheap second vehicle for the beach would be a better option.

How long: Not sure Probably less than 5 years
Yes: That salt water eats everything. Do you not think a judicious cleaning carwashing regime will mitigate this at all?
(Honest Question)
Second vehicle I guess is an option. Was trying to limit the amount of cost, But you may have exposed a flaw in this route. Anyone else care to comment on this?
Are there any treatments I can apply to slow this down?
How do vehicles in CHCH (Salt on roads) and Rotorua (Minerals) cope?
I know many people that use vehicles to do just this: I guess I will ask them also

[pouw]

Hiya, well I have owned almost all the vehicles you have listed at one point or another, except the Challenger, though the V6 Pajero I had might compare when it comes to fuel economy.

For $15k you should be able to get a pretty decent truck in any of those variants but here are my comments specifically based on what you mentioned i.e not looking at them as hard offroaders:

Surf
-----
1994 - 3.OL Diesel - Good Truck, reliable engine if serviced and looked after, getting a bit old most of them though, and higher K's. Should be able to get a pretty good one for less than 10k.
1996 + 3.0 diesel - even better truck, more modern inside, bigger longer wheel base for more room for the back passenger, lower k's, should be able to get a pretty good one for around the 12k mark
3.0 Petrol - Thirsty but comfortable, pretty cheap at the moment simply because of the cost to run.

Terrano
--------
1994 and before (I think) - 2.7 Diesel, good basic truck, reliable, but getting old, and high k's. Should be able to get a good one for at most 7k
1994 and before 3.0 Petrol - thirsty, very very thirsty. Other than that, same as the diesel.
1995 + 3.0 or 2.7 Diesel - nice shape, comfy ride, very similar to the Surf of 1996 and beyond. I liked driving it.

Challenger
-----------
Good comfortable wagon when I have ridden in them, only negative things I have heard is that they are a bit thirsty in the petrol form, but the 2.8 Diesel is not too bad (same engine as Pajero I think). A good one shouldnt set you back more than 8 - 10k would be my guess.

Wizard
--------
3.1 Diesel - great engine, I havent heard anything bad about them, I owned the older model bighorn and it just kept going.

The truth is, no matter what you choose, get an inspection done before you buy. None of the vehicles you have mentioned will cost you anywhere near $15k (unless you get a really late model, immaculate Surf that never went more than to the local shops) and all will suit your purpose.

Don't discount diesel as a false economy, If you put the same model vehicle in petrol and diesel next to each other, I still think diesel will be quite a bit cheaper to run, even when you include RUC and Rego.

Good luck
If you are looking

[jaypeegee]

Cheers mate
Absolutely will be inspected prior to purchasing
I have a contact or two around the place and will be relying on them to filter out the less desirable options.

I will without exception be looking for as late a model as possible. What I will save in spending on lifts and other 4WD specific mods I will spend on the modernity and inherent ability of the model.

I am a fisherman primarily and this is what I sink my money into (Tiny amounts that is)
I would loooove to have some big grunter that didnt give a gram of #### when confronted with ANY terrain. but I just want to get myself and family safely from Point A to B and back again

I guess 50% of the time I will be road bound. Then the other times I will be fishing wherever the hell I want/can get to (Given the right vehicle) I tend to fish over night mainly and want to be able to get out of any situation without causing my wife concern. So a degree of over engineering and robustness is desired.

Fuel Cost wise: I am used to having a mazda demio. But before that I had a 2000 740i. That is with the 4.1 litre V8. So i am used to driving conservatively to offset the literage. I am almost certain to go with petrol. Although the FIL is pretty old school and I will look to him for further advice re diesel.(he knows shiteloads about Diesel and costs having been in the farming implement industry since his childhood) Plus he is canny for saving money.

Its a pretty exciting journey for me learning about the potential here. I am trying very hard not to get swayed by the aesthetics of the particular vehicles. Coz some of these beasties look pretty nice. I need to temper that desire with a good sense of working out what is under the hood and its capabilities and not get swayed by a good looking lemon!!

[gimmemud]

Why do you say wizard is ruled out? Just having a quick look at trademe and that seems to be one of the only ones that fit in your criteria.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 970769.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 296131.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 216256.htm
Just to show a few. I personally would be opting for a 3.4V6 surf, but I'm a toyota guy, and as you say they are more expensive and slightly higher kms. Used a wizard for a few months and it was very comfortable, especially on long trips which happened frequently and plenty of grunt. Couldn't tell you much about fuel consumption as is the beauty of company fuel cards i just didn't care.
For rust proofing there are electronic rust protection kits you can get or good old fashioned Fish oil. Had a work mate who always got his cars coated with fish oil twice a year and regularly drove on the dunes, rocks etc looking for good fishing spots and dunked the ass in whenever he launched the boat and never seemed to have any problems with rust.

[jaypeegee]

Why do you say wizard is ruled out? Just having a quick look at trademe and that seems to be one of the only ones that fit in your criteria.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 970769.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 296131.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 216256.htm
Just to show a few. I personally would be opting for a 3.4V6 surf, but I'm a toyota guy, and as you say they are more expensive and slightly higher kms. Used a wizard for a few months and it was very comfortable, especially on long trips which happened frequently and plenty of grunt. Couldn't tell you much about fuel consumption as is the beauty of company fuel cards i just didn't care.
For rust proofing there are electronic rust protection kits you can get or good old fashioned Fish oil. Had a work mate who always got his cars coated with fish oil twice a year and regularly drove on the dunes, rocks etc looking for good fishing spots and dunked the ass in whenever he launched the boat and never seemed to have any problems with rust.

Hi Tim
I see your trademe link and raise you one
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/isuzu/wizard/auction-417415798.htm

Wizard is likely out of the running due to being out of prod 2003 iirc
Still Like the looks of that vehicle
But i guess I am putting my question in front of this community to see what the functionality of each of these examples is
If it was based on looks alone Then probably Wizard Vs Challenger?

Then Terrano then Surf

Maybe?

[kiwipete]

How do vehicles in CHCH (Salt on roads)

We do not have salt on our roads.

[jaypeegee]

How do vehicles in CHCH (Salt on roads)

We do not have salt on our roads.

My Bad
How do you guys manage the snow there?
Or is that Dunners
Or just a Nth Island myth?

[NJV6]

We use a non corrosive salt, much dearer than salt but it is calcium magnesium acetate and seems to work pretty well.

[jaypeegee]

We use a non corrosive salt, much dearer than salt but it is calcium magnesium acetate and seems to work pretty well.

Cheers man
Ya learn something everyday!!

[Cameron]

Wizard is likely out of the running due to being out of prod 2003 iirc

why does this matter to you?

[jaypeegee]

Wizard is likely out of the running due to being out of prod 2003 iirc

why does this matter to you?

Me not so much. SWMBO moreso. i guess availability of parts etc.
Although if you think this is not a concern please let me know why.
To be honest: There is a white Wizard down the road from me that I ogle each time I ride past.
I think they look great and I know a couple of people that have the MU's and rate em pretty highly.
Remember: I know a little about cars. With little being the operative word.

[Cameron]

fair enough. parts for vehicles even back into the 70s and 80s aren't really a big deal. even oddball stuff can be sorted outwithout toooooo much drama.

I've owned a pajero, and that's it, for 4x4s. I do rather like it though. In my opinion a vehicle that's reasonably capable, whilst still having good road manners and being reliable (and not fragile). I'd buy another for sure.
in isuzus, avoid the 3.0 diesel. the 3.1 is fine. the v6s seem ok? I used to strop round in an '02 wizard v6 in a previous job, and it went awesomely. Never had it off road though.

[jaypeegee]

fair enough. parts for vehicles even back into the 70s and 80s aren't really a big deal. even oddball stuff can be sorted outwithout toooooo much drama.

I've owned a pajero, and that's it, for 4x4s. I do rather like it though. In my opinion a vehicle that's reasonably capable, whilst still having good road manners and being reliable (and not fragile). I'd buy another for sure.
in isuzus, avoid the 3.0 diesel. the 3.1 is fine. the v6s seem ok? I used to strop round in an '02 wizard v6 in a previous job, and it went awesomely. Never had it off road though.

Sweet: I posted a TM link previously which is a Gold Wizard with gold mags
2001 model
My son would just about crap himself if i bought that. He is a 7 year old ganstaa
It IS pretty bling tho.
Might lose that allure covered with mud sand and shite tho!
****************************

Just before I forget:
I would like to sincerely thank all the questions , Opinions and answers I have been recieving in this thread.
I have bookmarked it and am referring to it regularly.
Please be assured that your opinions etc are appreciated immensely.
I shall be using this info to help shape my wifes impressions and opinions when purchase time comes round.

[SMOKEY]

jaypeegee , there are to many flaws in all your questions and answers , in no particular order, you want to be able to take your go any where , but got to be latish model good looking 4X4 any where, at night in any situation with no back up vehicle and have your wife and family feel safe , and you with NO , off road experience. Love the DREAM, but that is what it is a DREAM. Sure you need to start some where and I think you need to start at the beginning, you need to go out with fisher people that have been living the dream, what sort of vehicles are they using, get some 4WDing experience, beach driving is not for the inexperienced. If you are looking at just getting past the car park to your fishing spot or camping area any 4WD you are looking at will be fine but to me that isn't the picture you are painting.

MEMORIES LAST LONGER THAN DREAMS,

FITZY.

[jaypeegee]

jaypeegee , there are to many flaws in all your questions and answers , in no particular order, you want to be able to take your go any where , but got to be latish model good looking 4X4 any where, at night in any situation with no back up vehicle and have your wife and family feel safe , and you with NO , off road experience. Love the DREAM, but that is what it is a DREAM. Sure you need to start some where and I think you need to start at the beginning, you need to go out with fisher people that have been living the dream, what sort of vehicles are they using, get some 4WDing experience, beach driving is not for the inexperienced. If you are looking at just getting past the car park to your fishing spot or camping area any 4WD you are looking at will be fine but to me that isn't the picture you are painting.

MEMORIES LAST LONGER THAN DREAMS,

FITZY.

Hi Fitzy
Not quite sure what you mean here as none of your points seem exclusive of one another:

I want a latish model 4wd (Not Awd or soft roader) That I will use at night or day to go fishing say past red rocks (devils gate in wellington) as the most strenuous/demanding local option... I have proposed 4 options that seem to address my needs from my previous research.
Sure it would be great to have a functional vehicle that is good looking. But i am here to have you and your forum brothers/sisters address the functionality of my proposed choices. If it ends up being an ugly sucker that is a capable, comfortable and safe ride then so be it.

I have been before fishing across night with experienced people that use Surf's and Terranos down beaches and over rocks. Which is how I caught this bug.

Yes I have no experience . Which is why i have written i will be seeking education and experience specifically to learn how to deal with crossing Rocks and Sand and Off roading in general.
Please also bear in mind I first learned to drive in a SWB landrover in 1978 at the age of 11 or so on the property I grew up in in the Mighty Hawkes Bay, Helping my Father remove felled Poplar trees that had been blown over. ALthough this qualifies me to do pretty much bugger all. It means I have a healthy respect for my limitations and the environment I am in in any situation.


Lastly: You are incorrect. Memories can be stolen in a flash where as a dream can live for a lifetime.


If you could contribute positively to this thread I would be in your debt Fitzy
As I am to the other posters.

Thanks for your time

EDIT/ I re read your post and one thing does stick....
The absense of a back up vehicle: That is a good point. Dont worry: I will be going with others or have a hell of a good exit strategy if not!
But this is a salient point. and i am in your debt for raising it. This sort of experience is what I was hoping to gain by posting here. Cheers

[mike77]

I reckon just go get something,
Don't worry if it's pre 2003 or whatever, don't worry too much about kms, as long as it's in good condition
And most importantly don't worry too much about what wife thinks, just get something that suits the purpose for what you want to do. She'll feel safe as soon as ya show her the capabilities of your wagon and ya driving.
I only say this, as my wife used to freak just heading down a boat ramp - I kid you not. Now she gets behind the wheel and has a good time.

I reckon any of the cars you mentioned will do it.

Your budget will get exactly what ya need, but not nessesarily everything you want.

My budget was alot smaller, but found an absolutely mint challenger (as per my post - and slowing getting more and more less mint) now I'm always concerned about damage. I need to just stove it into a bank now and be done with it!

[jaypeegee]

I think with the wisewords here and lots of perving I will likely go the challenger route

Most bang for buck
Car like on the road
affordable

Thanks all
I'll lurk some more and post when I have aquired the damn thing

[Vapo]

Dude, for that amount of money you can get a Landcruiser with all lockable diffs and some big AS tyres for that deep sand out the end of Red Rocks. The sand and salt can't be good for them though

For rust, my crazy science teacher back in the day tried to tell me this! "bare some chassis, and bolt some big lumps of zinc to it"


HE was an idiot.

[Lynx]

Dude, for that amount of money you can get a Landcruiser with all lockable diffs and some big AS tyres for that deep sand out the end of Red Rocks. The sand and salt can't be good for them though

For rust, my crazy science teacher back in the day tried to tell me this! "bare some chassis, and bolt some big lumps of zinc to it"


HE was an idiot.

That does work to a degree, ever heard on an aneroid?

[MikeL200]

Dude, for that amount of money you can get a Landcruiser with all lockable diffs and some big AS tyres for that deep sand out the end of Red Rocks. The sand and salt can't be good for them though

For rust, my crazy science teacher back in the day tried to tell me this! "bare some chassis, and bolt some big lumps of zinc to it"


HE was an idiot.

That does work to a degree, ever heard on an aneroid?

Methinks the word you are looking for is "Anode" and you can buy them from boating shops.

[Lynx]

Dude, for that amount of money you can get a Landcruiser with all lockable diffs and some big AS tyres for that deep sand out the end of Red Rocks. The sand and salt can't be good for them though

For rust, my crazy science teacher back in the day tried to tell me this! "bare some chassis, and bolt some big lumps of zinc to it"


HE was an idiot.

That does work to a degree, ever heard on an aneroid?

Methinks the word you are looking for is "Anode" and you can buy them from boating shops.

Yeah thats the one, couldnt think of it at the time, been years since i pissed around with them.