Can someone explain the real difference between the two.
As Beam axil is getting harder to find, is there any real difference between Spring and Torsion As I see it body lift is one for the springs, but it is also limitted by the CV arm and bump stops. So my reasoning is that A Zuk is as good as a Pajero say or even a Cherokee or the other way around
I follow a safari around a lot in my first year 4wd , the torsion did its job but the safari with its coil spring just did it better thats why i brought one and retired the ute
i have torsion bars in my surf and dad had coils in his independant prado. prart from the prado being newer there didnt seem much diff. except with torsion you dont have to get new front springs to lift. though it does stiffen up a little
will add with the mazda ute sitting on the flat it has 18mm of travel before bump stops , has a lot of downward travel, so everybig bump hole what ever that force is then applied to the suspension arms and mounts, not the springs taking the load, there is a limit to how long you can hammer something then it fails,
The main deal is traction.
With a soild axle, as one wheel is pushed up, it has to affect what the other wheel, (which is attached to the same axle) is doing. So piush 1 wheel up the other wheel will be pushed in the oppisite direction. The more compliant the suspension set up (be it colils or leaves) the better teh traction will be, because at least one wheel will be getting forced down into terra firma.
Ifs (independant front suspension) is exactly as it states. Each wheel is totally independant from the other. Hence if one wheel lifts, it doesn't put any pressure on the opposing wheel, and you can loose all front traction because the one wheel on the ground just doesn't have enough pressure down on it. Standard 4wd,s witrh IFS are pretty difficult to make articulate because of the length of the upper and/or lower arms, Driveshafts to the diff and 2 cv's on each side.
IFS can be made to articulate really well, but you have to start from scratch, and have a track width of a Mack truck. But if you want to really see it working, have a look at some desert racers from the States.
This is an overly simplified explanation of why the soild (beam) axle is the best option, feel free to add on/offer new opinions on this one guys.
Ugly is a state of mind..... and the state of my truck!
A torsion bar is just a straight coil spring... they are different ways of achieving the same thing. The limiting factor is the amount of travel allowed by the arms... which is going to be around the same amount regardless of model... although longer a-arms should equate to more travel... although again a narrower truck will need less travel to provide the same effect... although that will make it less stable (see the sheffield mudplug where pretty much the Suzukis fell over a lot (and H2O but lets not go there )... although... although... although...
SupraLux wrote:(see the sheffield mudplug where pretty much the Suzukis fell over a lot (and H2O but lets not go there )... although... although... although...
Totally agree with rokhound on this one. If I fail an obstacle it is usually because of the front end. That's why I want to put a mk/mq patrol front axle with 4.88 diffs. Mind you, if you aren't wanting to do serious shit 4wdrivng all the bloody time ( hey boys) then I would probably not give a damn about the differences between a solid axle and IFS. Just reindex the torsion bars then wind the lift up. You will still get the same spring. Just remember that it is a long peice of steel rod under the truck that will get bashed, I have a slght bend in one from riding over rocks Al
Can someone explain the real difference between the two. As Beam axil is getting harder to find, is there any real difference between Spring and Torsion As I see it body lift is one for the springs, but it is also limitted by the CV arm and bump stops. So my reasoning is that A Zuk is as good as a Pajero say or even a Cherokee or the other way around
I thought we were only comparing between a torsion ifs and coil sprung ifs
No comparison really. If you go offroad, go beam axle
Have to buy a nissan pootrol
I think even 110 landys are or have alreday gone IFS.
Some of the new stuff has fairly good articualtion, (100 series, Rangey etc) But still difficult to alter at a later stage
Ugly is a state of mind..... and the state of my truck!
im fairly certain that defenders dont have IFS. They have solid front axles. The new disco has IFS but the series 2 disco didnt. Im not sure about the new rangys but the p38 rangy had a solid axle aswell.
Going back to the original question about the difference between independent coils versus independent torsion bars....
Some things I can think off:
Unsprung weight versus sprung weight.
Unsprung weight is the weight of the vehicle not supported by the springs, diffs, axles, suspension arms, wheels etc. The less unsprung weight, the more readily the wheels will adapt to irregularities in the terrain (wether on-road or off-road), the easier it is for the dampers to control the suspension and the more comfortable the ride.
In a coil sprung vehicle, half the weight of the coil spring is generally considered to be part of the unsprung weight.
Not so in a torsion bar equiped vehicle. Here the weight of the torsion bar is part of the sprung weight.
Space.
A torsion bar can lie alongside an existing chassis rail and torsion bar suspension as such tends to take up less space than coil springs.
Suspension Travel.
Generally speaking, coil spring will ultimately allow greater suspension travel. Although other factors come into play here as well, length of suspension arms etc. And there are exceptions of course.
Cloggy
1992 Land Rover Discovery V8i, 5 speed, 12000lbs winch, Salisbury rear, 110 front, 65mm spring lift, dents in every panel, Rallywoods pinstriping.
I thought patrols we're going independant all round
It's only a matter of time before we're all driving suzuki's they still come factory Beam
As for IFS I would put my money on coils. As you can get a longer spring in there so it'll be softer SO off road you'd get a better ride. There are some pretty good aftermarket kits around but mostly for coils.
Grab a locker and flex won't matter, cos if you've got a wheel off the ground you'll still have traction
As I see it body lift is one for the springs, but it is also limitted by the CV arm 
)... although... although... although...
( hey boys) then I would probably not give a damn about the differences between a solid axle and IFS. Just reindex the torsion bars then wind the lift up. You will still get the same spring. Just remember that it is a long peice of steel rod under the truck that will get bashed, I have a slght bend in one from riding over rocks 
