Vitara gearing?

[Pico42]

So I am thinking ahead to lowering the gearing in our vitara and am trying to decide between changing the ring and pinion gears (4xFourart), or changing transfer gears (trail tough).

I recall reading on one aftermarket suppliers website about one or the other being a better option, but can't for the life of me find the website again.

Any informed opinions out there? Thanks.

[tow99]

From what ive read changing the transfer gears will only lower the gear ratio in low range so your hi range is not effected so your top speed or rpm at 100 kmph will remain the same whereas if u change out your diffs then it will change both aswell as be more work. But the problem is with the larger reduction in the transfer box more torgue is put through your driveshafts so they might need a good looking over so you dont get any nasty surprises. Hope this helps

[Rotazuk]

As Two99 said the trans gears only reduce low range and the diff gears will lower both . However to lower the diff gears you are going above a 5.125 ratio and to do this the pinion gear gets smaller and thus weaker . Catch 22 in all aspects .

If you only offroad it , t/case gears and try an live with the high range . If its a daily driver then get the diff gears but don't wheel it too hard as the front diff is weak to start with .

If you just won lotto one of the underdrives would be the best answer , but $1400usd .

Chris

[loppee]

Hi Ross
Get the crawler gears. I have them in mine and they work great,I compare my low 3rd crawler gear to a standard 1st low gear.Its good to be able to go slower and if ya put a diff lock in the rear (a air locker would be best) ya can go places easy without thrashing ya Zuk to much lol. Some trips I now have to use high range for the faster bits like over 40km and low 4th 5th for the slower bits, but I can go really slow if I want. The down side is low revesre is a bit slow so some times ya can end up changing up to high range to spin the wheels fast enough to get out and then change back down again to go forward ya can end up doing that a couple of times or not lol.But with a winch on the front of the Zuk ya can pull yourself out and have a choice of gears to use like a higher gear for struck in mud or a lower gear for winching up rock etc As for the high range on the road I drive it at 100km and mine is on 31s and can do that all day if needed.
Hope you and Deb had a good christmas and wish you both the best for the new year.
Cheers Woody

[Pico42]

Hey Woody,

I didn't realize you had crawler gears. That explains a lot. Good to know you can run 31s in high ratio with no real difficulties, we noticed a bit of a slump with ours, but didn't drive it long enough to know whether it would annoy us. Sounds like the low ratios are close to the older hilux's, which is about what we are after.

We were working towards transfer gears, until I found a supplier of diff gears via an Aussie forum. Cost is €350, or about $AU450. Waiting to hear back about cost of shipping.

Trying to decide now because we are also trying to source a steel diff and if we go the diff gear route, it will all get done at once. And thus avoid the whole broken front diff scenario. Both options require someone else to put them in for us.

Difficult bit of course is that we are not driving the vehicle at the moment, so can't just pop out and check things. Still to get one of the winches installed too.

Quiet Christmas, stayed in Port Hedland. Looking to maybe get home to NZ at Easter for some offloading. Anything planned for then (Zukfest is 2013)? Did you have a good Christmas?

Cheers
Ross and Deborah.

[Pico42]

As Two99 said the trans gears only reduce low range and the diff gears will lower both . However to lower the diff gears you are going above a 5.125 ratio and to do this the pinion gear gets smaller and thus weaker . Catch 22 in all aspects .

If you only offroad it , t/case gears and try an live with the high range . If its a daily driver then get the diff gears but don't wheel it too hard as the front diff is weak to start with .

If you just won lotto one of the underdrives would be the best answer , but $1400usd .

Chris

How much weaker do the pinions get? Is it stll reasonable to run them woth 31 tyres,assuming a steel diff? I have read some poor reviews of the underdrives (that's the undertaker and the like?) on some of the US forums, sounds like the build quality is adequate at best.

[churchill]

Quite a few stores have stopped selling the 5.72 gears and I suspect this is due the strength issues from some manufacturers.

Personally if I could find a 2.5:1 transfer ratio I would be happy using the standard 5.13:1 diffs with 31" tyres although the 5.72:1 diffs would make it better all round if they were strong enough.

For me the Crawler gears would be brilliant for rock work but might be a little slow for nz tracks that require tread clearing, but a lower ratio transfer would be good addition to a vitara. I can't find any transfer gears higher ratio than the Crawler ones.

[loppee]

When driving on the road we pump the tyres up and dont let the revs drop to much, have caught up to cars and been held up by them on the open road a lot.Do you have free flows and a 2" exhaust on ya Zuk? My air filter is a unifilter which helps with a little more hp.I also have the steel front diff both banjo and nugget are steel with a Woodys custom skid plate under it.I need all the hp I can get as the Zuk is putting on weight every year like my rocksliders -winch bar and winch -fuel tank bash plate-front diff skid plate-twin battery set- wrx subrau front seats-trip box and soon to be made is a rear bumper and a roll cage in the rear half.
With my crawler gears I can use 4th or 5th low to clear mud no probs, or even 3rd if I want as I have more choices than a standard low box.You will have to have a drive of mine off road next time you are up or over in chch and see what ya think.
Cheers Woody

[Pico42]

Ok, have looked closer at the undertaker and found that it may be geared too low.

"This 1.5 to 1 Underdrive allows you to achieve proper gearing even with 35 inch tires. Now with 33’s you can use 4.62 axle gears for perfect highway operation or 35’s with 4.88 axle gears"

We have 5.125 diff gears and 31's.

[churchill]

I have a set of 4.88's if needed.

[Pico42]

Hmmmm, if the 5.83s are weaker than the 5.12s, the 5.12s would be weaker than the 4.88s? So the undertaker makes for a stronger driveline in that regard... and allows for further upping of the tyre size! And costs $1350AU.

What are the tooth counts for 4.88s?

But would have to allow for swapping the ring & pinions and shortening/lengthening the driveshafts. Who can do the driveshafts in Dunedin?

[churchill]

39/8. The diffs are the later model GV units I swapped out of my truck. The rear one should fit in fine and the front one currently has a 22 spline head in it but it needs the backlash set up in it that I can do for you. The front mounting is also modified to fit the standard Vitara mount as opposed to some weird gv mount it came with.

To be honest the driveline struggles with 31"s so I would be careful with anything over this.

I might be selling my whole front end with an air locker in it, 5.13:1 ratio along with the 26 spline cv's with high articulation boots, RHS diff support bush and warn free wheel hubs. I also have a rear 5.13:1 ratio LSD I would be looking to move on but I need to talk to someone about selling this first.

[Pico42]

If they are from a GV, are they steel diffs? Could be keen. Had read of the odd 3rd member mount on the later GVs and that they need to be modified.

Let me know what you are doing with this hardware. Cheers.

[loppee]

Hi Ross & Deb
Happy new year to ya both.
Can you e mail me the contact number for Ben, the guy ya got the rear disk brake kit off for ya Escudo as I am sick of drum brakes on the rear. Did you fit yours on ya Zuk ya self?
woodysengineering@xtra.co.nz
Cheers Woody.

[churchill]

If they are from a GV, are they steel diffs? Could be keen. Had read of the odd 3rd member mount on the later GVs and that they need to be modified.

Let me know what you are doing with this hardware. Cheers.

Sold the rear LSD but still have the front locker hub's and CV's. The front locker's a 5.12 in an alloy case.

The rear 4.88 is steel and the front is alloy. Both are open.

Pm me if there's anything you want.

[Pico42]

Have a look in this thread Woody,

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... 23&t=23444

You need to source the calipers yourself, they are about $100.

Yep, fitted it myself and found it reasonably simple, so should be a walk in the park for you.

Do you have 5dr calipers & vented discs on the front?

Happy new year to you both as well.

[crzyfl]

Here are a couple links to gearing calc

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-cor ... lators.htm

http://www.planet4x4.net/forums/calculator.php

Here is the various trans and diffs in the different years


89 2dr 1.3L carb 5speed man. 5.625
89-95 2dr 1,6L TBI 5speed man. 5.125
89-95 2dr 1,6L TBI 3speed auto. 4.625
91 4dr 1.6L TBI 3speed auto. 4.625
91 4dr 1.6L TBI 5speed man. 5.375
92-98 4dr 1.6L MPFI 5speed man. 5.125
92-98 4dr 1.6L MPFI 3speed auto. 4.30
92-98 4dr 1.6L MPFI 4speed auto. 5.125
94-98 2dr 1.6L MPFI 5speed man. 5.125
94-98 2dr 1.6L MPFI 3speed auto. 4.30
94-98 2dr 1.6L MPFI 4speed auto. 5.125
96-98 X90 1.6L MPFI auto or man. 4.625

Here is a copy of a write up with gearbox ratios



Transfer Case: Another area in which gearing is important is when negotiating difficult situations off road. Slow and easy keeps things under control and breakage to a minimal. The problem is that even the stock low range gears of 1.81:1 in the transfer case are still too high for many off-road situations. This causes over use of the clutch on a manual or heat build-up in an automatic transmission. It also means hitting obstacles with more speed than desirable to keep from bogging down or stalling. The solution is to install 4.24:1 transfer case gears. These only change the low range and provide a 134% reduction which means a significant increase in power delivery to the tires.



Manual Transmission: The 5 speed manual transmission used in Suzuki's is quite capable of handling the abuse of off-road use. Unless you are going with a 200+ horsepower engine your stock transmission should be all you will ever need. The gear ratios are 1=3.78:1, 2=1.95:1, 3=1.37:1, 4=1.0:1, 5=0.8:1 and R=3.65:1.



Clutch: Upgrading the stock clutch to a stronger one should be done either during your build or as soon as your stock one starts to fade. A good performance clutch will handle the stress of off-road use with less slippage and more power to the wheels.




3 Speed Automatic: The 3 speed automatic transmission used in Suzuki's is also considered to be a strong transmission. It is called a 3L30 or TH180 and was also used by GM in the Chevette. It has a lock-up torque converter and gear ratios of 1=2.40:1, 2=1.47:1, D=1.0:1 and R=2.0:1




4 Speed Automatic: The 4 speed automatic is also a good transmission. It is called a 03-72LE and is also used by Kia in the Sportage and Sorento. It also has a lock-up torque converter and gear ratios of 1=2.83:1, 2=1.49:1, 3=1.0:1, D=0.73:1 and R=2.7:1