Cam belt Versus Timing Chain

[Big Kev]

I have a real dislike of cam belts having had 2 cars that have had belt breaks resulting in major repair bills , as I am new to 4WD I thought I would get a Diesel 4x4 with a timing chain , however apart from the Nissan Terrano I don't know what has belts & what has chains so could anyone give me a heads up on makes & models with timing chains, and yes I am paranoid

[Jay]

Gidday Kev,

Most Nissan's run chains..... If you went for something with a belt, for piece of mind, change as soon as purchase - It's not a big or costly job - and your sorted for 80 thou-ish km's.

Jay

[Colinl]

Belts are far easier to change than chains.

both have pros and cons.

My personal POV

Chains : Noisier, Lasts longer vs belt, Does need changing overtime due to stretching, more durable, more complex system and harder to change.

Belts: Quieter, easier to change but less service time, less durable (external to motor housing so more chance of crap getting in)

In saying this my ZD30 has 300,000+km and it is still not rattling (touch wood).

Another note, just because its a chain drive dosent mean it'll last forever. The old mans Daihatsu K3-VEII motors chain is stretched like shit and sounds like a tractor on star up.

General rule of thumb to purchasing. If you pay #### all you get #### all

[Suza]

Get a Safari with a TD42 they don't have a belt or a chain they are gear driven and built to go for ever

[mercutio]

there are good and bad designed chain motors mercedes timing chains will do 300,000 ks happily without major stretching even more if the motor is looked after.
But my neighbour had a Vectra that the cam chain gave up on at 60,000 ks Holden paid for his rebuild as it was still under warranty they had sent him a letter in the mail about a recall relating to the cam chains but it reached him a few days too late.

so do some research about the engines before making any decisions

[T-mo]

Get a Safari with a TD42 they don't have a belt or a chain they are gear driven and built to go for ever

What Suza said... Also, they over almost everything you can point them at...

[Big Kev]

Thanks for all the advice , I'm not in a hurry so I will get Mr Google on the job

[DieselBoy]

Here's a plus one for the cambelt

My old Defender with a 300tdi motor had a strange history. It was serviced properly and the service records kept in the factory book by the owner that had it before the guy i got it from.

It had a cam belt at 186,000 according to the book, and according to the sticker in the engine bay.

When I showed up to look at it, the current owner started the usual sales pitch by telling me how they go for ever bla bla bla, he brought it with 200,000 odd on the clock and how this motor is great because it doesn't have a cam belt.

No cam belt huh, I thought to myself with a bit of a smirk

Anyway, the guy was a builder, and he was driving it from Te Aroha to Coromandle and back every day, so doing around 220km per day of hot running.

So the last cam belt was done at 168,000km. He had never done one as he thought it didn't have a cam belt.

It had 400,000ks on it when i picked it up. Needless to say i drove it very carefully home, parked it up and didn't drive it again until i had replaced the cambelt

In saying that though, i'm all for the gear driven system if I had a choice, beats chain and belt systems hands down

[TJ]

Jeep 4.0l I6 engine is chain..... Factory manual says to inspect at 400,000 miles (yep, miles).

[Big Kev]

Here's a plus one for the cambelt

My old Defender with a 300tdi motor had a strange history. It was serviced properly and the service records kept in the factory book by the owner that had it before the guy i got it from.

It had a cam belt at 186,000 according to the book, and according to the sticker in the engine bay.

When I showed up to look at it, the current owner started the usual sales pitch by telling me how they go for ever bla bla bla, he brought it with 200,000 odd on the clock and how this motor is great because it doesn't have a cam belt.

No cam belt huh, I thought to myself with a bit of a smirk

Anyway, the guy was a builder, and he was driving it from Te Aroha to Coromandle and back every day, so doing around 220km per day of hot running.

So the last cam belt was done at 168,000km. He had never done one as he thought it didn't have a cam belt.

It had 400,000ks on it when i picked it up. Needless to say i drove it very carefully home, parked it up and didn't drive it again until i had replaced the cambelt

In saying that though, i'm all for the gear driven system if I had a choice, beats chain and belt systems hands down

[3VILC]

I think Id be on the chain side of the fence if I had the choice, as mentioned they both have good and bad points, but at least a chain will usually stretch and rattle and give plenty of warning before anything serious happens. My old Hilux had 250thou when I replaced the noisy chain, chain turned out OK just guides and tensioners worn, kit was probably cheaper than a belt and about as easy to do. Have had a belt snap at less than 60thou looked to be tensioned incorrectly, and have run belts at well over 200thou, so its always a gamble. Of course Nissans gear drive system is fool proof and loved that, I believe it can be found on all the TD variants and the QD32.
My 2c worth

[Big Kev]

I think Id be on the chain side of the fence if I had the choice, as mentioned they both have good and bad points, but at least a chain will usually stretch and rattle and give plenty of warning before anything serious happens. My old Hilux had 250thou when I replaced the noisy chain, chain turned out OK just guides and tensioners worn, kit was probably cheaper than a belt and about as easy to do. Have had a belt snap at less than 60thou looked to be tensioned incorrectly, and have run belts at well over 200thou, so its always a gamble. Of course Nissans gear drive system is fool proof and loved that, I believe it can be found on all the TD variants and the QD32.
My 2c worth

I had a estima van , had the belt changed and new water pump & tensioners, 20000 k's later the belt snapped bent every valve and the motor was worthless, also had a Nissan Laurel which had had the belt replaced or so I was assured 6 months down the track same thing happened , so I am a little bit paranoid of belts. Is there somewhere on this forum that lists all models with chains?

[muddymatt1973]

I see that the new Ford eco-boost motors have a totally inclosed oil lubricated belt to drive cams and another belt to drive oil pump. Both require no adjustment or replacement for the service life of the engine

I wonder what Ford reckon the service life is? 100,000 miles? 200K?

Personally I prefer pushrods, rockers and at least 8 cylinders.

[3VILC]

That was my wife's Holden astra, supposedly you rotate the water pump to align some marks and tension one side then adjust the tensioner on the other side. When I got it apart the marks on the pump were miles out but the manual was adament they had to be aligned so I think it was an improperly installed belt. But yeah, I don't lime trusting them unless its a good old non interference engine. I think belts are generally OK if they are fitted correctly and tensioners and idler pulley bearings replaced. But its too easy for people to say yup its had a belt done when it hasn't, car salesman's favourite line haha.
As for what has what, wikipedia might be your best bet for engine info. Toyota diesels seemed to always prefer belt, Nissans are mostly chain or gear until the zd30 I think, rd28 is belt but if you had a laurel you can appreciate how slow that would be trying to push a heavy ute along haha, others you would have to check specs

[ChurchurDan]

Td27 Td42 and Qd32 are all gear driven Zd30 and yd25 are chain
3.1 and 2.8 isuzu are belts
All toyota diesel are belts
mitsy use a belt
Landrover diesel use a belt but it is fully enclosed and if it breaks they bend pushrods not valves

If you dont want a belt driven engine you dont have many options

[Big Kev]

Td27 Td42 and Qd32 are all gear driven Zd30 and yd25 are chain
3.1 and 2.8 isuzu are belts
All toyota diesel are belts
mitsy use a belt
Landrover diesel use a belt but it is fully enclosed and if it breaks they bend pushrods not valves

If you dont want a belt driven engine you dont have many options

Thanks Dan , that's exactly the type of answer I was looking for, now I can make an informed decision on what to buy and eitherbuy something with the belt done or do it as soon as I buy it
Cheers
Kevin

[DieselBoy]

Land Rover TD5 has a chain and 20,000km service/oil change intervals, 200 and 300Tdi have belts and 5000km service intervals

[churchill]

4M40 (2.8l) and 4M41 (3.2l) Misti diesels use timing chains.

On another note my Focus diesel has a timing belt and the change interval is 150000km!

[zukmeista]

Td27 Td42 and Qd32 are all gear driven Zd30 and yd25 are chain
3.1 and 2.8 isuzu are belts
All toyota diesel are belts
mitsy use a belt
Landrover diesel use a belt but it is fully enclosed and if it breaks they bend pushrods not valves

Mitsubishi 4M40 2.8 is chain driven.
Toyota 'Cruiser 3B, 13BT and 12HT are gear drive.

[Andygoodbloke]

I would rather have a noisy idle of a Nissan chain TD27 than the unreliability of a belt. It is only when at idle and cold, once warm and on the road it is quiet as any other. It is one of the main reasons I chose my Terrano over a Surf, plus better value for money, better paint, the gear box is the weak point in nissan manuals, but that has been overhauled, so all good.

Every Toyota diesel I have owned has had problems with the timing belt, it was replaced and 6 months later the tensioner died (which had been replaced the same time as the belt) resulting in a F*cked motor, plus underpowered 2.4 diesel, and cooling issues.

once bitten, twice shy, 3 times playing with knives, guns and cross bows

[smurf182]

One problem with belts is that backyard mechanics or unscrupulous garages may replace only the belt and not the tensioners/idler pulleys, which is a complete waste of time.

Having said that though chains do elongate and snap after enough miles, so you can't go wrong with a pushrod actuated valvetrain, 3B diesels and small block chevs for the win

[DieselBoy]

One problem with belts is that backyard mechanics or unscrupulous garages may replace only the belt and not the tensioners/idler pulleys, which is a complete waste of time.

Having said that though chains do elongate and snap after enough miles, so you can't go wrong with a pushrod actuated valvetrain, 3B diesels and small block chevs for the win

......all of which still have timing chains which drive the cam shaft, which pushes the push rods

[smurf182]

One problem with belts is that backyard mechanics or unscrupulous garages may replace only the belt and not the tensioners/idler pulleys, which is a complete waste of time.

Having said that though chains do elongate and snap after enough miles, so you can't go wrong with a pushrod actuated valvetrain, 3B diesels and small block chevs for the win

......all of which still have timing chains which drive the cam shaft, which pushes the push rods

Oops.. yeah, I'll meet you halfway... I don't know what I was thinking with respect to the SBC, but the B series diesels I'm sure are gear driven

[DieselBoy]

True, true. And you can also buy a gear set for the SBC's as well

http://www.summitracing.com/int/search/ ... drive-sets