Toyota DPF removal help please

[mudbugga]

Has anyone removed a DPF from a hiace/regius ace yet?

I'm trying to get some info together so that my cuz can remove his. It is going into a burn mode every 1200kms and when it does it goes into a limp home mode. Then he has to take it into his toyota dealer to get sorted. (He's in Napier)
He's tried just unplugging the connectors so far to see if any warning lights come on, and the engine light comes on.

I work for a Toyota dealer in CHCH and TNZ can't (or won't) tell me if there is a way to remove the DPF without the engine light coming on.
Surely there must be a smart cookie out there that has found an easy way of removing the DPF.

[tweake]

i don't know what dpf system its running but i know the navara one.

find what sensors the ecu usues to monitor the DPF. just fit them back on in the stock place on an empty replacement pipe. the one that gets the navara is the oxygen sensor. they seam to get around it by spacing the o2 sensor out a bit to make it give a false reading which tricks the ecu into not going into regen mode.

[kbushnz]

Why cant you do what is done for Cats in petrol cars.
Cut it out of the exhaust...Put in a straight pipe or cherry bomb.
As for the sensor, just remove it from the old section.
Connect it up and tie wrap it somewhere out the way.

Calvin

[Bud]

is this toyotas version of the EGR system.?

this may help.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h37.pdf

[mudbugga]

It's a bit more involved than that unfortunately kbushnz.

Cheers Tweake, that sounds workable. I'll pass that on to him. Cheers.

There are pressure sensors, NOX sensors, and oxygen sensors.
With them unplugged they bring on the engine fault light.
The next step is to see what parameters are occuring on the INTELL tester while its all good, and try and replicate them somehow, or as tweake suggested to trick the ECU.

[mudbugga]

is this toyotas version of the EGR system.?

this may help.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h37.pdf

EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) and DPF (diesel particulate filter) are totally different systems.

That EGR system is for petrol engines, but the principals for the oxygen sensor are similar for the diesel system. Just a few slight differences in operational parameters for the diesel.

[tweake]

It's a bit more involved than that unfortunately kbushnz.

Cheers Tweake, that sounds workable. I'll pass that on to him. Cheers.

There are pressure sensors, NOX sensors, and oxygen sensors.
With them unplugged they bring on the engine fault light.
The next step is to see what parameters are occuring on the INTELL tester while its all good, and try and replicate them somehow, or as tweake suggested to trick the ECU.

Nox sensor ?? thought they where to darn expensive to use.
the ones i know use pressure sensor, temp sensor and o2 sensor.

[mudbugga]

Yup. It's not a simple system. Thankfully we don't see many of them yet. The system is on jap imports at the moment, but the new models coming out soon are supposed to have them as well. Due to our crap fuel they are going to be an ongoing issue in the future.

The guys at TNZ have tried to get around the DPF system somehow, and haven't been successful (so they tell me anyway). But I have heard through the grape vine someone has done it. Just can't track down who it was.

It's a pain being 700 odd k's away from my cuz, so I can't work on it to suss it out. I can only pass on the info I get.

[kbushnz]

Ahh now I understand
Have a look at this link for a quick run down.
http://www.sinspeed.co.uk/blog/tag/toyo ... ems-fixed/

Calvin

[mudbugga]

Ahh now I understand
Have a look at this link for a quick run down.
http://www.sinspeed.co.uk/blog/tag/toyo ... ems-fixed/

Calvin

Cheers Calvin

Read that already. Their system costs 1200 UK pounds. For what I'm not quite sure of, maybe an ECU mod and some pipe??? Sounds rather expensive
Us kiwi's must have found an easier way by now......?

[mudbugga]

Well that place in the UK got back to me within 5mins

This is what they said...
"You must send the ECU to us first so we can reprogram the ECU to run
efficiently without requiring the DPF. Once we reprogram it, then you can
test it to confirm all warning lights and errors are off, then you can
remove the DPF but ECU programming must be completed & tested first.

If you send the ECU to us, we charge £450.00 GBP for this service".

Well that's cheaper than 1200 for the full system but still expensive for just an ECU mod. I wonder what they do........

[tweake]

the problem with rewriting the chip is if it goes back to service agents for a service or recall they can update the ECU programming, which overwrites your rewrite. then you will need to get it reprogrammed yet again.

not a big problem if its out of warranty unless it goes back for a recall.

[mudbugga]

I got more info from them. I asked if I could just replace the ECU with a non DPF type and then remove the DPF and the sensors. They replied......

Unfortunately replacing the ECU with one from a vehicle that has no DPF
from factory will not work due to the ignition/timing and diesel injection
setup being programmed differently. It could work with extensive
programming but will most definitely work out more expensive.

We will reprogram the ECU, removing all traces of the DPF file structure
MANUALLY from the ECU software. This is something most companies do not
do, instead they run it through automated softwares which can pickup up to
90% of DPF file structures but never 100% and that is why many people are
left facing problems, especially when approaching MOT's.

Once the DPF file structure has been removed 100%, we then go on to
fine-tune the Diesel Injection System to ensure it will run efficiently
and this is how we guarantee it will continue to pass an MOT thereafter.

[ganny]

mudbugga,
i faced the same problem. the dpf sensors are causing the engine trouble alarm n subsequently the exhaust flushing alarm to lite up.

wat i've learned from driving my hiace for 3yrs is dat, when doing engine oil change - do not top-up more then 5.3L. shd the high oil level alarm appears b4 the next oil change, you shd immediately get it suck out. coz the oil may get carried over into the exhaust system and cause high soot build-up n thus coating the sensors (front thermal sensor, middle thermal sensor n rear O2 sensor(me not sure is it thermal r O2 or other kind of sensor). therefore the sensors cant detect the actual parameters thus activating the alarms.

if u have the alarms activated and cant remove it even after manual burn/regen, u shd remove the sensors and get it cleaned up. a piece of fine metal sandpaper shd do th trick.

install back the sensors, and do manual burn or regen. until the alarm clears.

if the engine alarm came back on during the regen period, the burn cycle is incomplete n the whole regen process is not successful.
wat u can do next is the "cheat" the sensors but unplugging the wire connectors and using a small piece of wire to short-curcuit the female connectors.

hope this will help. any finding pls shar w me.

rgds
ganny

[ganny]

mudbugga,
i faced the same problem. the dpf sensors are causing the engine trouble alarm n subsequently the exhaust flushing alarm to lite up.

wat i've learned from driving my hiace for 3yrs is dat, when doing engine oil change - do not top-up more then 5.3L. shd the high oil level alarm appears b4 the next oil change, you shd immediately get it suck out. coz the oil may get carried over into the exhaust system and cause high soot build-up n thus coating the sensors (front thermal sensor, middle thermal sensor n rear O2 sensor(me not sure is it thermal or O2 or other kind of sensor). therefore the sensors cant detect the actual parameters thus activating the alarms.

if u have the alarms activated and cant remove it even after manual burn/regen, u shd remove the sensors and get it cleaned up. a piece of fine metal sandpaper shd do th trick.

install back the sensors, and do manual burn or regen. until the alarm clears.

if the engine alarm came back on during the regen period, the burn cycle is incomplete n the whole regen process is not successful.
wat u can do next is the "cheat" the sensors but unplugging the wire connectors and using a small piece of wire to short-curcuit the female connectors.

hope this will help. any finding pls shar w me.

rgds
ganny

[We are Borg]

If it is a reflash of the stock ECU could not any tuner do this ?? I may ask over on Clubsub if any one on there may be able to do it

[mudbugga]

Found out there was a faulty sensor causing the issue.
Once replace all good. His wallet took quite a hit though.

TNZ aren't importing any Hiaces anymore with the DPF as they don't want to deal with the issues that are arising. To be frank they have washed their hands of the DPF problems and don't really want to know.

[mudbugga]

If it is a reflash of the stock ECU could not any tuner do this ?? I may ask over on Clubsub if any one on there may be able to do it

Not a simple task of removing it apparently.
TNZ have tried swapping over everything, and still had issues.
That UK based outfit did a full removal of the programme in the ECU from what I understand, not just a flash.

[crazyclark31]

an interesting thing to note is running 2t oil in your deisel helps reduce the crap deisel issue in nz. Read on a euro forum about it. Basically it makes the fuel burn cleaner which reduces the crap going into the filter and reducing the frequincy it goes into burn mode. Also acts as a lube for the pumps an quietens the injectors way down.
Is quite a bit of reading on the web about it.
Might be a thing to try to reduce this stuff happening more often.

[Cameron]

wouldn't think it'd be too legit on a dpf system to run oil with the fuel. on an old mechanically injected system maybe though....

What oil are people running in these things? if you don't run the right stuff it can block the shit out of the dpf.
pretty horrible really.

[crazyclark31]

is what they use in europe it make the common rail trucks run quieter and smoother in winter and is well documented to increase the clean out periods on dpf systems. will hunt the thread out. it makes for a loonng read though.
Best oil to use is the cheapest stuff you can use. but DO NOT use synthetic oil.
Here you go. this is only some of it but don't want to take over the thread.
to all interested:
due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.


and more :-
You may all know that Mercedes Benz have conducted in 2007 a long distance reliability test with a number of Mercedes E-Class 320 cdi from Paris to Beijing. Due to the fact that the diesel quality in East European Countries, Russia and China does not meet the DIN requirements, and Mercedes did not want to take the risk of their engines to flopp due to lousy fuel, the total tour has been accompanied by diesel tanks to re-fuel the E-Class cdi's. Selected members of the Mercedes clientele could apply to participate in selected parts of this test-tour, and advocats and notaries had to certify the correctness of this long term reliability test.
Although Mercedes does not like it published or made public, it is a fact that the diesel-fuel used for this test did contain 2-stroke oil to grease the high pressure pump components and to keep the engines clean during this marathon.
Why our car manufacturers do not officially allow the homoeophatic addition of 2-stroke oil to the diesel fuel has many reasons, mostly of legal nature. Besides this, which car manufacturer has any interest in excessive reliability of their engines? Their repair shops will have great problems.
Meanwhile the "2-stroke-oil to diesel" issue has attracted the interest of a number of Universities in Germany, as this 2-stroke oil has shown to have amazing poperties if added in a small dosis to diesel fuel (1:200), especially the positive impact on air pollution, reduced fuel consumption and improved long term reliability of the diesel engine. The pro and con discussions will go on for a while. But as soon as an accademic report has been published by one of our Universities, this will change very fast.
By the way: all car manufacturers reject the addition of any fuel "additive" in their cars, and warn that guarantee MAY be affected. Nobody says, that guarantee WILL be rejected. 2-stroke oil in its properties is not an additive, as you add oil to oil if you "dope" you fuel with a dosis of 2-stroke oil. The dosis of 2-stroke oil in your diesel-fuel is very difficult to analyse, as every (chemical) analysis has the main function to identify substances which are harmful. But 2-stroke oil has proven not to be harmful at all, on the contrary!
Personally, I use 2-stroke oil now for many years in all of my diesel cars (my present business car is a Mercedes 320 cdi DPF Automatic). And I never had any problems whatsoever.


.

[slide]

Has anyone removed a DPF from a hiace/regius ace yet?

It is going into a burn mode every 1200kms and when it does it goes into a limp home mode.

1200km- how often do they normally come on at?? (and how long does it take to clear itsself?)

What oil is he using? If its just normal diesel oil then that may be the problem. Try some low ash oil designed for diesels with particulate filter and that may decrease the frequency it comes on.
(I've always been told not to use cheap oil, only that designed for DPF systems)

Interesting read about 2-stroke oil- I'll have to do more read up about it cheers 'crazyclark31'

[mudbugga]

Depends on type of driving, but shouldn't be doing it that often.
No set time/ks, it just does it when it feels like it.
Sensors pick up if there is pressure differences between inlet and outlet of DPF and turns burn on or off depending on that.
Pours heaps of fuel into the engine so exhaust temps get very hot burning off any blockage int the DPF. But a side effect is diesel gets past the rings and makes the engine oil level increase. When it gets too much a level warning light comes on.
If there is a fault, it reduces power hugely and goes into a limp home mode.

A set burn off (controlled by tech using INTELL-II) can take anything from 20mins to 40mins. But a burn when the vehicle does it by itself can be anything from a 10 - 15min operation.

Cuz has only been using a low ash oil (Castrol SLX PRO).
Problem he had was a faulty sensor in the DPF system. It's sweet as now.

I have that article about 2 stroke oil. Gave him a copy as well.
Worth trying if you have any diesel I reckon seeing as this very low sulphur fuel is so crap.
There's another article floating about on the www about using a zinc replacement as well, as modern oils are reducing that in oils now and this is creating issues with cams with high lift.

[Cameron]

they've even reduced the zinc levels in stuff like castrol gtx which is menat to be for older engines
I guess mid 90s is considered old now, though.

[cobra100]

Has anyone removed a DPF from a hiace/regius ace yet?

I'm trying to get some info together so that my cuz can remove his. It is going into a burn mode every 1200kms and when it does it goes into a limp home mode. Then he has to take it into his toyota dealer to get sorted. (He's in Napier)
He's tried just unplugging the connectors so far to see if any warning lights come on, and the engine light comes on.

I work for a Toyota dealer in CHCH and TNZ can't (or won't) tell me if there is a way to remove the DPF without the engine light coming on.
Surely there must be a smart cookie out there that has found an easy way of removing the DPF.

[mudbugga]

As an edit to this thread......

We have just fitted a DPF bypass kit to a Hiace at work from a place in Auckland called Motorsport Electronics.
TNZ has fitted these kits to quite a few Hiace's now.
Very reasonable price for the kit and easy to fit.

A piggy back ECU is wired in and the DPF has to be removed from the exhaust (cut open, smash out DPF, re-weld together).

[We are Borg]

We have just brought a Toyota coaster with DPF and am having endless issues with it throwing a p2002 code ( particulate filter blocked) have done forced burns and still no luck, am thinking it is either a stuffed filter ( it is a new import so could be) or a faulty sensor, am trying to get the test procedure from toyota so I can see if it is a sensor failing that I am thinking of drilling the filter out to see if that fixes it

[Cameron]

you can take the filter out and have them washed out. probably what you need (ash accumulation). would be worth a go.
don't smash the guts out of it. there's a differential pressure sensor which senses a change in pressure between the front and back of it. if you smash it out then it'll just go into limp mode anyways. only way to get rid is to get one of those piggyback computer things.

[lexlux]

http://www.msel.co.nz/epages/motorsport ... iewProduct

[skidmark]

I fitted a piggy back kit we imported from honkong at xmas time. Van has been going good since. not as cheap as that nz kit though.next time we need one will give that one a go!